Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bengals beat the Pats

[ahmed]

Contorted his body?!? I would love to watch a game through a Mac Jones hater’s eyes to see what they see when the rest of us see reality. Here is the video of Thornton‘s drop. Explain to us how he had to contort his body. I don’t even see him slowing down.

To the rest of the world, this was a good throw by Jones that Thornton dropped.

Oh - I did not realize it was this throw. The entire time I thought we were talking about the hail mary throw.

This was a good throw and Thornton should have caught it. Can't understand how anyone could say anything else. Sure the throw was not perfect but more than good enough to be caught. It hits Thornton's hands withouy him having to do any adjustments that are not table stakes for an NFL WR.

Also I am not a Mac hater. Yes I don't think he is someone we can win a SB with but I don't attack him or unfairly criticise him. Heck I even defended him a few times.

There is a difference between not being a delusional, or to be nicer, a hoplessly optimistic homer and a hater.

It seems that because for 20 years we had no real reason to criticise the team, an entire generation of fans grew up not having a clue that being critical of a team or its QB is normal.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

And if Mac changed the playcall and they didn't score it would be "he's undermining his coaches!"

Blaming the 2nd year QB for not overruling his OC is an odd take.

Anyone who questions the playcall is just stirring the pot or are Pete Carrol fans. With 3 timeouts there was no urgency to score on that play. As many other posters pointed out they wanted to chew some clock before giving up the ball. I can't remember a year where bad calls have had such an impact on wins and losses, the play should have been blown dead. The difference is likely the fact that the margin of victory is so tight that there is no ability to overcome those situations.

 

[Rob0729]

Oh - I did not realize it was this throw. The entire time I thought we were talking about the hail mary throw.

This was a good throw and Thornton should have caught it. Can't understand how anyone could say anything else. Sure the throw was not perfect but more than good enough to be caught. It hits Thornton's hands withouy him having to do any adjustments that are not table stakes for an NFL WR.

Also I am not a Mac hater. Yes I don't think he is someone we can win a SB with but I don't attack him or unfairly criticise him. Heck I even defended him a few times.

There is a difference between not being a delusional, or to be nicer, a hoplessly optimistic homer and a hater.

It seems that because for 20 years we had no real reason to criticise the team, an entire generation of fans grew up not having a clue that being critical of a team or its QB is normal.

I apologize for accusing you of being a hater and being snarky. But your response is something some of the Mac haters on this board would actually say about this play.

Maybe I am wrong about which play we are talking about and you were talking about the right play, but based on the other poster's comments about Thornton having to slow down because the pass was so far behind him, I dout it was a Hail Mary play.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

He threw a ball like 50 yards down the field that hit the WR in the hands. What else can you ask for in that type of throw? But because he would've been tackled it's bad?

If we are really going to nitpick and use that throw to disparage Mac some of you have serious issues here.

It's the receivers job to make catches tough or not. And a ball that hits you in your breadbasket is a catch any NFL receiver should make.

We are not nitpicking, even though you might feel that way. Mac has 9 TDs and 8 Ints. Not a good year, and that is not nitpicking. I hope and think Mac will be better in 2023, and I hope he continues to improve the last two games.

Mac needs to see the field faster and step into his throws. The same thing happened on that Thornton pass. Why wait until it is a 50 yard pass when Thornton beat his man all the way? Throw the ball at 20 to 30 yards.

The exciting part is Thornton is starting to smoke guys, and Mac and Thornton will both get better. Having said that, Mac has to get better.

 

[ahmed]

I apologize for accusing you of being a hater and being snarky. But your response is something some of the Mac haters on this board would actually say about this play.

Maybe I am wrong about which play we are talking about and you were talking about the right play, but based on the other poster's comments about Thornton having to slow down because the pass was so far behind him, I dout it was a Hail Mary play.

Np. This pass was not behind him though. Just a little bit inside and should be caught everytime. Nobody could rationally say otherwise.

I thought we were talking about last pass to Thornton as that was behind. Called it hail mary as it was last play and we needed a long TD.

