McDermott: "2017 Pats Better Than 03, 04 and 07 Teams"

[Ring 6]

I think thats an easy out but I know where you are going with it.

You know as much as anyone the 01 team was not better than the 04 team

See, I wholeheartedly believe they were equal.
It’s just a matter of how you define “better”.
I define it as reaching the ultimate goal, because that is why you play.
It’s intellectially inconsistent to me to call a team that didn’t win a championship better than one that did. It’s a matter of what you are saying they are better at and to me the goal is to be better at winning the SB, nothing else.

And yes I supposed we could try to compare champions and say who is better but it’s meaningless to me because no champion could have been any better than they were, based upon my definition

 

[qbno12]

Really?

I can see ditching Watkins and the other high priced talent but what exactly was he trying to accomplish with Peterman over Taylor vs the Chargers?

I am not sure either. Coaches make questionable decisions all the time. He'll learn. Again, I am not saying he is a top tier coach but at least until now he's done a decent job.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I am not sure either. Coaches make questionable decisions all the time. He'll learn. Again, I am not saying he is a top tier coach but at least until now he's done a decent job.

Fair enough.

 

[RobertWeathers]

See, I wholeheartedly believe they were equal.
It’s just a matter of how you define “better”.
I define it as reaching the ultimate goal, because that is why you play.
It’s intellectially inconsistent to me to call a team that didn’t win a championship better than one that did. It’s a matter of what you are saying they are better at and to me the goal is to be better at winning the SB, nothing else.

And yes I supposed we could try to compare champions and say who is better but it’s meaningless to me because no champion could have been any better than they were, based upon my definition

I get what you are saying.

There is no way I can say the 2007 Giants are better than the 2004 Patriots, 1984 49ers, 1985 Bears or the 1978 Steelers as 99 of 100 times they would lose to those teams. Just can't do it.

 

[Ring 6]

I get what you are saying.

There is no way I can say the 2007 Giants are better than the 2004 Patriots, 1984 49ers, 1985 Bears or the 1978 Steelers as 99 of 100 times they would lose to those teams. Just can't do it.

Not better. Equal. Equal because both accomplished the goal.
I don’t think who would win a pretend game is meaningful in any way.

But the 2007 Giants, on the scale I believe is correct, we’re bwtter than the 2007 Patriots, who by the way would have beaten all of those teams more than half the time in pretend games.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

The book on this years team has several chapters that are still unwritten. Only time will tell how they finish.

 

[supafly]

For me, the ‘03 team was our best. Insane defense. Then ‘04, then ‘14, then ‘16, then ‘01.

Sadly, the 2007 team may have been better than all of them.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not better. Equal. Equal because both accomplished the goal.
I don’t think who would win a pretend game is meaningful in any way.

But the 2007 Giants, on the scale I believe is correct, we’re bwtter than the 2007 Patriots, who by the way would have beaten all of those teams more than half the time in pretend games.

Yea you can't really argue the 07 Gints < 07 NEP when they beat them.

 

[DarrylS]

McDermott is just another NFL Coach who tries to imitate BB, but will fail...

Perhaps he is auditioning for a job in the future..

 

[TruthSeeker]

I guess you haven't actually watched the games, and are solely relying on @PatriotsNumero1Fan 's expert analysis from the Game Day Threads.

You've got to be kidding me - look at a game day thread!?!

No, I've actually watched all the games. Despite the Patriots recent success in holding opponents to low point totals, their lack of ability to stop the run is seen on most runs (and by the stats). Despite their success in sacks against Miami, their QB pressure is not good. I admit I have high expectations and are frustrated by these weaknesses. But they certainly are weaknesses, unlike the teams in the early 2000s.

 

[Nehalem]

Yea you can't really argue the 07 Gints < 07 NEP when they beat them.

The 07 NEP beat the 07 Giants too.

Also, by your logic the 2010 Browns > 2010 Patriots, because the Browns beat the Pats that year.

