Mayo negotiations + OC interviews next week

[UrbanCowboy]

So you believe that Bill came up w/ an evil master plan to dupe his buddy Fat Matt and Judge into accepting roles they weren't qualified for until his other buddy Teapot was available to take the job from both of them; while they both looked like clowns possibly ending their NFL coaching careers and that Early Bird signed off on this plan, meaning he was trolling the fans with his Palm Beach statements?

If so, the sheer duplicitous evil nature of the plan gives me greater respect for Bill and Bob. Those two old geezers are vicious asF. Lol

Perhaps Bill was totally shocked by Josh leaving -- and taking most of the crew. Didn't see it coming. Didn't have a plan. And hoped he could squeak by with his old buddies?

 

[jdlboot14]

The most telling thing was the article that essentially confirmed BB had way more control over the play calling than everyone recognized.
So if MP is taking this much of a public hit for what was a lot of BB failing at offensive game plans, then that IS a loyal companion - and provides reasoning to why BB feels responsible and doesn't want to fire either MP or JJ.
However, JJ staying in ANY capacity on the sidelines seems like another horrible idea. It's clear he is a team destroyer.

 

[PatsFan2]

The most telling thing was the article that essentially confirmed BB had way more control over the play calling than everyone recognized.
So if MP is taking this much of a public hit for what was a lot of BB failing at offensive game plans, then that IS a loyal companion - and provides reasoning to why BB feels responsible and doesn't want to fire either MP or JJ.
However, JJ staying in ANY capacity on the sidelines seems like another horrible idea. It's clear he is a team destroyer.

The NY Football Giants endorses your message.

 

[Snooky97]

Some interesting names here that BOB worked with that could be coming onto the staff.

 

[Zuma]

Some interesting names here that BOB worked with that could be coming onto the staff.

Probably not a popular opinion but I'm OK with him replacing Caley as TE coach.

 

[Steve102]

The NY Football Giants endorses your message.

 

[venecol]

I don’t get the point of repeating it. Why would a fan of the most successful franchise and coach in history feel the need to harp on what went wrong during that tenure? What does that accomplish?
Isn’t the best approach to look forward to the future, revel in the success and accept the failures, given the situation that the successes have been greater than anyone has ever had and the failures fewer?
I don’t understand the interest in focussing on the negative.

Lol, this is a football forum for the New England Patriots. That means we discuss news about the team. This story has gone national. It's exposed Bill's massive blunder and questionable decision making.

You, like many others are living in the past. A past that included many successful seasons w/ a totally different group of players and coaches. The dynasty is DOA. It's time to look at the future. Part of looking at the future is evaluating what's happening in the recent past and the present.

Facts are Bill's performance in the recent past is subpar. Fact is Bill is getting older by the day. Fact is Bill's at an age when 97% of coaches have already retired. He's failed to win a playoff game four years in a row. He's failed to win the division three years in a row. He's missed the playoffs and had two losing seasons in 2 of the last 3 years. His record in the last 3 years is 25-26 (.490).

Now we're finding out what a sh*t show this season was on the "coaching" side which is supposed to be his forte. If you don't think this isn't something that needs to be discussed, you're in the wrong forum.

 

[PatsFan2]

Lol, this is a football forum for the New England Patriots. That means we discuss news about the team. This story has gone national. It's exposed Bill's massive blunder and questionable decision making.

You, like many others are living in the past. A past that included many successful seasons w/ a totally different group of players and coaches. The dynasty is DOA. It's time to look at the future. Part of looking at the future is evaluating what's happening in the recent past and the present.

Facts are Bill's performance in the recent past is subpar. Fact is Bill is getting older by the day. Fact is Bill's at an age when 97% of coaches have already retired. He's failed to win a playoff game four years in a row. He's failed to win the division three years in a row. He's missed the playoffs and had two losing seasons in 2 of the last 3 years. His record in the last 3 years is 25-26 (.490).

Now we're finding out what a sh*t show this season was on the "coaching" side which is supposed to be his forte. If you don't think this isn't something that needs to be discussed, you're in the wrong forum.

venecol who's got there under twisted or in a bunch??

 

[TomPatriot]

The NY Football Giants endorses your message.

Including the ownership.

 

[venecol]

Can't we just admit Bill made massive massive mistake? No he was some genius to sabotage a season to wait for O'Brien.

He underestimated how tough calling an offense is. It was pure hubris. If the Jets hired a DC to call offense and the results were this bad we would laugh at them.

This is the kind of move that if he wasn't Belichick gets a coach fired.

On the plus side it seems he accepted responsibility and now we have a real OC. It's the same as Bill overruling his scouts and the pats changing their drafting methods in 2020 which has lead to some pretty good drafts each year since.

