My Analysis : Drew Brees' Last 48 games - 33 played in a Dome

[JJDChE]

Yeah, all of these QBs whose numbers shoot UP in dome games, even though they're on the road, are irrelevant. I have no idea how anyone can look at the numbers across the league and say that there's not a significant advantage playing in a dome. Outside of the numbers, common sense tells you that it's easier to play in ideal field, temperature, wind, and humidity conditions than it is to play in crap weather.

But you keep on clingin'.

There is generally an advantage in playing in an environment with low wind/no precipitation. I disagree with using that as an argument that any specific QB (Brees, Manning, etc.) would not have performed similarly if they were put on a team where they played the majority of their games outside.

 

[JJDChE]

Not when compared to a Quarterback who set the record 50+ years ago in an era where defenders could pretty much do what they liked to receivers, offenses and passing games were nowhere near as evolved as they are now, and many of the games were played in poor conditions not conducive to Quarterbacks playing well. Basically a player who never played in a dome, and had the advantages modern day Quarterbacks and offenses have.

I'm not comparing Brees to Unitas. I just said the dome argument is lame, because it is. Unitas clearly had a more difficult path to achieve the same feat. It would be like throwing a TD in 100 straight games in today's NFL.

 

[Fixit]

There is generally an advantage in playing in an environment with low wind/no precipitation. I disagree with using that as an argument that any specific QB (Brees, Manning, etc.) would not have performed similarly if they were put on a team where they played the majority of their games outside.

All you have to know is that numbers for ROAD quarterbacks go way up in domes. There's a clear advantage playing in a dome. What leads you to believe that it's a one-way street?

You just said that there's an advantage to playing in a dome, but if QB X played all of their home games outdoors, the QB's performance would actually rise to meet the level in a dome, despite all evidence to the contrary. How does that make sense?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Brady is amazing indoors.

14g 103 QB rating. 67% comp. 29TDs 13 INTs 259 yards/g

Split Statistics | Tom Brady | New England Patriots | NFL - Yahoo! Sports

 

[Deus Irae]

There is generally an advantage in playing in an environment with low wind/no precipitation. I disagree with using that as an argument that any specific QB (Brees, Manning, etc.) would not have performed similarly if they were put on a team where they played the majority of their games outside.

That's over the top even for a troll post.

 

[Bhelmet]

I never saw Unitas play, he was long retired before I was even born, but it is impressive that he had such a streak. Especially since back in those days the NFL was a huge running league. Not sure when it changed, I only remember passing being big (although it has gotten "easier" as my years have gone on). I will not take anything away from Brees, or any other modern QB, but I would love to see them play against some of the old school D's (yes the Vikes and Pittsburgh - but those were before my time) like the '86 Bears, some of the Niners D's, or even the Giants. It is getting harder and harder to make comparisons amongst players from different eras. Especially since eras are now becoming less than 10 years.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

I grew up in Baltimore, and saw him play live many times. Unitas played in a completely different era. QBs were just like all the other players on the team. They could be hit every which way but loose. He was blindsided by a Bear's LB in 1960, resulting in three broken ribs. There wasn't a flag on the play, nor did the LB get a fine from the NFL. He was hit by Deacon Jones once, busting his nose. Unitas grabbed a hunt of sod from the ground, shoving it up his nose and called the next play. He called his own plays, and was extremely daring for the times. Throwing a long pass on a 3rd and 1, when the norm would be a cloud of dust and a first down. He was the master of the 2 minute drill, again, something unheard of in the league. the sideline pass to Ray Berry that they perfected was completely indefensible.

 

[thenepatsrule]

I grew up in Baltimore, and saw him play live many times. Unitas played in a completely different era. QBs were just like all the other players on the team. They could be hit every which way but loose. He was blindsided by a Bear's LB in 1960, resulting in three broken ribs. There wasn't a flag on the play, nor did the LB get a fine from the NFL. He was hit by Deacon Jones once, busting his nose. Unitas grabbed a hunt of sod from the ground, shoving it up his nose and called the next play. He called his own plays, and was extremely daring for the times. Throwing a long pass on a 3rd and 1, when the norm would be a cloud of dust and a first down. He was the master of the 2 minute drill, again, something unheard of in the league. the sideline pass to Ray Berry that they perfected was completely indefensible.

