MIA@NE re-watch thread

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[Tony2046]

Let it begin. The debate of whether this is a penalty or not. I say not. Some say it was.

@DaBruinz - tagged you to get your take on this.

 

[slam]

I say no penalty for hitting the facemask. Player seemed to be primarily going after the ball, and contact with the facemask was incidental.

I do not know the rules regarding how much of a chance you're supposed to give the returner to catch the ball. He didn't call for a fair catch, but is he supposed to get a one or two count to secure the ball before contact?

 

[Ring 6]

Let it begin. The debate of whether this is a penalty or not. I say not. Some say it was.

@DaBruinz - tagged you to get your take on this.

No

 

[Ring 6]

I say no penalty for hitting the facemask. Player seemed to be primarily going after the ball, and contact with the facemask was incidental.

I do not know the rules regarding how much of a chance you're supposed to give the returner to catch the ball. He didn't call for a fair catch, but is he supposed to get a one or two count to secure the ball before contact?

You only need to let him catch it, just like a pass. As soon as it touches him you can hit him.
Touching a face mask is not a penalty.

 

[Tony2046]

I say no penalty for hitting the facemask. Player seemed to be primarily going after the ball, and contact with the facemask was incidental.

I do not know the rules regarding how much of a chance you're supposed to give the returner to catch the ball. He didn't call for a fair catch, but is he supposed to get a one or two count to secure the ball before contact?

Good question. If I'm reading the rules correctly there isn't a count rather the kicking team cannot make contact with the returner before he has touched the ball. So without a Fair Catch signal it is legal to hit the Punt returner as soon as he touches the ball.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/13_Rule10_CatchKick_FairCatch.pdf

 

[Ring 6]

Good question. If I'm reading the rules correctly there isn't a count rather the kicking team cannot make contact with the returner before he has touched the ball. So without a Fair Catch signal it is legal to hit the Punt returner as soon as he touches the ball.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/13_Rule10_CatchKick_FairCatch.pdf

For those of us old enough to remember, it should be called the Leon “Ain’t So” Bright rule.

 

[Tony2046]

For those of us old enough to remember, it should be called the Leon “Ain’t So” Bright rule.

I should have started that post with Lett it begin.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

The Patriots actually think Suh is the weakest link on the Miami defense

"They pay me to rush the QB, so that's what I'm gonna do - too bad if it turns out to be a running play."

One of the reasons Bill has never sprung for a high-priced prima donna pash rusher - they care more about personal stats than how the team does.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Good question. If I'm reading the rules correctly there isn't a count rather the kicking team cannot make contact with the returner before he has touched the ball. So without a Fair Catch signal it is legal to hit the Punt returner as soon as he touches the ball.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/13_Rule10_CatchKick_FairCatch.pdf

Didn't there used to be a "halo" rule to prevent guys getting killed?

 

[The Brandon Five]

Nevermind, I guess it was only in college and they got rid of the rule in 2003.

'Halo rule' punted from college football in 2003 | CJOnline.com

 

[Ring 6]

Didn't there used to be a "halo" rule to prevent guys getting killed?

I think the halo applies to the fair catch.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Full credit for this goes to Andy Johnson; rewritten without abbreviations. (The poster claimed to be a beginner.)

In a screen pass you let their Defensive Line get past the Offensive line to rush the quarterback. The quarterback backs up drawing them to him and then throws to a receiver (normally a running back) at or behind the line of scrimmage.
The Offensive lineman after letting the Defensive Lineman past them them get out in front of the receiver and block on the second level.
That’s the simplistic explanation and of course there are numerous ways to vary it.

Success or failure depends a lot on the defense not reading it because the defensive line can disrupt it by stating back and the Linebackers can beat the Offensive Lineman to the spot if they read it coming.

 

[Tony2046]

I think the halo applies to the fair catch.

That's it. As soon as a the PR touches the ball he is fair game. IF he calls for a fair catch then he cannot be touched.

 

[Ring 6]

That's it. As soon as a the PR touches the ball he is fair game. IF he calls for a fair catch then he cannot be touched.

But the halo of its still called that is a distance that must be observed on a fair catch to give the returner a chance to make the catch without disruption.

 

[Tony2046]

But the halo of its still called that is a distance that must be observed on a fair catch to give the returner a chance to make the catch without disruption.

I'm not sure what the distance of the "halo" is and I'm not sure if it's even observed. I remember hearing 3 yards in the past but I've seen kicking teams much closer during a fair catch. So I'm not sure about the actual halo rule but am sure that if a fair catch is called he cannot be touched and if a fair catch isn't called the PR can be hit immediately after he touches the ball.

 

[ALP]

if fair catch isnt called, you can hit him anywhere, if its after first contact w/ the ball (cant tackle him from facemask though, thats still illegal)

not a penalty per rules

 

[captain stone]

Let it begin. The debate of whether this is a penalty or not. I say not. Some say it was.

@DaBruinz - tagged you to get your take on this.

Very close. I wish that CBS had re-played it from the original angle, in slow motion. They showed 2 different angles in slow motion. The first one implied that Amendola's face mask was struck, because of the way his helmet shook. The other showed a close-up of the falling football all the way to Amendola, so the moment of contact wasn't shown in its entirety. The gunner's left hand appeared to touch Amendola's left shoulder, after already passing his face mask. Inconclusive.

My verdict: Amendola should have called for a fair catch. And the Pats were fortunate that the zebras somehow awarded possession to them.

 

[Tony2046]

@patfanken - What's interesting is that they seemed to use mostly/only man blocking schemes. No zone. Wonder if that is because of having Karras and Waddle/Fleming on the line.

1ST & 10 AT NE 41 (13:38) D.Lewis up the middle to MIA 46 for 13 yards (R.Jones).



2ND & 2 AT MIA 2 (11:46) R.Burkhead left tackle for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN


1ST & 10 AT NE 12 (10:12) D.Lewis up the middle to NE 34 for 22 yards


1ST & 10 AT NE 44 (12:15) R.Burkhead left guard to NE 47 for 3 yards


3RD & 2 AT MIA 29 (11:24) (No Huddle, Shotgun) D.Lewis up the middle to MIA 24 for 5 yards (A.Branch). PENALTY on MIA-B.McCain, Disqualification, 12 yards, enforced at MIA 24.

2ND & 11 AT MIA 36 (6:16) (Shotgun) R.Burkhead right guard to MIA 29 for 7 yards
Patriots vs Miami Run 6.mov - Create, Discover and Share Awesome GIFs on Gfycat

 

[Ubie]

Thanks to those who helped out with the screen pass question - makes a lot more sense now .