When the pats lowballed Brady with 1 year deals and let him go without even a phonecall from Bill we were told "you can't reward someone based on past performance!" Yet at the same time we are supposed to give Bill a pass for his poor decisions because of his past. 2020 was a disaster as Brady won a Superbowl and showed he was not washed. 2021 was a step in the right direction...and 2022 a MASSIVE step back.

2023 needs to be at least a success as 2021 if not much better. Patriots need to add talent to this roster and actually compete.

Bedard basically broke this story a year ago and posters here said he was trash, a click-bater with no connections to the Patriots. We now see that pretty much everything Bedard was saying throughout the offseason and season was true. His take on the bridge year master plan nonsense.

"Yeah, this was part of Bill's plan. Patricia was just a placehold-ah. He knew he had Billy O'Brien in his back pocket the whole time, kid. Bill's still playing chess."

If you really believe that, we should have a Santa Claus discussion.

It's complete and utter rubbish. Fantasy-land stuff.

With Tom Brady off still doing his thing (mostly), the Patriots have to still be special in some way, even though they are just 24-25 since TB12 went out the door, and are now closer to the AFC East basement on an annual basis than the top. The talent level largely doesn't make the Patriots one-of-a-kind anymore, so belief must fall on the Altar of Belichick for the faithful that refuses to admit the new reality that the Patriots are just another NFL team, no matter how many penalties, blocked punts, screen passes and game management screwups they see on a weekly basis. When you've enjoyed 20-plus years of superiority over the rest of the NFL, it must be difficult to adjust to the new NFL-world order. I get it.

But in the real world, the Patriots are no longer special — especially Belichick, although as a coach he's still pretty damn good.

The O'Brien stuff, though, is a crock of something.

1. If this was just a one-year bridge year — especially to O'Brien — you don't do anything the Patriots did this year.

If O'Brien was the guy all along, that meant Mac Jones and the rest of the offense would be running the Patriots' offense in 2021 and 2023 (and beyond). You do not spend the bridge year of 2022 wasting an entire training camp — and your first-round QB's entire second season — learning a mostly new scheme with new terminology. You don't take away a veteran center's ability to work with the QB — always a bedrock of the Patriots' system — to make sure the protection was sound, and the run blocking on point.

If this was just a one-year thing, then Belichick would have promoted the most senior offensive coach, Nick Caley, and had him continue to build on what Jones and the 2021 free agent class learned in their first seasons. Belichick wouldn't have cared if Caley was just waiting for his contract to run out and leave because he had O'Brien coming back. Belichick would have wisely used Caley for continuity's sake, and this season would have been much better on offense. Then it was time to be a real contender again in 2023. You also would have had Matt Patricia concentrate on the offensive line to aid that dumpster fire more.

Instead, we're supposed to believe the Patriots just wasted a year — going way backward — because of some Belichick masterplan? It literally makes no sense."

Boston Sports Journal

Boston's fast-growing, fully-credentialed, flying-everywhere collection of professional journalists covering Patriots, Red Sox, Bruins, Celtics and more…

www.bostonsportsjournal.com

 

[captain stone]

Probably not a popular opinion but I'm OK with him replacing Caley as TE coach.

Looks like a Slappy once removed, but Almost Anyone's > Caley I suppose...

I still prefer that they hire a TEs coach with successful, decade-plus, NFL-caliber experience this time around... Same with the OL coach.

 

[upstater1]

Some interesting names here that BOB worked with that could be coming onto the staff.

This guy is a top candidate in my book. When you have a chance to hire a coach who practices the alphabet tongue technique even during a game, you take it. It worked for the defense.

 

[Steve102]

Bedard basically broke this story a year ago and posters here said he was trash, a click-bater with no connections to the Patriots. We now see that pretty much everything Bedard was saying throughout the offseason and season was true. His take on the bridge year master plan nonsense.

"Yeah, this was part of Bill's plan. Patricia was just a placehold-ah. He knew he had Billy O'Brien in his back pocket the whole time, kid. Bill's still playing chess."

If you really believe that, we should have a Santa Claus discussion.

It's complete and utter rubbish. Fantasy-land stuff.

With Tom Brady off still doing his thing (mostly), the Patriots have to still be special in some way, even though they are just 24-25 since TB12 went out the door, and are now closer to the AFC East basement on an annual basis than the top. The talent level largely doesn't make the Patriots one-of-a-kind anymore, so belief must fall on the Altar of Belichick for the faithful that refuses to admit the new reality that the Patriots are just another NFL team, no matter how many penalties, blocked punts, screen passes and game management screwups they see on a weekly basis. When you've enjoyed 20-plus years of superiority over the rest of the NFL, it must be difficult to adjust to the new NFL-world order. I get it.