 

[RIpats88]

We are not nitpicking, even though you might feel that way. Mac has 9 TDs and 8 Ints. Not a good year, and that is not nitpicking. I hope and think Mac will be better in 2023, and I hope he continues to improve the last two games.

Mac needs to see the field faster and step into his throws. The same thing happened on that Thornton pass. Why wait until it is a 50 yard pass when Thornton beat his man all the way? Throw the ball at 20 to 30 yards.

The exciting part is Thornton is starting to smoke guys, and Mac and Thornton will both get better. Having said that, Mac has to get better.

No one can argue he hasn't been good this year. And that is not what I'm saying. Mac does have to get better and I'm hoping with a real OC calling plays and not burying your best playmaker (Bourne) Mac can get more back to who he was last year than this year.

I just think that's an odd play to pick to criticize him on. It wasn't a bad pass. Hit Thornton in the hands. We could criticize any deep pass that doesn't go for a TD by any QB if we start to go "well he should've thrown it farther" or "he should've thrown it sooner".

If a deep pass hits you in the hands and you don't catch it that is the receivers fault.

There are a number of other passes people could choose to criticize on. Like missing guys in the first half.

I think it's just an odd play to criticize. When it clearly was a drop by Thornton

 

[Rob0729]

Some random thoughts about this game:

1.) This game showed the #1 problem with this offense this year is Matt Patricia and #2 isn't even close: The Pats came into this game with a criminally predictable and conservative offense literally scripting the drives as run, run, pass. It was even more conservative and predictable than usually but indicative of how the Pats called the offense all year.

I think this play shows the ineptitude of Patricia. The first drive of the game and the Pats are at 3rd and 4. Patricia calls a passing play where all the receivers except on goes down the field and leaves Jones no options to throw to the sticks to pick up an easy first down.



In the second half when the Pats went into desperation mode, Patricia went against all his base instincts. First, he finally let Bourne out of the doghouse and let him show the world that he is still the Patriots' best receiver and that he has been buried by Patricia's pettiness. Second, he took the reigns off the offense and, although far from perfect, it showed the Pats could have had a real offense this season where they could actually score 25-30 points if they had to in some games.

2.) I love Stevenson, but this is two games in a row where he tried to do too much at the end of the game and it ended up costing them the game. I still put a lot of the blame on the coaching for the lateral debacle last week, but yesterday was 100% on Rham. It was first and goal with plenty of time left and the Pats having all their time outs if needed. The Pats didn't need to score on that play. Actually not scoring on that play could have worked to their advantage to not give Burrow enough time to come back if the Pats scored a TD. Just go down and move onto the next play.

3.) I loved how the team fought back in the second half, but it doesn't excuse the disaster of first half they had. No one in any aspect of the team remotely came to play in the first half.

4.) I know the Patriots were significantly short handed at CB, but putting Marcus Jones on Chase was a receipt for disaster. Jones is just way too short.

5.) I gotta wonder if Troy Brown is a good coach or not. I still look at the receiving corp and they are still looking confused on plays and I wonder if Thornton is being developed correctly. The receivers have gotten a free pass this season because everyone is pointing fingers at Patricia or Jones or even the o-line for the problems, but the receivers have had major issues all year too.

 

[GaryfromTO]

I remember a Pats regular season game from 1985 when they only reached midfield once the entire game and that was on a Craig James 75 yard TD run. The Pats ended up meeting that team in the SB that year and were the only team to score a point against them in the playoffs. That was the 85 Bears.

True, but the 85 Pats were a great team. Only the Bears were a juggernaut on defense that season. Can't even compare the 22 Patriots to that team.

 

[GaryfromTO]

Some random thoughts about this game:

1.) This game showed the #1 problem with this offense this year is Matt Patricia and #2 isn't even close: The Pats came into this game with a criminally predictable and conservative offense literally scripting the drives as run, run, pass. It was even more conservative and predictable than usually but indicative of how the Pats called the offense all year.

I think this play shows the ineptitude of Patricia. The first drive of the game and the Pats are at 3rd and 4. Patricia calls a passing play where all the receivers except on goes down the field and leaves Jones no options to throw to the sticks to pick up an easy first down.