 

[DaBruinz]

That's ridiculous. We had good to great defenses in the early 2000's. This year's defense has proven week in and week out that it can't stop the run, has a very limited pass rush and is succeeding largely because of timely turnovers and weak opposing QB play. Sure, you can say the offense is a little better (and that's what everyone loves to focus on), but the defense is a huge downgrade from those years. It's not close.

Guess you missed the part where the Pats were 7th in the league in terms of getting pressure on the QB heading into the Miami game. Kinda blows up the "limited pass rush" BS you and others seem to push..

This defense has had it's issues stopping the run, but you seem to forget that they were without Malcolm Brown for 3 games, have been without Hightower for several games now and haven't had Vincent Valentine the entire year.

While this team had issues it's first 4 games, the 9 games since have been night and day. The 2003 and 2004 teams were certainly more consistent overall, but this team's defense is shaping up to be pretty damn good.

 

[DaBruinz]

You've got to be kidding me - look at a game day thread!?!

No, I've actually watched all the games. Despite the Patriots recent success in holding opponents to low point totals, their lack of ability to stop the run is seen on most runs (and by the stats). Despite their success in sacks against Miami, their QB pressure is not good. I admit I have high expectations and are frustrated by these weaknesses. But they certainly are weaknesses, unlike the teams in the early 2000s.

Actually, being 7th in the league in QB Pressure is pretty good.. But I can't expect you to understand that.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The 07 NEP beat the 07 Giants too.

Also, by your logic the 2010 Browns > 2010 Patriots, because the Browns beat the Pats that year.

Super Bowls matter

 

[TruthSeeker]

Guess you missed the part where the Pats were 7th in the league in terms of getting pressure on the QB heading into the Miami game. Kinda blows up the "limited pass rush" BS you and others seem to push..

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. It doesn't seem like they're getting much pressure when I watch the games - but my expectations are high and I just may not understand the norm.

This defense has had it's issues stopping the run, but you seem to forget that they were without Malcolm Brown for 3 games, have been without Hightower for several games now and haven't had Vincent Valentine the entire year.

I understand. But all teams have injuries and they are who they are.

While this team had issues it's first 4 games, the 9 games since have been night and day. The 2003 and 2004 teams were certainly more consistent overall, but this team's defense is shaping up to be pretty damn good.

I agree that the secondary coverage and points allowed have been night and day. I don't see much difference in the run defense.

Football Outsiders has the Patriots defense as 29th overall in the NFL at 13.9%. They've just started weighing the early games less. Certainly the Patriots are significantly better than that, but I wouldn't be calling them a top 10 defense by any stretch. The early year mistakes (primarily in the secondary) were so horrendous that we really need to ignore the first month all together to get a decent idea of who they are now.

Bottom line from my perspective, this is not a defense that I have any confidence can significantly slow down a top offense. I'd love to be wrong about this and it may be that I am. The good news is that our offense has the potential to overcome our defensive inadequacies and still put out the win.

 

[FourierSeries]

Bottom line from my perspective, this is not a defense that I have any confidence can significantly slow down a top offense. I'd love to be wrong about this and it may be that I am. The good news is that our offense has the potential to overcome our defensive inadequacies and still put out the win.

They've already stopped the Saints and the Falcons.

Thanks for proving that you have not watched a single game this season.

 

[scott99]

I don't think the 2017 Pats are as good as the 2016 Pats.

 

[Bcc66duece]

I don't think the 2017 Pats are as good as the 2016 Pats.

I think think would have been alot better but then the injuries came.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think the 2017 Pats are as good as the 2016 Pats.

The 2017 offense has the potential to be better and since Week 5 the defense is playing at the same level

 

[brdmaverick]

See, I wholeheartedly believe they were equal.
It’s just a matter of how you define “better”.

I get what you are saying because you could say the 2001 season was better than the 2007 season because we reached out ultimate goal.

When ranking teams for conversations such as this though I think most of us would define 'better' by trying to guess which team would have more wins if the two played each other multiple times (assuming a large enough sample size).