Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise

[Sicilian]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

there will always be a set of circumstances where if things happen a certain way, it doesn't fall in order.......it happens......the only real solution to this is to not have divisions and just have the top 6 teams go.........problem with that is that it is lousy when it comes to marketing and the league as a whole......if it wasn't for the 2 worst records in the playoffs, there would not be a single team from west of the mississippi in the playoffs...........I think as a league, they will accept something like this happening once every 20 years over the idea of half the country losing interest in pro football.......I don't like it either, but understand why things like this happen once in a while and move on

Again, my argument has never been that I think they will/should change it. Doesn't mean I have to like it. And I don't, not just because it happened to my team, because I find it an unfortunate side effect of the business of sports taking precedence over the spirit of deciding who is the best in the game for a given year.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

Sicilian

The Charges played KC and Oakland twice. We played them once while also playing Seattle and St Louis. This reminds me of last year when thew 16-0 record was "tainted" by Miami, the Jets, and Buffalo.

I would also point out how much we talked about 4 west coast games. SD did come to the east coast 4 times and went to London.

The schedule and rules are what they are. Nobody changed them mid year and everyone has schedule issues.

If we want to complain, the opponent who played the Thursday before is very legit and it would be nice for the league to explain.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

no......you'd have no problem with the pats going to the playoffs at 8-8 while the chargers stayed home at 11-5........

the chargers had to play the AFC west for 6 games and the NFC south for 4 games..........6 'easy' games ..... the pats had to play the AFC west for 4 games and the NFC west for 4 games .... 8 'easy' games.......

you're just complaining because the setup in its current state worked against your team ....... like I said, I wouldn't be saying 'boo' if the jets had won and there were 2 10 win teams sitting at home while an 8 win team went......admit as much

Uh, wait a second, your math needs some reworking.

You're counting the division winning San Diego team as an easy game?

When you count these games, you can't use the teams being compared in the equation. If we're counting the Chargers, then we might as well count the Patriots.

The Patriots had 3 easy games against the AFC West, not 4. And if you're going to count Arizona as an easy game, then you also have to count Tampa and New Orleans as any easy game.

Using your method the Chargers had 6 easy games in division, plus 2 easy games against the NFC South.

The Patriots had 3 easy games against the AFC West, plus 4 easy games against the NFC West.

Regardless, it seems both teams had comparable amounts of easy games.

In the end, New England finished 3 games better.

Then you wrote this head scratcher:

like I said, I wouldn't be saying 'boo' if the jets had won and there were 2 10 win teams sitting at home while an 8 win team went......admit as much

We are talking about 11-5 versus 8-8, not 10-6 versus 8-8. There's a difference there, and it's easy to understand. No team has ever won 11 games since the expanded playoffs and missed the postseason.

That's the difference.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

Sicilian

The Charges played KC and Oakland twice. We played them once while also playing Seattle and St Louis. This reminds me of last year when thew 16-0 record was "tainted" by Miami, the Jets, and Buffalo.

I would also point out how much we talked about 4 west coast games. SD did come to the east coast 4 times and went to London.

The schedule and rules are what they are. Nobody changed them mid year and everyone has schedule issues.

If we want to complain, the opponent who played the Thursday before is very legit and it would be nice for the league to explain.

It's just my opinion, nothing more. I think we had a tougher schedule, or at the very least had an equally difficult schedule. We win three more games (which would equate to 30 more games in baseball or 15 more games in hockey or basketball) and we're at home because of how the divisions are aligned.

It is what it is, I'm not saying it's going to change. All I'm arguing is under these systems (which comprise all pro sports), the best teams don't always make it. I don't think that's the way it should be.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

Again, my argument has never been that I think they will/should change it. Doesn't mean I have to like it. And I don't, not just because it happened to my team, because I find it an unfortunate side effect of the business of sports taking precedence over the spirit of deciding who is the best in the game for a given year.

did I say I liked it? did I say you should like it?

it is what it is, and maybe if gaffney didn't punt a ball while trying to catch a certain TD pass, this whole thing is pointless......or maybe if david thomas didn't act like an idiot at the wrong time or if cassel would always be watching his OC for the snap, this whole thing would be a non-issue

while the pats are worthy of being in the playoffs this year, they managed to earn a spot on the couch on their own

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

while the pats are worthy of being in the playoffs this year, they managed to earn a spot on the couch on their own

This statement is contradictory. If you're worthy of being in, you didn't earn an early exit on your own. Something else must have happened, and that's where the system is flawed.