But in the real world, the Patriots are no longer special — especially Belichick, although as a coach he's still pretty damn good.

The O'Brien stuff, though, is a crock of something.

1. If this was just a one-year bridge year — especially to O'Brien — you don't do anything the Patriots did this year.

If O'Brien was the guy all along, that meant Mac Jones and the rest of the offense would be running the Patriots' offense in 2021 and 2023 (and beyond). You do not spend the bridge year of 2022 wasting an entire training camp — and your first-round QB's entire second season — learning a mostly new scheme with new terminology. You don't take away a veteran center's ability to work with the QB — always a bedrock of the Patriots' system — to make sure the protection was sound, and the run blocking on point.

If this was just a one-year thing, then Belichick would have promoted the most senior offensive coach, Nick Caley, and had him continue to build on what Jones and the 2021 free agent class learned in their first seasons. Belichick wouldn't have cared if Caley was just waiting for his contract to run out and leave because he had O'Brien coming back. Belichick would have wisely used Caley for continuity's sake, and this season would have been much better on offense. Then it was time to be a real contender again in 2023. You also would have had Matt Patricia concentrate on the offensive line to aid that dumpster fire more.

Instead, we're supposed to believe the Patriots just wasted a year — going way backward — because of some Belichick masterplan? It literally makes no sense."

Boston Sports Journal

Boston's fast-growing, fully-credentialed, flying-everywhere collection of professional journalists covering Patriots, Red Sox, Bruins, Celtics and more…

www.bostonsportsjournal.com

I think we are beating the dead horse, bud. Bill 100% was wrong. I think he thought that FM/JJ could handle this with his supervision. I don't think it was Bill's masterplan, it was his master screw up. I don't think in a million years he thought these guys would foul this thing up as bad as they did.

I'm part of the guys that used to sit at the Altar of Belichick, as you say. An aside: I seem to remember Parcells using that term: sit at the altar an learn. To your point, what he did in the past is not the point, it's what he is doing now. 100% deserves to be criticized.

Re: Bedard. I find him to be a little smug. Comes off as the smartest guy in the room on his podcast, but he's not nearly as smart as he thinks he is. I think he was 0-4 on Wildcard weekend picks. I was listening to it while plowing snow this week, and remember thinking that he was way wrong, and his podcast didn't age well. (i listened after the games) I don't know the exact record, but I do know I laughed at him while he spouted off how XYZ was going to happen.

 

[archstanton543]

Bedard basically broke this story a year ago and posters here said he was trash, a click-bater with no connections to the Patriots. We now see that pretty much everything Bedard was saying throughout the offseason and season was true. His take on the bridge year master plan nonsense.

"Yeah, this was part of Bill's plan. Patricia was just a placehold-ah. He knew he had Billy O'Brien in his back pocket the whole time, kid. Bill's still playing chess."

If you really believe that, we should have a Santa Claus discussion.

It's complete and utter rubbish. Fantasy-land stuff.

With Tom Brady off still doing his thing (mostly), the Patriots have to still be special in some way, even though they are just 24-25 since TB12 went out the door, and are now closer to the AFC East basement on an annual basis than the top. The talent level largely doesn't make the Patriots one-of-a-kind anymore, so belief must fall on the Altar of Belichick for the faithful that refuses to admit the new reality that the Patriots are just another NFL team, no matter how many penalties, blocked punts, screen passes and game management screwups they see on a weekly basis. When you've enjoyed 20-plus years of superiority over the rest of the NFL, it must be difficult to adjust to the new NFL-world order. I get it.

But in the real world, the Patriots are no longer special — especially Belichick, although as a coach he's still pretty damn good.

The O'Brien stuff, though, is a crock of something.

1. If this was just a one-year bridge year — especially to O'Brien — you don't do anything the Patriots did this year.

If O'Brien was the guy all along, that meant Mac Jones and the rest of the offense would be running the Patriots' offense in 2021 and 2023 (and beyond). You do not spend the bridge year of 2022 wasting an entire training camp — and your first-round QB's entire second season — learning a mostly new scheme with new terminology. You don't take away a veteran center's ability to work with the QB — always a bedrock of the Patriots' system — to make sure the protection was sound, and the run blocking on point.

If this was just a one-year thing, then Belichick would have promoted the most senior offensive coach, Nick Caley, and had him continue to build on what Jones and the 2021 free agent class learned in their first seasons. Belichick wouldn't have cared if Caley was just waiting for his contract to run out and leave because he had O'Brien coming back. Belichick would have wisely used Caley for continuity's sake, and this season would have been much better on offense. Then it was time to be a real contender again in 2023. You also would have had Matt Patricia concentrate on the offensive line to aid that dumpster fire more.

