N'Keal on the block?

[Jangles]

I bet if Bill packaged Harry and a 3rd round pick he could probably get some teams 6th round pick in the 2025 draft

do it

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

While Jones and HT are one of my favorite picks on D post 2007, Gronk took the TE position to another level and opened up the field for other players who weren't exactly world beaters. Again, this is a guy who made plays year round and was the most dominating TE the NFL has seen in many, many years. Without him, the offense would've competed, but would probably find a way to fall short in big games which they did when he wasn't around (2016 being an anomaly).

Jones and HT didn't dominate like Gronk did and HT was in position to make that key tackle in the Super Bowl because of Gronk (He came up big in 2016 as well even though Gronk wasn't there).

Agreed. Gronk is most likely the best pick excluding 12 but it's not so much about how dominating a player is but the pick, no?

Like a healthy Gronk would have went top 10. Definitely credit to Bill for taking the gamble though. Jones was a lot more of a project coming out. Well known but he really needed to put some stuff together before he was the guy we see today.

Gronk is tough to argue with though. Again for 5-6 years he was top 10-20 overall. Defensive players, QB's ... He was as dominant as anyone.

That's one example, but that probably wouldn't have been the norm. They don't win without him in 2014, there's no comeback against Denver without him in 2015, Pats get a beatdown without him in 2017, he sets up the game winning TD in 2018. His presence was a game changer. Not to mention they lost in 2011 with a hobbled Gronk and 2012 when he wasn't available. That's 6 opportunities right there. That was Pats have made it far without talent like Gronk, but it usually ends with them coming up short somehow. To downplay Gronk's importance is asinine.

 

[Username]

Some talk amongst Cardinals fans that they're in for him, and they want a straight swap for Andy Isabella. Who is someone a lot of us wanted to draft and seems more a fit for what we do.

 

[DarrylS]

Harry cap hit in '21 $2.7 million and '22 $3.2 million are nothing to scoff at...

Difficult to give up a player with such a small cap hit..

 

[TomPatriot]

Even if we ride the Cam express again....I'd like to see if Harry can't get better. The guy has caught passes from 4 different QB's...one of whom that just doesn't trust rookies.

If he’s processing on the field and still can’t run routes effectively, forget it. He can run fades and that’s it. But I’d give him another chance because I don’t really want a low future pick for him.

 

[moosekill]

Stop excusing Harry's ****ty play, and stop blaming that ****ty play on the QBs. Excusing that ****ty play, and blaming the QBs for that ****ty play, doesn't help the player, and it makes you look like ridiculous.

Complete and total bs deus, and you know it. Cam sucked, I know you are still on your I am leaving this board as soon as Brady is gone crap, and are just here to stir things up, but anyone who expects to be able to judge any wr based upon how historically bad Cam was last year should lose their posting privileges' and be forced to post on the Tompa Bay forum. And regardless of your HAWT TAKE, I am still not saying Harry is any good, but many of you just have your agendas to rip BB about this and that. Football isn't baseball, it is really a team sport, if your qb can't throw you can't catch, if your o-line cant block your rb's can't run, if your d-line cant get a pass rush, your d-backs are going to get beat eventually. That is how this freaking game works. Harry was widely predicted to go where he went, late 1st early 2nd. All the draft god's some of you pray too had him there. Suddenly saying he sucked and we all knew Bill blew the pick when it happened is complete and total revisionary bs.

 

[Deus Irae]

Complete and total bs deus, and you know it. Cam sucked, I know you are still on your I am leaving this board as soon as Brady is gone crap, and are just here to stir things up, but anyone who expects to be able to judge any wr based upon how historically bad Cam was last year should lose their posting privileges' and be forced to post on the Tompa Bay forum. And regardless of your HAWT TAKE, I am still not saying Harry is any good, but many of you just have your agendas to rip BB about this and that. Football isn't baseball, it is really a team sport, if your qb can't throw you can't catch, if your o-line cant block your rb's can't run, if your d-line cant get a pass rush, your d-backs are going to get beat eventually. That is how this freaking game works. Harry was widely predicted to go where he went, late 1st early 2nd. All the draft god's some of you pray too had him there. Suddenly saying he sucked and we all knew Bill blew the pick when it happened is complete and total revisionary bs.

1. It's not BS at all.
2. I have no agenda about Harry, or any other individual player on the Patriots, beyond hoping they do well while they're on the team.
3. My take's not "HAWT" at all. Yours is the insane, "HAWT" take. My take is simply that Harry's been hot garbage, and that the excuses are just excuses as opposed to legitimate reasons.
4. As usual, you people try to pretend that everyone loved the bad picks in order to keep polishing BB's shoes, but reality is pretty much always that such a claim is a lie, because there's a group of people here who actually try to analyze rather than cheerlead.

