N'Keal on the block?

[Triumph]

Whether it was Brady throwing or Cam, neither QB wanted to throw it to Harry. That's on Harry.

Brady didnt trust him.

Look at the Superbowl. Gronk and AB scored and not Godwin or Evans.

 

[Nehalem]

I put Gronk ahead of Edelman by a mile and both he and Seymour are 1a and 1b as the most important picks by Bill. Without Gronk, Pats aren't in position to win 3 Super Bowls. In fact, a healthy Gronk was most likely the difference in 2011 and 2012 so that's just two more possible Super Bowl opportunities right there.

They won the Super Bowl in 2016 when Gronk only played 8 games. This includes the 28-3 comeback in the SB.

 

[Sicilian]

This is a total cop-out answer on my part, but it all depends on how they truly view him. I think at this point his ceiling is a #3 who had utility in the red zone (making contested catches while being able to block well on run plays). That's the BEST he can be, which sucks for a first rounder but that's the reality we have to move forward with. If based on what they see in his motivation and trajectory, that that ceiling has a 1% chance of actually being realized, you move him for whatever you can get. At that point it's not even about the compensation, it's about not using coaching resources trying to build up a kid that just isn't going to get it.

But, if they think some of his issues can be fixed/improved, and there's say a 20% chance he becomes that guy? I don't think a late round pick is worth more than that. Most 6th/7th rounders get cut in year 1. Another year of Harry at short money is likely more valuable and has more upside than that.

 

[Deus Irae]

They were up there with the Stidham cultists lol

Yeah, it's one thing to kiss off some random player. It's been another thing, and a shameful one, seeing these people kissing off Tom Brady. What makes it worse is that the ire is being misdirected. Brady made it clear, publicly and multiple times, that he wanted to stay and the issue was a contract problem. Probably the most famous example was the following...

End of July, 2019:

When asked if he believed he deserved a new deal, Brady said with a grin: "I don't know. That's up for talk show debate.

"What do you guys think? Should we take a poll? Talk to Mr Kraft, come on. No, like I said, we've got a great relationship so we'll see how it goes."

Brady: "Talk To Mr. Kraft" About New Contract


The behavior of far too many Patriots fans has been disgraceful during this. And, sadly, many of those people who've been so disgraceful just continue to double down with their comments and behaviors, and it makes the fan base look like ungrateful idiots.

 

[Boston Boxer]

Aww I completely forgot
Dear God

i still remember Chad Jackson over Greg Jennings
Laurence Maroney over Deangelo Williams and Maurice Jones Drew.
I have nightmares about passing up on Brandon Marshall the WR
Greg Kittle it just goes on and on.
Hoping this new regime can fix this

what new regime...BB calls the shots

 

[203Pat]

Brady didnt trust him.

He entered Brady’s permanent doghouse against the Texans in 2019 when Bradley Roby bullied him at the top of his route and Harry just gave up and it got picked. Brady looked disgusted and N'Keal just looked sad.

 

[203Pat]

Yeah, it's one thing to kiss off some random player. It's been another thing, and a shameful one, seeing these people kissing off Tom Brady. What makes it worse is that the ire is being misdirected. Brady made it clear, publicly and multiple times, that he wanted to stay and the issue was a contract problem. Probably the most famous example was the following...

End of July, 2019:



Brady: "Talk To Mr. Kraft" About New Contract


The behavior of far too many Patriots fans has been disgraceful during this. And, sadly, many of those people who've been so disgraceful just continue to double down with their comments and behaviors, and it makes the fan base look like ungrateful idiots.

Completely agree. These fans that tow the company line and say "Brady didn't want to be here" are either clueless or trying to make themselves feel better. He didn't want to be here after it was made perfectly clear he wasn't wanted here.

 

[Deus Irae]

Zo/Bertrand just had a great idea (Yes, it's really true).


Call Arizona. See if they'll swap Isabella for Harry.

 

[jefmblrd]

Unless it’s a strong offer, I’d like to keep Harry around for another year and see if anything clicks for him.
Although I have to say that if Isabella came here and produced, he’d certainly be a fan favorite.

 

[Sicilian]

Zo/Bertrand just had a great idea (Yes, it's really true).


Call Arizona. See if they'll swap Isabella for Harry.

This would be a good move regardless I think (good change of scenery for both guys), but especially if we do end up trading for Jimmy G. I feel like Isabella is the type of receiver he utilized well in SF. Quick and versatile (if he can actually live up to his potential).

 

[Deus Irae]

This would be a good move regardless I think (good change of scenery for both guys), but especially if we do end up trading for Jimmy G. I feel like Isabella is the type of receiver he utilized well in SF. Quick and versatile (if he can actually live up to his potential).