 

[upstater1]

Here's the thing we have to understand: division winner is the system we have now, but it's not defensible under every situation. GodintheGreyHoodie did an analysis in which he showed it would be possible to win your division witha 3-13 record. Obviously, no one wants to defend that record as being deserving. In the late 1990s, the NFC South had a team that was about to go into the playoffs with a losing record. So even though I agree with most that the division system is something worth keeping, there needs to be a qualifier somewhere in there that doesn't allow things to become truly absurd, such as 11 win teams getting shut out while teams with losing records getting in. It would be easy to do. If you're a losing team, and a team with a 10-6 record is about to get shut out from the playoffs, then you lose your slot.

One way to fix the situation to add a 7th playoff team, giving only 1 bye.

This has the added benefit of preventing the team with the second bye from tanking their final game.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

This statement is contradictory. If you're worthy of being in, you didn't earn an early exit on your own. Something else must have happened, and that's where the system is flawed.

no its not.....there are plenty of instance where 'playoff-caliber' teams miss the playoffs.......if the pats were 11-4 going into week 17 and they're playing the colts and they lose because gaffney kicks a ball he should have caught, then they missed the playoffs because of a mistake........

the system is not flawed.........you just don't like how it worked out......this time

 

[Fencer]

The "2 months" figure is hard to justify by actual arithmetic.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

Then you wrote this head scratcher:

We are talking about 11-5 versus 8-8, not 10-6 versus 8-8. There's a difference there, and it's easy to understand. No team has ever won 11 games since the expanded playoffs and missed the postseason.

That's the difference.

talk about splitting hairs to serve your purpose........if the pats were 10-6, you'd be raising the same issue

 

[Bostonian1962]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

Once again, other than linebacks, do we actually have an aging defense? D-Line is young and good and 2ndary is young and getting there. I guess Rosie, Junior, Bru, and Vrabs somehow make everyone else collectively old?

I agree with you completely! I would expect there is a very good chance that the teams' old players (the aforementioned Rosie, Junior, Bru, and Vrabs) will with the exception of Vrabs be retiring. That, by definition, makes the team even younger, because their replacements will be younger, perhaps drastically so. I think this team will be the favorite next year, barring some unforseen bad news.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

talk about splitting hairs to serve your purpose........if the pats were 10-6, you'd be raising the same issue

No, I wouldn't. An extra win or loss for the Patriots makes this conversation moot both ways. That's how important a win is, and it makes all the difference.

The question is, would YOU still be making your argument if the Patriots had been 12-4 and missed the playoffs (which could have happened easily if, say, the pats beat the Jets, and Walt Coleman didn't overturn the call on the field in the Steelers game, and if the Phins hadn't let Matt Schaub score on a desperation scramble with 2 seconds left)?

 

[neuronet]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

Meanwhile, a Chargers team that went 8-8 gets to HOST a playoff game. And what do we get? A worse draft pick than them to boot.

Phoenix is what pisses me off. The Chargers kicked our ass. Having a higher draft pick than us sucks, but what system would work better? We were in one of the better divisions in the NFL this year, yet still managed to go 11-5. Kudos to us, BB is God and will figure out a way to bring us to the playoffs next year.

 

[vandergraafgenerator]

Well of course making the playoffs would be exciting, BUT... over the past 5 years or so, the Patriots have had to play 2 additional months of football than most of the NFL.

And although it stinks to not be in the playoffs with an 11-5 record, which one year gave us the bye, it also means that we have a HIGHLY successfull football team by NFL standards that gets an additional 2 months to rest and regroup for next season.

And let's face it, when Brady went down, no one event expected to be in this position, when brady went down we expected to be out of the playoffs...

Now all our aging Defense gets another 2 months of rest, our coaches, and all those connected to the team gets a little extra rest they very well deserve.

Which hopefully translates into a powerful rested team come 2009 season.

2 months?? where does that come from. 5 weeks'ish to be honest.
The pro bowlers will still go to Hawaii whether we're in the play-offs or not.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

no its not.....there are plenty of instance where 'playoff-caliber' teams miss the playoffs.......if the pats were 11-4 going into week 17 and they're playing the colts and they lose because gaffney kicks a ball he should have caught, then they missed the playoffs because of a mistake........

the system is not flawed.........you just don't like how it worked out......this time

No, I don't like how it works out ANYTIME. I didn't like that that the Bucs got to host the Giants last year. I like the Bucs a heck of a lot more than I like the Giants, and it worked out just fine for the G-men, but I still think it's silly that a team with a better record had to go on the road.