In the second half when the Pats went into desperation mode, Patricia went against all his base instincts. First, he finally let Bourne out of the doghouse and let him show the world that he is still the Patriots' best receiver and that he has been buried by Patricia's pettiness. Second, he took the reigns off the offense and, although far from perfect, it showed the Pats could have had a real offense this season where they could actually score 25-30 points if they had to in some games.

2.) I love Stevenson, but this is two games in a row where he tried to do too much at the end of the game and it ended up costing them the game. I still put a lot of the blame on the coaching for the lateral debacle last week, but yesterday was 100% on Rham. It was first and goal with plenty of time left and the Pats having all their time outs if needed. The Pats didn't need to score on that play. Actually not scoring on that play could have worked to their advantage to not give Burrow enough time to come back if the Pats scored a TD. Just go down and move onto the next play.

3.) I loved how the team fought back in the second half, but it doesn't excuse the disaster of first half they had. No one in any aspect of the team remotely came to play in the first half.

4.) I know the Patriots were significantly short handed at CB, but putting Marcus Jones on Chase was a receipt for disaster. Jones is just way too short.

5.) I gotta wonder if Troy Brown is a good coach or not. I still look at the receiving corp and they are still looking confused on plays and I wonder if Thornton is being developed correctly. The receivers have gotten a free pass this season because everyone is pointing fingers at Patricia or Jones or even the o-line for the problems, but the receivers have had major issues all year too.

Well, it's an improvement. Usually on 3rd and 4, Patricia would call a play where they throw for a yd behind the line of scrimage and lose ground.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

No one can argue he hasn't been good this year. And that is not what I'm saying. Mac does have to get better and I'm hoping with a real OC calling plays and not burying your best playmaker (Bourne) Mac can get more back to who he was last year than this year.

I just think that's an odd play to pick to criticize him on. It wasn't a bad pass. Hit Thornton in the hands. We could criticize any deep pass that doesn't go for a TD by any QB if we start to go "well he should've thrown it farther" or "he should've thrown it sooner".

If a deep pass hits you in the hands and you don't catch it that is the receivers fault.

There are a number of other passes people could choose to criticize on. Like missing guys in the first half.

I think it's just an odd play to criticize. When it clearly was a drop by Thornton

I agree with what you said, but Mac plays too slowly . His passes are commonly late and do not lead the receiver. Mac is great in the short game, but needs to speed up in the long game. That pass to Thornton is an example. Q: Why wait to throw a 50 yard pass when Thornton was open at 20 to 30 yards. A: Because Mac plays too slowly. The game is still too fast for Mac right now.

Having said that this was a great bounce back game after the Raiders debacle. I was really discouraged after the Raiders game, but Mac was not only better this game, he improved too. I think the game will slow down for Mac in 2023. Also very glad his immature on field outbursts stopped. I was too optimistic for Mac in 2022, so I hope Mac improves a lot these last two games and next season.

 

[turkeyneck]

The way that contract was structured is offensive to me. Knowing that they were going to lose him to a suspension they put 229 of the 230 mil after the first year. That had to be done with the blessing of Goody & the 32.

I was originally a Browns fan before the Pats were born and have rooted for them over the years. Not any more. Not enough bad things can happen to them to suit me now.

These Browns are not the Browns you are looking for.

 

[turkeyneck]

Contorted his body?!? I would love to watch a game through a Mac Jones hater’s eyes to see what they see when the rest of us see reality. Here is the video of Thornton‘s drop. Explain to us how he had to contort his body. I don’t even see him slowing down.

To the rest of the world, this was a good throw by Jones that Thornton dropped.

That's a catch he made all the time at Baylor. It almost looks like he had a fleeting thought as the ball arrived "I'm gonna hurt my shoulder when I land" and lost focus.

