Money and cap considerations: another year of Brady or ... ?

[Biffins]

Stidham or someone at a similar or slihghtly higher price is key in order to give the Patriots a couple of years of cap space in FA market.

If Brady leaves and Stidham is performing well enough to keep the starters job for 1-2 years it would be great as he will be on rookie salary.

If he does not work out could consider 1-2 years of JAG veteran QB who will come relatively cheap e.g.:

Cody Kessler, Brett Hundley, Chase Daniel, AJ Mccaron, Bortles, Glennon, Matt Moore


It would be amazing if they could get a steal in the draft in rounds 2 or 3 for a QB like Jalen Hurt, who I think is very undervalued, tough as nails and athletic but could be very good with solid coaching around him


Unless the team gets unbelievably luck and Stidham outperforms what everyone thinks he can do, 1-3 years of mediocre QB play at best is likely going to happen. Need to bottom out to reach contender status again, most likely.

Why would we want to bottom out. All this tanking talk is just utter nonsense

 

[Biffins]

Unless you have ESP or work in the Patriots organization, you have absolutely no way of knowing what Stidham can or cannot do. But to say he would've brought a "horror show" defies BB's obvious faith in the kid.

What obvious faith are you referring to? Beating Hoyer in camp is all he’s achieved. That’s a low baseline.

 

[skinnydog]

I’m at a loss to see how folks thing the could have kept Jimmy G. Actually they traded him too late. Brady was great in the 2016 season and in the 2017 Super Bowl, he led the greatest comeback in the history of the NFL to beat the Falcons. He was amazing in the comeback. Amazing. Would you move on from that QB in the Spring of 2017? That’s when they should have traded Jimmy G. So we start the 2017 season and Brady is great. Same Brady. They trade Jimmy G late in that 2017 season. They had too. You can’t move on from Brady at that point and Jimmy G was going to be a free agent in the Spring of 2018. You can’t pay your back up QB 15+ million while paying Brady 20+. He had to be traded. Oh, and Brady led them to a Super Bowl again that year and threw for 500 yards that year setting a Super Bowl record. They would have won if the D had stopped the Eagles once! Then in 2018 they start to morph into a run focused offense behind a really good o-line. And yes Brady leads them to their third Super Bowl in a row and the win making clutch passes down the stretch in the playoffs. The timing to move on to Jimmy G just didn’t work out because Brady was just too good despite his advancing age.

 

[Biffins]

Ok, “Dude,” ad hominem attacks and declarative sentences are great. I was trying to engage in a football discussion. I only “look at results.” Is there really a need for this type of nonsense?

A high percentage of his throws are off the mark. The arc on his follow through seems higher, so he’s overthrowing receivers. He’s fine moving in the pocket but less accurate now throwing on the move. Pressure bothers every QB, but it bothers him more now, even on plays where the pressure is limited or nonexistent. There many other little things.

You talk about all that Brady can do. Not one of those attributes is as consistently good as it was in prior years.

First, it was Marshall Newhouse’s fault, then every other OL’s fault and if that excuse fails, it’s the WRs or the TEs. Then last weekend, Newhouse wasn’t on the field, the pass protection was excellent and he played his worst game. Fitz has a lesser offense and he was much more productive under more pressure. So now it’s the toe, the elbow, the cleats. Come on. He’s 42 and you point to one pass in last year’s SB, where he threw a great pass to Gronk but also a bad pick (to Hogan, btw).

I agree his supporting cast isn’t as good as last year’s. But anyone who watched every game this year has to acknowledge that he shoulders some of the blame. He’s the GOAT but he isn’t a God.

At what point did I conduct an “ad hominem attack”. How am I questioning your character or integrity or making it personal. Please don’t deflect.

I am stating that your analysis is flawed as it is lacking context. Sure I made declarative statements about the quality of Brady’s play but so have you in the converse so that’s neither here or there.

I still believe Brady’s done as well as any QB could have done or managed in our pathetic OL, Running fame, WR, TE situation. Noone other QB could have done more with this motley crew. And if that’s true then Brady is outperforming, not underperforming.

 

[Tunescribe]

What obvious faith are you referring to? Beating Hoyer in camp is all he’s achieved. That’s a low baseline.

BB has faith he can perform in Brady's absence as the only other QB to suit up this season. That is a very significant vote of confidence.

 

[Biffins]

BB has faith he can perform in Brady's absence as the only other QB to suit up this season. That is a very significant vote of confidence.

