Official Post Game Thread- Broncos beat the Pats

[SHOWTIME15]

After having a 3rd look at this. It's still hard to tell. Are there more angles? we can't see where the sticks and where the ball is when he first goes down. This play could easily stand. BB only has 40 seconds to make a decision.

Ernie is the guy who normally tells him to challenge. It was such an obvious challenge I thought Belichick gave up at that point...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

 

[Jangles]

You get what you deserve if you spend any time in that cesspool. Mods are not the problem in there.

I don’t know about that

Adults should be able to decide for themselves who they want to engage in a conversation with. And maybe they can. Which is why the moderators should be adults

 

[Wheelman]

Ernie is the guy who normally tells him to challenge. It was such an obvious challenge I thought Belichick gave up at that point...

Same thing, only 40 seconds. Do I think he made it? yeah. Out of those two angles from TV do they have definitive proof of where the ball is when he hits the ground? Nope. That's the problem.

 

[Wheelman]

Already posted, but yeah sucks either way because someone from the QB or WR made the mistake.

 

[203Pat]

Seems like the excuses are piling up from some people. A sentiment of “ehh well we didn’t practice for two weeks” like it’s no big deal. This isn’t your “roll out of bed to 12 wins” Patriots anymore. This is a team that will be in some dogfights against teams that they normally would’ve had wrapped up with 5 minutes to go in the third quarter. They need to figure it out offensively and they need to do it quickly. The sky isn’t falling but to just keep whistling past the graveyard with moral victories and excuses is naive.

 

[sb1]

Already posted, but yeah sucks either way because someone from the QB or WR made the mistake.

Yeah. Who knows...and it doesn’t matter now. On to SF. Hopefully they figure it out.

 

[WHPats]

Since the drafting of Vereen and Ridley in 2011, Bill the GM has drafted exactly ONE impact skill offensive player - James White (2014). That is why we have games like this. There is no guy like a Kamara (3d rd), Diggs (5th rd), Tyreek Hill (5th rd), or Nick Chubb (2d round) who can take a short play and turn it into a 60 yard gain. I include the round in which these guys were drafted because it shows you don't need to find skill players in the first round. We are going on EIGHT DRAFTS without a receiver, tight end, or running back who can change the game - a guy who makes a play in a game like today. A guy who instead of James White taking a 2 yard pass and making a move and getting an extra 5 yards- yippee - can make 2 or 3 moves and turn 5 yard passes into 50 yard touchdowns. It's simply non existent in this offense.

Yeah I totally agree. If you’re going to be lacking some skill position players you need to have terrific line play on offense and defense. The only strength I see from this team is in the defensive backfield. Everything else is mediocre or poor

 

[Jlaff]

Didn't feel like a "bend don't break" defence to me. But the rest is true.

 

[Foxypats]

They better have a good week of practice, hopefully no more shutting down the facility this week and let's get back on track. Last week we got two gifts, from both KC and the Bills with their losses. We needed to capitalize on that this week and could not. Terrible time to have such a let down, SF is not going to be easy !

 

[Jlaff]

Is that PatriotsPimp or something like that? Haven't seen him in awhile.

 

[Ring 6]

I just can't wrap my head around why you think theyre both the same.

Sure you logic makes sense IF that's how it worked but going for it as early as possible to give your self multiple shots because if it fails early it's better than failing late.

The ISSUE IS that that's not how it works statistically. It's literally 50/50 and realistically without looking it up we know that converting a 2 point conversion is way less than that.

So It goes back to my original point. All we ended up doing was creating a two score game and your defense seems simply that it's better to know that for a fact than to just assume it's true. Which to me makes no sense.

I really don’t understand how you can’t get this.
If you are down 9 with 8 1/2 minutes left you play differently than if you are down 7.
Down 15 you have to make a 2 point conversion to make it a really a 2 score game.
if you know with 8 1/2 minutes left you can play those 8 1/2 minutes knowing.

if you don’t convert the 2 pointer it’s a 2 score game whichever way you do it.
my way you know and have 8 1/2 minutes to do something about it. Your way you find out when it’s too late.

Yes if it’s going to be a 2 score game you need to declare that as early as possible so you can play accordingly.
You still seem to have this confusion that when you go for the 2 changes whether you will be successful. That’s ridiculous.

 

[Foxypats]

Kittle is a beast, he will be tough to stop next week.

 

[Ring 6]

I just can't wrap my head around why you think theyre both the same.

Sure you logic makes sense IF that's how it worked but going for it as early as possible to give your self multiple shots because if it fails early it's better than failing late.

The ISSUE IS that that's not how it works statistically. It's literally 50/50 and realistically without looking it up we know that converting a 2 point conversion is way less than that.

So It goes back to my original point. All we ended up doing was creating a two score game and your defense seems simply that it's better to know that for a fact than to just assume it's true. Which to me makes no sense.