 

[SVN]

Bourne played great.But the issue with him is he hasnt been consistent all game or all season. Yeah he showed flashes.But put him out there all game next week,he will drop some balls, miss an assignment, stand in the wrong alignment. etc.
We are saying patricia calls the most basic offense which is true. But these guys cant line up and play even the basic stuff. i read somewhere today that pats tackles were the most penalized in the league. How can that happen ?
There is no focus or mental toughnes on this side. They miss Josh McDaniels , not the playcaller but the leader of that group to get them in a circle and give them a whopping. Patricia has no cache or goodwill to do that. Any new OC too will be the same, unless Mac looks up to him too.

 

[turkeyneck]

Some random thoughts about this game:

1.) This game showed the #1 problem with this offense this year is Matt Patricia and #2 isn't even close: The Pats came into this game with a criminally predictable and conservative offense literally scripting the drives as run, run, pass. It was even more conservative and predictable than usually but indicative of how the Pats called the offense all year.

I think this play shows the ineptitude of Patricia. The first drive of the game and the Pats are at 3rd and 4. Patricia calls a passing play where all the receivers except on goes down the field and leaves Jones no options to throw to the sticks to pick up an easy first down.

5.) I gotta wonder if Troy Brown is a good coach or not. I still look at the receiving corp and they are still looking confused on plays and I wonder if Thornton is being developed correctly. The receivers have gotten a free pass this season because everyone is pointing fingers at Patricia or Jones or even the o-line for the problems, but the receivers have had major issues all year too.

I saddens me to agree that Troy is not getting it done. WR coaching is on a par with OL coaching this year.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree with what you said, but Mac plays too slowly . His passes are commonly late and do not lead the receiver. Mac is great in the short game, but needs to speed up in the long game. That pass to Thornton is an example. Q: Why wait to throw a 50 yard pass when Thornton was open at 20 to 30 yards. A: Because Mac plays too slowly. The game is still too fast for Mac right now.

Having said that this was a great bounce back game after the Raiders debacle. I was really discouraged after the Raiders game, but Mac was not only better this game, he improved too. I think the game will slow down for Mac in 2023. Also very glad his immature on field outbursts stopped. I was too optimistic for Mac in 2022, so I hope Mac improves a lot these last two games and next season.

Last year the knock on Jones was he was too quick. Now he is too slow?

And are you going to blame Jones for throwing a ball that hits a wide open Thornton in stride fifty yards down the field because Thornton dropped it? If Jones can hit Thornton in stride fifty yards down the field rather than 20-30, why not wait for the 50 yards? It is easier to score a TD from ten yards away from the end zone than 30-40 yards. Of all the things to blame Jones on. Jones did nothing wrong on that play.

And do you really think that Jones is too slow to react to a player who has already ran 20-30 yards down the field? Even the worst QB in NFL history can process information faster than that.

 

[SVN]

Some random thoughts about this game:

1.) This game showed the #1 problem with this offense this year is Matt Patricia and #2 isn't even close: The Pats came into this game with a criminally predictable and conservative offense literally scripting the drives as run, run, pass. It was even more conservative and predictable than usually but indicative of how the Pats called the offense all year.

I think this play shows the ineptitude of Patricia. The first drive of the game and the Pats are at 3rd and 4. Patricia calls a passing play where all the receivers except on goes down the field and leaves Jones no options to throw to the sticks to pick up an easy first down.



In the second half when the Pats went into desperation mode, Patricia went against all his base instincts. First, he finally let Bourne out of the doghouse and let him show the world that he is still the Patriots' best receiver and that he has been buried by Patricia's pettiness. Second, he took the reigns off the offense and, although far from perfect, it showed the Pats could have had a real offense this season where they could actually score 25-30 points if they had to in some games.

2.) I love Stevenson, but this is two games in a row where he tried to do too much at the end of the game and it ended up costing them the game. I still put a lot of the blame on the coaching for the lateral debacle last week, but yesterday was 100% on Rham. It was first and goal with plenty of time left and the Pats having all their time outs if needed. The Pats didn't need to score on that play. Actually not scoring on that play could have worked to their advantage to not give Burrow enough time to come back if the Pats scored a TD. Just go down and move onto the next play.

3.) I loved how the team fought back in the second half, but it doesn't excuse the disaster of first half they had. No one in any aspect of the team remotely came to play in the first half.