Or a sign we’re desperate for roster spots. Asking Demaryius to be cut and rejoin, and other shenanigans. We have too many players we want to hold on to that we didn’t want to cut. Some we had to eventually like Braxton Berrios etc. Hoyer just didn’t command a roster spot. And Brady plays through injuries like a champ. Not sure it all necessarily adds up to a sterling vote of confidence in Stidham. It could but not necessarily. Many other factors.

 

[RobertWeathers]

we don’t know that’s the baseline.

Are you saying Tom should be paid $30m next year?

 

[Tottie]

Confidence in a rookie as a backup QB does not translate to making the playoffs the next year with him as a starter. We have a good defense. It's retool, not restart. 1 year deal with Brady and make another run.

 

[Tunescribe]

Or a sign we’re desperate for roster spots. Asking Demaryius to be cut and rejoin, and other shenanigans. We have too many players we want to hold on to that we didn’t want to cut. Some we had to eventually like Braxton Berrios etc. Hoyer just didn’t command a roster spot. And Brady plays through injuries like a champ. Not sure it all necessarily adds up to a sterling vote of confidence in Stidham. It could but not necessarily. Many other factors.

You're not making much sense here. QB is an important position, right? BB believes Stidham has what it takes to be Brady's backup, which is why he's on the team. That has been the story since training camp.

 

[Patsgofor4]

If a 20+ million cap number for Brady next year will prevent the Pata from re-signing/signing 2-3 players in their prime who will likely be major contributors for 4+ years, count me out.

 

[Boomer B]

If a 20+ million cap number for Brady next year will prevent the Pata from re-signing/signing 2-3 players in their prime who will likely be major contributors for 4+ years, count me out.

KVN, McCourty, Collins, Thuney all are up for a new contract. Even if Brady goes elsewhere he leaves a big dead cap hit of $13.5m. You aren’t resigning/signing much with the savings you get from Brady gone.

We have a very tough schedule next year and not much room to improve the O and will likely lose a few on D. Add in some likely coaching losses and it’s gonna be tough for a young guy like Stidham to get us back into the playoffs. Hoping Brady rebounds and we keep healthy may be our best shot at another run. Either way, the rebuild is coming within the next few seasons.

 

[Tunescribe]

KVN, McCourty, Collins, Thuney all are up for a new contract. Even if Brady goes elsewhere he leaves a big dead cap hit of $13.5m. You aren’t resigning/signing much with the savings you get from Brady gone.

Even at Brady's current contract of $23 million and considering the cap hit, applying $9.5 million elsewhere would be significant.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If a 20+ million cap number for Brady next year will prevent the Pata from re-signing/signing 2-3 players in their prime who will likely be major contributors for 4+ years, count me out.

Well, other than Thuney who else deserves big money/extension who has multiple years left playing at a close-to All Pro level who is under 30?

 

[skinnydog]

BB has faith he can perform in Brady's absence as the only other QB to suit up this season. That is a very significant vote of confidence.

No. It’s a roster spot gamble which BB has done many times in the past.

 

[Biffins]

Are you saying Tom should be paid $30m next year?

I am saying we don’t know if that’s what he’s asking for to come back to Pats. We don’t know if that’s the baseline or starting point of discussion for him.

 

[Biffins]

If a 20+ million cap number for Brady next year will prevent the Pata from re-signing/signing 2-3 players in their prime who will likely be major contributors for 4+ years, count me out.

Tom’s cap number will depend on how they structure the deal. Probably with some void years again to spread the hit.

 

[Biffins]

If a 20+ million cap number for Brady next year will prevent the Pata from re-signing/signing 2-3 players in their prime who will likely be major contributors for 4+ years, count me out.

Count you out from what? Future SB wins with Brady? Errr ok. Sure.

 

[Tunescribe]

Well, other than Thuney who else deserves big money/extension who has multiple years left playing at a close-to All Pro level who is under 30?

I wouldn't make playing at all-pro level a condition, continuity has its own value. But strong effort should be made to retain Van Noy, Shelton, Butler, Karras, Bethel and maybe Roberts (in addition to Thuney, who tops the list). I'd also like to see D. McCourtey back at a team-friendly price. Slater and Ebner probably are back cheap. I don't know what the hell to think about Jamie Collins, but word is he wants to cash in elsewhere. Dorsett probably is gone.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I am saying we don’t know if that’s what he’s asking for to come back to Pats. We don’t know if that’s the baseline or starting point of discussion for him.

Agree but we are all speculating.

For example if fans want to pay Tom $30m in 2021, what does that look like and how does it impact the team's ability to sign/resign its players or extend the ones they want here long term.?

 

[Biffins]

Confidence in a rookie as a backup QB does not translate to making the playoffs the next year with him as a starter. We have a good defense. It's retool, not restart. 1 year deal with Brady and make another run.

Exactly