And, unlike Murray, JAG would be tall enough to see Isabella running short routes.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I think the slot receiver became less important in NE with Brady leaving. It depends on the QB we have this year. We desperately need a good TE. Back to Harry, it hurts the offense tremendously when Harry plays, defenses know he sucks. It's like a NBA team with a guy who absolutely cannot shoot or score, defenses double team other players without getting burned

 

[TheRainMaker]

Chandler Jones was a little bit of a project coming out. All arm & legs, little pass rush plan or variety of moves. He was a basketball player his first year. Basically using hesi moves every other rush. He's turned into one of the best pass rushers in the game and players at his position. A few more years of solid production and he'll be in the HOF convo in 8-10 years.

Not sure if Hightower was brought up but he's in the convo. His size & skill set are just different. There's not many of his types around. Not to mention his impact in big games.

Gronk is probably #1 excluding Brady. He was the best offensive player in the game multiple years excluding QB's. Top 10-12 some years including QB's. Calvin Johnson all-around impact. Arguably the goat at his position. Tough argue against him.

While Jones and HT are one of my favorite picks on D post 2007, Gronk took the TE position to another level and opened up the field for other players who weren't exactly world beaters. Again, this is a guy who made plays year round and was the most dominating TE the NFL has seen in many, many years. Without him, the offense would've competed, but would probably find a way to fall short in big games which they did when he wasn't around (2016 being an anomaly).

Jones and HT didn't dominate like Gronk did and HT was in position to make that key tackle in the Super Bowl because of Gronk (He came up big in 2016 as well even though Gronk wasn't there).

They won the Super Bowl in 2016 when Gronk only played 8 games. This includes the 28-3 comeback in the SB.

That's one example, but that probably wouldn't have been the norm. They don't win without him in 2014, there's no comeback against Denver without him in 2015, Pats get a beatdown without him in 2017, he sets up the game winning TD in 2018. His presence was a game changer. Not to mention they lost in 2011 with a hobbled Gronk and 2012 when he wasn't available. That's 6 opportunities right there. That was Pats have made it far without talent like Gronk, but it usually ends with them coming up short somehow. To downplay Gronk's importance is asinine.

 

[varjao]

He had Tom Brady as his QB in his rookie year. The notion that the QB situation hasn't been good for him doesn't hold water.

So half his career he didn't have a good QB situation, statistically .

Rookie season for a Patriot receiver is always a pain in the ass. The offense was putrid, Brady was sort of injured and pissed off, a lot of excuses I know but there's some context, yet he caught a couple TD's and passes.

They certainly need to draft or bring another attempt at a #1 receiver but I would keep him instead of trading for peanuts.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I think the slot receiver became less important in NE with Brady leaving. It depends on the QB we have this year. We desperately need a good TE. Back to Harry, it hurts the offense tremendously when Harry plays, defenses know he sucks. It's like a NBA team with a guy who absolutely cannot shoot or score, defenses double team other players without getting burned

DB's are taking games off when they line up against him.

 

[Deus Irae]

a lot of excuses I know but there's some context, yet he caught a couple TD's and passes.

He was hot garbage, and it wasn't because of Brady, or the Patriots system. He was hot garbage in year two, too, and it wasn't because of Newton. If you want to hope that he won't suck harder than a Dyson this year, that's great. But don't go pinning his play the last two seasons on problems based on other people, when his failings have been the very failings that people here were warning about from day one, and not failings about things specifically related to Brady or Newton. Frankly, the best argument about his rookie year would have been his late start due to injury, but that excuse died when his second season happened.



Harry managed to be hot garbage all on his own.

 

[captain stone]

Zo/Bertrand just had a great idea (Yes, it's really true).


Call Arizona. See if they'll swap Isabella for Harry.

Sign me up! Rumor during the draft was that the Cardinals were going to take Kneal if Billy hadn't taken him first, so...

Otherwise I'm not dealing him for anything less than a 5th-rounder (to make up for the loss of ours from that strange Trent Brown trade).

 

[TheRainMaker]

So half his career he didn't have a good QB situation, statistically .

Rookie season for a Patriot receiver is always a pain in the ass. The offense was putrid, Brady was sort of injured and pissed off, a lot of excuses I know but there's some context, yet he caught a couple TD's and passes.

They certainly need to draft or bring another attempt at a #1 receiver but I would keep him instead of trading for peanuts.

His bad play aside, his attitude is alarming. Have you seen his last comment about him having any pressure to produce as a 1st round pick going into YEAR 3? He said he doesn't feel any. Seriously. And this is after the other picks before and after him outproducing him by a mile, an undrafted FA outplaying him and now his former teammate gains 300 more yards in one year alone than Harry in two years. The excuses need to stop. It's time for him to go.

 

[203Pat]

Zo/Bertrand just had a great idea (Yes, it's really true).


Call Arizona. See if they'll swap Isabella for Harry.

In a heartbeat.

 

[TomPatriot]

I might be tempted for a 3rd at the worst...otherwise...let's see what he can do with a FULL OFF SEASON and a new QB. He may be inconsistent....but he has shown flashes and CAN BLOCK....

Not entirely sure the Pats will have a new starting QB.