NFL Appeal oral arguments thread

[archstanton543]

FWIW, I just checked the 2nd circuits website and they published 3 opinions today, two were argued before the court in August, however, the third was argued in February 2016.

I keep secretly holding out hope that they will rule for Brady before the draft and slap the NFL for its frame job.

But they can't. This isn't a join suit by the NFLPA and the Patriots/Bob Kraft against the commissioner. This is just Brady/NFLPA against the commissioner.

Even if the judges do file rulings that say the whole thing is BS, the Pats aren't getting their picks back. The Pats/Bob Kraft have no recourse to get them back.

 

[Mack Herron]

Good process review here from Brandt, and it isn't pretty:
The When, What’s Next of Deflategate Appeal | The MMQB with Peter King

the record in this case consists only of what was available to Judge Berman: the Wells Report, Troy Vincent’s letter meting out punishment, the transcript of Brady’s appeal before Goodell, the appeal ruling, Judge Berman’s decision, the parties’ appeal briefs, and a transcript of the oral argument in front of them. Media reports, such as Sally Jenkins’ article in the Washington Post questioning NFL lawyer Paul Clement’s characterization of the evidence, or scientific articles such as the one by MIT professor John Leonard, are outside of the record and unlikely to have any effect. As for amicus—“friend of the court”—briefs, they are part of the record and may be considered, but there’s no obligation on part of judges to take them into consideration (and most do not).

the standard of review here is De Novo (latin term for “starting at the beginning”). Thus, the judges can basically ignore Judge Berman’s interpretation of the facts—as it seemed they did in the hearing—and draw their own conclusions. This was the case with Judge Chin's comment that “the evidence of ball tampering is compelling,” a statement diametrically opposed to Berman’s view of the case.

He describes a prolonged legal battle. In the end, if the NFL wins, as he predicts, he also points to a possible compromise as I suggested previously:

If the NFL is in the position of having litigated back their CBA power and precedent, my sense is they would be open to compromise with Brady.

 

[Jlaff]

Good process review here from Brandt, and it isn't pretty:
The When, What’s Next of Deflategate Appeal | The MMQB with Peter King


He describes a prolonged legal battle. In the end, if the NFL wins, as he predicts, he also points to a possible compromise as I suggested previously:

I didn't realize this was a trial de novo, have I been overlooking the obvious?

 

[VectorPrime]

Super. Nothing we didn't already know though.

 

[SVN]

 

[SVN]

 

[SVN]

Clement suggests blecker is being helped by the pats.the irony of calling an independent observer not so independent is funny.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Really? The facts are what Goodell says they are? Is this a kangaroo court?

 

[SVN]

 

[JMC00]

Really? The facts are what Goodell says they are? Is this a kangaroo court?

Judge Parker said point blank he doesn't think ****dell should be judge, jury and enforcer and it shouldn't just be deferred back to him. So taking the "the facts are what ****dell says they are" might not play.

 

[RobertWeathers]

In essence if the award is upheld, the are overruling not just Berman but Judge Doty (who saw that 46 did not give Goody the right to say what the law of shop or what facts are or aren't.).

 

[ctpatsfan77]

"Large portions" but you cite a single, much discussed, yet little understood, example. Use of the logo gauge implies that both the colts and patriots gauges were off by the same amount as the logo gauge when they were inflating the balls to 13 and 12.5 respectively. It is not making up evidence to conclude that that is unlikely and to conclude that it is "more probable" that Anderson used the non-logo gauge. Again, someone hired by Brady would reach the opposite conclusion. Welcome to the real world!

The problem is not, per se, that they questioned that assumption. The problem is that they accepted everything else he said except that one point.

 

[Gator Mike]

"Well, sure... technically, Brady's lawyers were only present for one interview. But that's immaterial, so it's not a lie."

 

[SVN]

Can brady's team write a rebuttal letter?

 

[SVN]

 

[VectorPrime]

Why?

 

[Deus Irae]

NFL counsel has to address blatant lies in front of the court of appeals....

 

[Gator Mike]

Why?

Gives Clement another chance to address the court and plead the NFL's case.

 

[Dr Pain]

Wow Mr Clement is getting his nose rubbed in it.

Paul D. Clement, Appellate Lawyer | Bancroft

His contact info is there. Perhaps someone can explain this to him.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Clement suggests blecker is being helped by the pats.the irony of calling an independent observer not so independent is funny.

You've got to be completely kidding me? I can't believe they would have the gall to bring up independence as an issue. This is like old man Potter taking the $8,000 and then calling out George Bailey for misappropriation of funds at the end of It's a Wonderful Life.