Nice bit of information, thanks.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

There's too much talk on here about why Brees is an overrated clown (which is true) and not enough about this record being an overrated farce.

Quarterback A plays in 50 games and throws 100 TD passes.

Quarterback B plays in 50 games and throws 70 TD passes, but he threw one in each game.

The record is most amazing for its statistical aberration but certainly not for its impressiveness. Same thing with DiMaggio and Williams, which I pointed out earlier in this thread.

The impressive thing about win streaks is that, for example, with Tom Brady's 21-game streak, there is no possible argument that another quarterback could have gone 22 and minus-1, so by all objective standards, there was no better quarterback to have for winning those games. Could someone have done as well? Possibly. Could someone have done better? Not possible.

As already pointed out, Brady threw roughly 16 less TDs during that stretch, but Brees threw an astonishing 25 more INTs. I'll bet Rodgers has been better, along with P Manning (assuming you could simulate 2011 or use 2008).

I can't stand seeing garbage praise heaped on a guy who isn't even a top quarterback of his generation.

 

[RobertWeathers]

There's too much talk on here about why Brees is an overrated clown (which is true) and not enough about this record being an overrated farce.

Quarterback A plays in 50 games and throws 100 TD passes.

Quarterback B plays in 50 games and throws 70 TD passes, but he threw one in each game.

The record is most amazing for its statistical aberration but certainly not for its impressiveness. Same thing with DiMaggio and Williams, which I pointed out earlier in this thread.

The impressive thing about win streaks is that, for example, with Tom Brady's 21-game streak, there is no possible argument that another quarterback could have gone 22 and minus-1, so by all objective standards, there was no better quarterback to have for winning those games. Could someone have done as well? Possibly. Could someone have done better? Not possible.

As already pointed out, Brady threw roughly 16 less TDs during that stretch, but Brees threw an astonishing 25 more INTs. I'll bet Rodgers has been better, along with P Manning (assuming you could simulate 2011 or use 2008).

I can't stand seeing garbage praise heaped on a guy who isn't even a top quarterback of his generation.

I don't think people are saying Brees is better than Brady but he has been one of the top 5 QBs in football the last 6 years or so and has a legit shot at the HoF.

I think the TD p/g streak is impressive.

Brees

 

[Deus Irae]

There's too much talk on here about why Brees is an overrated clown (which is true) and not enough about this record being an overrated farce.

Quarterback A plays in 50 games and throws 100 TD passes.

Quarterback B plays in 50 games and throws 70 TD passes, but he threw one in each game.

The record is most amazing for its statistical aberration but certainly not for its impressiveness. Same thing with DiMaggio and Williams, which I pointed out earlier in this thread.

The impressive thing about win streaks is that, for example, with Tom Brady's 21-game streak, there is no possible argument that another quarterback could have gone 22 and minus-1, so by all objective standards, there was no better quarterback to have for winning those games. Could someone have done as well? Possibly. Could someone have done better? Not possible.

As already pointed out, Brady threw roughly 16 less TDs during that stretch, but Brees threw an astonishing 25 more INTs. I'll bet Rodgers has been better, along with P Manning (assuming you could simulate 2011 or use 2008).

I can't stand seeing garbage praise heaped on a guy who isn't even a top quarterback of his generation.

Streaks are impressive for their consistency. This is impressive, as is a long hitting streak in baseball, or a scoring streak in hockey, etc...

 

[patstrips65]

wow...imagine him coming to NE in the snow...

They will be here next year. Probably earlier in the season though, for tv purposes.

 

[pherein]

sweet another I hate Brees thread because he threatens TB is god lovers, yahoo!!!

I always take this as a sign of admiration that anyone would constantly compare Brees to Brady. I mean what else would get someone out of bed to waste their time thinking of such a thing. That and people create figures to rant about what they really think. Its all good.

 

[Deus Irae]

sweet another I hate Brees thread because he threatens TB is god lovers, yahoo!!!

I always take this as a sign of admiration that anyone would constantly compare Brees to Brady. I mean what else would get someone out of bed to waste their time thinking of such a thing. That and people create figures to rant about what they really think. Its all good.

For the most part, it seems more like a discussion of indoors/outdoors in terms of what's more impressive. Do you deny that Unitas' streak is more impressive?