4.) I know the Patriots were significantly short handed at CB, but putting Marcus Jones on Chase was a receipt for disaster. Jones is just way too short.

5.) I gotta wonder if Troy Brown is a good coach or not. I still look at the receiving corp and they are still looking confused on plays and I wonder if Thornton is being developed correctly. The receivers have gotten a free pass this season because everyone is pointing fingers at Patricia or Jones or even the o-line for the problems, but the receivers have had major issues all year too.

Yes rhamondre has dropped the ball literally in the last 2 games . its quite unreal. But not sure why pats kept calling 5-6 running plays with the same back who is also getting worn out. At some point he was bound to lose steam. This team isnt good to milk the clock and score. They can barely even score. Thats what they shouldve tried.

The WRs are not very consistent. They are all over the place. it can be coaching or it can be checked out with the coaching.
The other issue with the game, how poor was pass protection on the blitz. Free rusher everytime . Fact that we completed a few hail marys from 3rd and longs hide those issues.

 

[Rob0729]

Bourne played great.But the issue with him is he hasnt been consistent all game or all season. Yeah he showed flashes.But put him out there all game next week,he will drop some balls, miss an assignment, stand in the wrong alignment. etc.
We are saying patricia calls the most basic offense which is true. But these guys cant line up and play even the basic stuff. i read somewhere today that pats tackles were the most penalized in the league. How can that happen ?
There is no focus or mental toughnes on this side. They miss Josh McDaniels , not the playcaller but the leader of that group to get them in a circle and give them a whopping. Patricia has no cache or goodwill to do that. Any new OC too will be the same, unless Mac looks up to him too.

Every WR on this team has had the issues you are talking about with Bourne. A lot of that goes to the coaching.

But in Bourne's defense, he isn't seeing the field enough and that could be playing with his consistency. If he is only seeing the field a handful of plays a game, it is hard to get into a rhythm.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Imagine if Bledsoe hadn't got himself hurt.

We could be sitting at zero Super Bowls today.

Belichick would have 2 rings and that would be because he had a guy named Lawrence Taylor in charge of his defense and the head coach was Bill Parcells.....It would take a ton of convincing for me to belive overall that Bill Parcells is not a better head coach than Belichick ..Parcells and his drafting skills especially on defense began the dynasty in the 1st 2 SBs, its not debatable that the defense was the difference in winning and losing with Brady as the piece of the puzzle that was missing.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Last year the knock on Jones was he was too quick. Now he is too slow?

And are you going to blame Jones for throwing a ball that hits a wide open Thornton in stride fifty yards down the field because Thornton dropped it? If Jones can hit Thornton in stride fifty yards down the field rather than 20-30, why not wait for the 50 yards? It is easier to score a TD from ten yards away from the end zone than 30-40 yards. Of all the things to blame Jones on. Jones did nothing wrong on that play.

And do you really think that Jones is too slow to react to a player who has already ran 20-30 yards down the field? Even the worst QB in NFL history can process information faster than that.

You are very sensitive. 9 TDs and 8 Ints indicates something is wrong. Think about it. Let's hope it all improves. Merry Christmas .

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

The Pats were two lucky plays away from getting humiliated! The offense is a joke. Mac Jones does not have a clutch bone in his body.

Time after time, he is presented with an opportunity to lead a game winning drive, and he has NEVER done it! Two years, zero game winning drives!

Before you blame the play calling, you have to realize that the QB has the ability to read the defenses and adjust protection and plays. Mac seems to be making adjustments all the time, they just don't seem to work.

Still the Pats should have won that game. I think the play calling at the end was more about making sure that they didn't leave any time left on the clock, than picking the right play.

Much like my MIL getting drunk and passing out in my bathroom, it has become a yearly tradition to watch this team melt down at the end of the season.

its hard to have a clutch bone in your body when Mac got injured that one game and cried like a schoolgirl on the way to the locker room,In all my years and decades of watching the NFL I have yet to see ANY player get injured like that and cry like a little b*tch like he did,that alone told me he is not mature enough to ever be a long term starter in this league.