 

[Hyped]

If he’s processing on the field and still can’t run routes effectively, forget it. He can run fades and that’s it. But I’d give him another chance because I don’t really want a low future pick for him.

That is where I am at... if someone wants to give us a 1, a 2, or even an 3...I might be tempted. But for a 4th-7th....screw that...let's see what he brings to the team in 2021.

 

[slash83]

Might as well keep the bums together and bring him back too.

 

[Kontradiction]

If he’s processing on the field and still can’t run routes effectively, forget it. He can run fades and that’s it. But I’d give him another chance because I don’t really want a low future pick for him.

Sunk cost fallacy. The pick has already been spent. You don’t keep a slug on the team just because you’ve already spent a first on him.

 

[TheRainMaker]

if someone wants to give us a 1, a 2, or even an 3

You "might" be tempted if someone offered a 1? Lol.

 

[Hyped]

You "might" be tempted if someone offered a 1? Lol.

I meant the 3rd....

For the 1st/2nd, I am driving N'Keal to the airport....

 

[TheRainMaker]

I meant the 3rd....

For the 1st/2nd, I am driving N'Keal to the airport....

Just checking.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

Hate to let him go now with Cam back. He and Harry had a real Montana to Rice connection.

 

[sb1]

N'Keal Harry was born in Canada? Didn't know that.

Hey maybe the Saskatchewan Roughriders in the new CXFL has a place for him.

 

[crawhammer]

They're not trading Harry. Too embarrassing. What are they getting in return?... a conditional 5th rounder, which anyway Bill will turn into a mid-tier special teamer in some faraway future draft thus concluding a litany of convoluted late round trades. To be followed by several congratulatory remarks from the IBWT crowd as cunningness leading to good value.

 

[Brotherblues]

Depends on the position. You named 2 Olinemen and we had Scar one of the best Oline coaches helping on evaluations. We suck at drafting WR and RB and our offensive coordinator thought Tim Tebow was a 1st rounder. We also have a broken CB scouting system. Anyone we draft at WR and CB is immediately suspect unless they're an undrafted free agent. The only positions I trust our staff knows what they're doing on a high draft pick are DE, DT, LB, Safety, and OLine. Ignore all these other positions because the Patriots are terrible at evaluating other positions.

You're missing TE. Graham, Watson, Gronk, and the criminal. Point is they were really good drafting as a whole until 2013 or so. Not spotless of course but really darn good at least at nailing the early round picks.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

You're missing TE. Graham, Watson, Gronk, and the criminal. Point is they were really good drafting as a whole until 2013 or so. Not spotless of course but really darn good at least at nailing the early round picks.

It's interesting you point this out. We got Graham, Watson, Gronk, Edelman, Branch, Givens, Hernandez all from 2001-2004 and 2009-2012, exactly when McDaniels wasn't OC here. We had absolutely horrific drafts from 2005-2008 and 2013-now which coincide with the same coordinator. 2009-2012 luckily he was elsewhere burning a 1st round pick for Tim Tebow for another team.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's interesting you point this out. We got Graham, Watson, Gronk, Edelman, Branch, Givens, Hernandez all from 2001-2004 and 2009-2012, exactly when McDaniels wasn't OC here. We had absolutely horrific drafts from 2005-2008 and 2013-now which coincide with the same coordinator. 2009-2012 luckily he was elsewhere burning a 1st round pick for Tim Tebow for another team.

The offensive coordinator isn't the one making the picks, and 2005 was a very good draft overall, all things considered

Offensive picks in rounds 1-2 in your years:

2001-2004: 5 (Light, Graham, Branch, B. Johnson, Watson)
2005-2008: 3 (Mankins, Maroney, Jackson)
2009-2012: 4 (Vollmer, Gronk, Solder, Vereen)
2013-2020: 5 (Dobson, JAG, Wynn, Michel, Harry)
Total: 17


Defensive picks in rounds 1-2 in your years:

2001-2004: 5
2005-2008: 3
2009-2012: 10
2013-2020: 9
Total: 27

So, if the O.C. were actually the one doing the drafting, the draft overweighting to the defensive side would be completely counterintuitive. I know that you like to troll with the anti-McDaniels stuff, but you've basically got no evidence in support of that trolling.

 

[d312]

Some talk amongst Cardinals fans that they're in for him, and they want a straight swap for Andy Isabella. Who is someone a lot of us wanted to draft and seems more a fit for what we do.

I'd do it. I feel Isabella can be a good deep threat. Would open up the middle for slot and TE.