 

[JJDChE]

All you have to know is that numbers for ROAD quarterbacks go way up in domes. There's a clear advantage playing in a dome. What leads you to believe that it's a one-way street?

You just said that there's an advantage to playing in a dome, but if QB X played all of their home games outdoors, the QB's performance would actually rise to meet the level in a dome, despite all evidence to the contrary. How does that make sense?

You don't know how any given QB would adjust their game if they played 75% of their games outdoors instead of 75% indoors. The great ones, like Manning and Brees, are the ones who would be most likely to be able to adjust to having to play in regularly changing conditions.

You just can't know for certain. I'm sure you could find some evidence based on guys who changed teams from dome to outdoors or vice versa, but so many other things change as well it would be hard to call the comparison a legitimate correlation.

 

[pherein]

For the most part, it seems more like a discussion of indoors/outdoors in terms of what's more impressive. Do you deny that Unitas' streak is more impressive?

Much more so, because of the lack of restrictions on defense. But that was covered in the other thread.
There are so many what if's its impossible to figure out Indoors/outdoors.
You can sight stats on Brees in SD , but then what was SD compared to what Brady was given? A HOF coach, and a team that could win a SB.
Brees also missed a season for his shoulder. Has 6 years in a Dome and 18 years outdoors. So am I to think that sense Brady didnt come close to Brees in college Brees is better outdoors ?

Brady
Brady played college football for, and graduated from, the University of Michigan.[11][12] He was a backup his first two years, while teammate and future NFL quarterback Brian Griese led the 1997 Wolverines to an undefeated season capped by a victory in the Rose Bowl and a share of the national championship. When he enrolled at Michigan, Brady was seventh on the depth chart and had an intense struggle to get some playing time. At one point, Brady hired a sports psychologist to help him cope with frustration and anxiety and even considered transferring to Cal.[13][14] Brady battled for the starting job with Drew Henson,[12] ultimately starting every game in the 1998 and 1999 seasons under Michigan head coach Lloyd Carr. During his first full year as starter, he set Michigan records for most pass attempts and completions in a season (214).[15] Brady was All-Big Ten honorable mention both seasons and team captain his senior year. The Wolverines won 20 of 25 games when he started and shared the Big Ten Conference title in 1998. Brady capped that season with a win over Arkansas in the Citrus Bowl.[16] In the 1999 season, Brady led Michigan to an overtime win in the Orange Bowl over Alabama, throwing for 369 yards and four touchdowns.[12]


Brees
Brees graduated from Purdue University with a degree in industrial management.[12] He is a member of the Sigma Chi Fraternity. He left Purdue with Big Ten Conference records in passing yards (11,792), touchdown passes (90), total offensive yards (12,693), completions (1,026), and attempts (1,678). He led the Boilermakers to the 2001 Rose Bowl, Purdue's first appearance there since 1967, where Purdue lost by ten points to the Washington Huskies. Brees was a finalist for the Davey O'Brien Award as the nation's best quarterback in 1999. He won the Maxwell Award as the nation's outstanding player of 2000 and won the NCAA's Today's Top VIII Award as a member of the Class of 2001. Brees was also fourth in Heisman Trophy voting in 1999 and third in 2000. Brees also tied an NCAA record with the longest pass ever (99 yards), to receiver Vinny Sutherland against Northwestern on September 25, 1999
As a senior, Brees was named the Academic All-American Player of the Year, the first Purdue player since Bruce Brineman (1989) to earn national academic honors. Brees also was awarded Purdue's Leonard Wilson Award for unselfishness and dedication. To continue his education and improve his ability to pursue reasoned business ventures and opportunities, Brees also attended the Stanford Graduate School of Business for NFL Business Management and Entrepreneurship in 2008.

does purdue have some dome effect Im not aware of,lol.
Its ridicules. You would have to gage the too teams they were given, coaching, and environment. Clearly Brady got the best hand in this. Colstons no Moss, and Moore is no Welker. Clearly Brady still enjoys the best overall coaching. I think SP is a better OC. I just think its a waste of time comparing them at all, and its being done to voice other actual and personal opinions .

If Brees end in KC with SP he'd be fine.