You are missing the point that teams down 8 play for one score. Teams down 9 play for 2. Knowing early whether you are getting the 2 or not influences how you play.

 

[WHPats]

Yeah it just seems they’ve whiffed on too many drafts, trades and signings the past few years. So many other teams in the league have at least one or two game-breaking talents on offense, not the Patriots. Guess it’s catching up with them. I’ll put up with a couple lackluster years if they can rebuild this offense

 

[Ring 6]

Seems like the excuses are piling up from some people. A sentiment of “ehh well we didn’t practice for two weeks” like it’s no big deal. This isn’t your “roll out of bed to 12 wins” Patriots anymore. This is a team that will be in some dogfights against teams that they normally would’ve had wrapped up with 5 minutes to go in the third quarter. They need to figure it out offensively and they need to do it quickly. The sky isn’t falling but to just keep whistling past the graveyard with moral victories and excuses is naive.

Most games are going to be streetfights.

Ive still never understood why a fans opinion whether it’s making an excuse, saying the sky is falling or whatever, means anything. Fans being right or wrong about a teams fortunes is relevant to nothing. Someone actually said something here like if we make excuses we can’t have the hard discussions about where this team stands. As if those discussions actually have an impact.

 

[Ring 6]

I just can't wrap my head around why you think theyre both the same.

Sure you logic makes sense IF that's how it worked but going for it as early as possible to give your self multiple shots because if it fails early it's better than failing late.

The ISSUE IS that that's not how it works statistically. It's literally 50/50 and realistically without looking it up we know that converting a 2 point conversion is way less than that.

So It goes back to my original point. All we ended up doing was creating a two score game and your defense seems simply that it's better to know that for a fact than to just assume it's true. Which to me makes no sense.

Collinsworth just explained my exact argument. Al Micheals took the other side with “you just scored, what does it do to you emotionally if you know you need to score twice”. Lol.
As collinsworth said in this case it was under 4 minutes. If you know you need 2 scores then you have to manage 4 minutes differently and maybe you onside kick here.

 

[Chevrolet]

The Patriots simply do not have the talent to blow any team out this year or necessarily to comfortable win any games. So this type of low scoring dogfight, hinging on one or two possessions at the end of the game will be very common. I will keep my expectations within reason and not expect performance seen with the Brady years.

Still not sure, why BB did not try to bring in some veteran help at TE, unless perhaps he really wants to give both rookies serious playing time toward the end of the year and develop them so they will be ready to contribute in a major way for next year.

Obviously the WR situation is also a mess and its reasonable to assume that BB and McDaniels may have overestimated the talent of Harry, a declining Edelman a journeyman Byrd and a try hard Gunner O.

As far as Cam goes, he has been pretty inconsistent for a couple of years now and was only a top tier QB for one year out of his entire time at Carolina. Seattle game was an exception. He is rarely going to put up numbers like Brady and he will throw lots of picks. I think he was intended as a one year gap filler and nothing more.

 

[Ring 6]

The Patriots simply do not have the talent to blow any team out this year or necessarily to comfortable win any games. So this type of low scoring dogfight, hinging on one or two possessions at the end of the game will be very common. I will keep my expectations within reason and not expect performance seen with the Brady years.

Still not sure, why BB did not try to bring in some veteran help at TE, unless perhaps he really wants to give both rookies serious playing time toward the end of the year and develop them so they will be ready to contribute in a major way for next year.

Obviously the WR situation is also a mess and its reasonable to assume that BB and McDaniels may have overestimated the talent of Harry, a declining Edelman a journeyman Byrd and a try hard Gunner O.

As far as Cam goes, he has been pretty inconsistent for a couple of years now and was only a top tier QB for one year out of his entire time at Carolina. Seattle game was an exception. He is rarely going to put up numbers like Brady and he will throw lots of picks. I think he was intended as a one year gap filler and nothing more.

When a team whose talent is to run the ball and play defense plays a game with a rookie LT, it’s LT at LG, it’s LG at C a rookie at RG who moves to RT do another rookie comes in at RG while having 2 of its top 3 DTs out for all or more of the game, it’s not a talent issue it’s an injury issue.

Harry and Edelman came into this game on a 72 catch pace, in a running offense with shaky QB play. Byrd was on a 50+ catch pace. Edelman averaging more ypg than any season of his career other than the injury shortened 2015 season.

You cant judge receiver production based upon a game when the OL made them afraid to throw and then proved why when they did.

 

[thecore762]

Defense even short handed they have been playing hard, offense on the other hand has been out of sync. I don’t know where we will go with this core. The running game has been decent, but the pass game is straight up trash.
Our WR core has been inconsistent and our TE crew has been non existent.
It’s time we invest in some WR/TE next draft, we will need multiple picks because we have had lots of misses in these positions.
Harry hopefully improves, if he is mediocre next year then I don’t see him resigning him after his rookie deal.