Instead, we're supposed to believe the Patriots just wasted a year — going way backward — because of some Belichick masterplan? It literally makes no sense."

Boston Sports Journal

Boston's fast-growing, fully-credentialed, flying-everywhere collection of professional journalists covering Patriots, Red Sox, Bruins, Celtics and more…

www.bostonsportsjournal.com

Hopefully this is the last nail in this particular coffin.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I don't see even that working despite past success. If the Herald article has a grain of truth Judge is now locker room poison.

Agreed but didn’t he make the trip with other coaches to the senior bowl? Leads me to believe hes here for good

 

[State]

Of the mistakes Belichick had made the past season, the Wynn extension and moving him to RT screams incompetence on multiple levels.

Here is a guy with little competitive fire but excellent technique. He’s not a leader—even in the unit he plays for. He is not intelligent.

He’s the anti-Matt Light.

He lost millions on his next contract with whomever with his lack of preparation, both physical and mental. And then he copped an attitude by being moved from “his” position.

On top of that Belichick never replaced the opening by the Karras departure. Unless perennial practice squad denizen Ferentz can be considered up to the task. He is not.

I think Patricia focusing solely on OL can be the coach along with Yates. But this group could benefit from an established new guy.

 

[Snooky97]

 

[Ring 6]

Lol, this is a football forum for the New England Patriots. That means we discuss news about the team. This story has gone national. It's exposed Bill's massive blunder and questionable decision making.

You, like many others are living in the past. A past that included many successful seasons w/ a totally different group of players and coaches. The dynasty is DOA. It's time to look at the future. Part of looking at the future is evaluating what's happening in the recent past and the present.

Facts are Bill's performance in the recent past is subpar. Fact is Bill is getting older by the day. Fact is Bill's at an age when 97% of coaches have already retired. He's failed to win a playoff game four years in a row. He's failed to win the division three years in a row. He's missed the playoffs and had two losing seasons in 2 of the last 3 years. His record in the last 3 years is 25-26 (.490).

Now we're finding out what a sh*t show this season was on the "coaching" side which is supposed to be his forte. If you don't think this isn't something that needs to be discussed, you're in the wrong forum.

Of course you know I did not say don’t discuss it. I asked what the value was of saying “I’ll be repeating it”.

The same to you. Nothing you said here is anything you haven’t said 100 times. What is the value of saying it over and over again? What do you gain from that?

Everyone who visits this board even sporadically has no question that you are antiBelichick that you want him gone. How many times do you need to harp on your opinion? What are we done yet? Do you want to PM someone who may not have ready the other 1000 posts?

It would seem that your enjoyment in being a fan is to complain. It seems that you lied in wait during the dynasty to finally be able to complain and it’s given you a new lease on life.
Personally, I look at what Bill Belichick has done with this franchise and if he coaches til 2050 and never wins anything, he accomplished more than I could have ever expected in 2000.
Personally, I recognize that a HC/GM over a 20 year period makes a million decisions and the best probably get about 55% of them right. I am thankful for the 55% right that produced previously unattainable success, and I can accept the 45% because they are fewer than anyone else.
Appreciating the success does not mean being any happier with the failures, it just means being grounded to reality. Ignoring the success and *****ing and moaning about the failures, in the face of unprecedented success, is the epitome of being entitled about something you have nothing to do with.


And I’ll ask again, what does incessantly repeating the negativity accomplish?
Let’s say we stipulate everything you said in this post, can we now not have to keep reading it day after day after day?

 

[rochrist]

I think we are beating the dead horse, bud. Bill 100% was wrong. I think he thought that FM/JJ could handle this with his supervision. I don't think it was Bill's masterplan, it was his master screw up. I don't think in a million years he thought these guys would foul this thing up as bad as they did.

I'm part of the guys that used to sit at the Altar of Belichick, as you say. An aside: I seem to remember Parcells using that term: sit at the altar an learn. To your point, what he did in the past is not the point, it's what he is doing now. 100% deserves to be criticized.

Re: Bedard. I find him to be a little smug. Comes off as the smartest guy in the room on his podcast, but he's not nearly as smart as he thinks he is. I think he was 0-4 on Wildcard weekend picks. I was listening to it while plowing snow this week, and remember thinking that he was way wrong, and his podcast didn't age well. (i listened after the games) I don't know the exact record, but I do know I laughed at him while he spouted off how XYZ was going to happen.

Bedard has become garbage. He's Michael Felger in a fat suit only not as good at it. He's clearly got an agenda now and I look at ANYTHING he puts out with a great deal of skepticism.

 

[PaulThePat]

Bedard has become garbage.

To be fair to Bedard he was incredibly negative on the Pats offensive displays during training camp. Basically called them hot garbage. He wasn't wrong.