 

[Deus Irae]

Much more so, because of the lack of restrictions on defense. But that was covered in the other thread.
There are so many what if's its impossible to figure out Indoors/outdoors.
You can sight stats on Brees in SD , but then what was SD compared to what Brady was given? A HOF coach, and a team that could win a SB.
Brees also missed a season for his shoulder. Has 6 years in a Dome and 18 years outdoors. So am I to think that sense Brady didnt come close to Brees in college Brees is better outdoors ?

I wasn't arguing Brady v. Brees, but c'mon. Brady took a team that many claim is the worst Super Bowl champion ever, and he beat a team many thought to be among the best teams ever to play. He's been to 5 Super Bowls in 10 full seasons as a starter, and he was robbed of a 6th in 2006 by a call that's not even illegal in the NFL, and wasn't at the time (face guarding). He took a team to the only 16-0 regular season record in history. He's come within 3 minutes of 2 more Super Bowl victories. He's never led a team to a losing record. In 2010, he became the first, and only, unanimous NFL MVP in the history of that award.

He's done that with massive turnover, and with system/scheme changes beyond what any top QB currently playing has had to do. I like Brees, and I consider him top 3 right now, along with Brady and Rodgers but, again, c'mon.

 

[pherein]

I wasn't arguing Brady v. Brees, but c'mon. Brady took a team that many claim is the worst Super Bowl champion ever, and he beat a team many thought to be among the best teams ever to play. He's been to 5 Super Bowls in 10 full seasons as a starter, and he was robbed of a 6th in 2006 by a call that's not even illegal in the NFL, and wasn't at the time (face guarding). He took a team to the only 16-0 regular season record in history. He's come within 3 minutes of 2 more Super Bowl victories. He's never led a team to a losing record. In 2010, he became the first, and only, unanimous NFL MVP in the history of that award.

He's done that with massive turnover, and with system/scheme changes beyond what any top QB currently playing has had to do. I like Brees, and I consider him top 3 right now, along with Brady and Rodgers but, again, c'mon.

Your arguing it now Deus. Your posting TB resume,lol. Who hasn't had massive turn over ?Look I don't even care,, putting Brees and Brady in the the same arena makes zero sense.
Brady has the rings, everyone is safe.
There are way to many things to figure out. What if Brady ended up in SD and Brees in NE? its crazy to think of this stuff, and the data to come to something close to a logical answer would take a Cray computer,lol.

Rogers got a good deal to, Farve came out of retirement because he saw how good GB was. Your not telling me being on SD is close to being on NE ? or Rogers on GB right.

Brees is a good guy, but he reminds me of the kid in school that tells the teacher what other kids did wrong, and that just annoys some people. Good two shoes,lol

 

[Deus Irae]

Your arguing it now Deus. Your posting TB resume,lol. Who hasn't had massive turn over ?Look I don't even care,, putting Brees and Brady in the the same arena makes zero sense.
Brady has the rings, everyone is safe.
There are way to many things to figure out. What if Brady ended up in SD and Brees in NE? its crazy to think of this stuff, and the data to come to something close to a logical answer would take a Cray computer,lol.

Rogers got a good deal to, Farve came out of retirement because he saw how good GB was. Your not telling me being on SD is close to being on NE ? or Rogers on GB right.

Brees is a good guy, but he reminds me of the kid in school that tells the teacher what other kids did wrong, and that just annoys some people. Good two shoes,lol

I'm not arguing it now. I'm pointing out Brady's bona fides as a way of basically saying "So what if people here pick Brady? He's arguably the GOAT and you're on a Patriots board.".

But, please, stop with the "He had better teams" stuff. Both guys have been on highly talented teams, and both guys have been on teams with less talent. Brady's done better with both, although Brees has been excellent when surrounded with weapons.

You should defend Brees. He's been the #3 or #4 QB for much of his later career. But there's no need for you to get defensive every time someone here slights Brees in favor of Brady. That's not exactly saying JaMarcus Russell > Brees, after all.

 

[thenepatsrule]

sweet another I hate Brees thread because he threatens TB is god lovers, yahoo!!!

You seriously need to read the FIRST POST about 32 times before jumping to the conclusion that the thread compares brees and brady......
Come on man, i thought you were one of the intelligent posters (from other teams) on this board, your post looks like it was posted by a ******ed jets fan...... The intention of the thread was never to compare Brady and Brees......