You keep trying to turn this into a "bitter Pats fan" argument, and I'm telling you, I've been saying this is my opinion since I started watching sports as a child. Divisions just never made sense to me from a competition stand point. From a business standpoint, I get it, but from a competitive one they are just silly.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

No, I don't like how it works out ANYTIME. I didn't like that that the Bucs got to host the Giants last year. I like the Bucs a heck of a lot more than I like the Giants, and it worked out just fine for the G-men, but I still think it's silly that a team with a better record had to go on the road.

You keep trying to turn this into a "bitter Pats fan" argument, and I'm telling you, I've been saying this is my opinion since I started watching sports as a child. Divisions just never made sense to me from a competition stand point. From a business standpoint, I get it, but from a competitive one they are just silly.

competitiveness and business run hand in hand........if you don't have the former, you go out of the latter..........

its not about being bitter......its about complaining about something that's been in place all along and has had the potential for happening when it worked against your team

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

competitiveness and business run hand in hand........if you don't have the former, you go out of the latter..........

its not about being bitter......its about complaining about something that's been in place all along and has had the potential for happening when it worked against your team

In the real world I agree. That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to find a way to have both pure competition AND successful business. Blindly accepting that one must be flawed to enable the other without considering other options is how progress gets slowed.

Second, I can see you simply do not believe that I've always been against this system, even before it ever affected a team I root for. I don't blame you, why would you believe me, you don't know me. So I'll leave the argument at that. We're not going to convince each other, so I'm done trying.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

Not many of these players have been on the Patriots for each of this string of playoff seasons.

Our aging defense also gets a year older on top of this two month rest.

I expected this team was capable of making the playoffs. So I am not part of everyone.

Missing the playoffs is never a good thing. I know you're looking for a silver lining, but there isn't one. This stinks.

I wish people would stop claiming that an aging defense is a bad thing. First of all, this year the defense started with only 4 starters over the age of 31. Most of their back-ups were less than 26 years of age. I don't call that an AGING defense.

The Patriots have a good mix of young and old with the older seeing less duty than the younger as the year went on (mainly due to injury). Granted, the Pats had to bring back Colvin and Seau, but that was because of the large number of injuries they suffered at the LBer position.

I'd love to see them bring in a 4-5 year vet who can play at safety or OLB who would be an upgrade. But I am not sure that is gonna happen unless the Pats luck out with a Sean Jones type player.

Defenses are always aging. Teams are always "aging". Its part of human life. Many times, an aging team gets BETTER. For instance, Mayo, Guyton, Redd, Wilhite and Meriwether all got better as they aged through this year. That is a POSITIVE. Wood, was getting better also. Both in the time he spent in the nickel and the very short time he saw as the starting OLB before having his jaw busted.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

I wish people would stop claiming that an aging defense is a bad thing. First of all, this year the defense started with only 4 starters over the age of 31. Most of their back-ups were less than 26 years of age. I don't call that an AGING defense.

The Patriots have a good mix of young and old with the older seeing less duty than the younger as the year went on (mainly due to injury). Granted, the Pats had to bring back Colvin and Seau, but that was because of the large number of injuries they suffered at the LBer position.

I'd love to see them bring in a 4-5 year vet who can play at safety or OLB who would be an upgrade. But I am not sure that is gonna happen unless the Pats luck out with a Sean Jones type player.

Defenses are always aging. Teams are always "aging". Its part of human life. Many times, an aging team gets BETTER. For instance, Mayo, Guyton, Redd, Wilhite and Meriwether all got better as they aged through this year. That is a POSITIVE. Wood, was getting better also. Both in the time he spent in the nickel and the very short time he saw as the starting OLB before having his jaw busted.

I agree with you. My post was implying more that if an extra month off was going to aid older players, then being a year older was going to impede them just as much. It was a comment on his comment, not on the actual age of the defense itself.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Not making the playoffs, blessing in disguise.

upstater

You are missing the point. The Chargers won the division. We did lose to them. You can't say someone the Pats lost to have a less legit playoff claim because they won the division with an inferior record.

I think that you are missing the point. I can say that the Chargers have a less legitimate claim to a play-off berth because they finished 8-8 while the Pats finished 11-5. Why? Because 11 wins beats 8 wins every time.

There are 2 things currently flawed in the NFL. One is the sudden death OT. Play out the entire 15 minutes. The other is how they figure the play-offs.

I like Sicilian's idea, though I'd take it a step further. Keep the divisions, but only for the sake of creating the schedules. The top 2 teams in each conference get a 1st week bye. The next 4 spots in each conference are figured out record. And if it so happens that one "division" is so strong that it ends up with 4 teams in the top 6, so be it.

People want to see the best. An 8-8 team is mediocre and clearly not the best the league has to offer. Its a slap in the face to ALL fans to put an inferior product on the field.