Malcolm Mitchell in 2018?

[Chuck Walden]

"...occasional bad pick..."

Occasional...that's a good one...

Do you pay attention to the rest of the league? Like, do you realize how often draft picks don't pan out? I'm not gonna defend the annual out-of-nowhere-second-round-safety, but Belichick drafts better than most of the league. Especially considering he hasn't had much draft capital the past few seasons

 

[captain stone]

The out-of-nowhere picks, and there are WAY too many of them, are the ones that ALWAYS fail...yet the Emperor continues to make them, despite the incontrovertible evidence.

And aside from the two picks stolen from us, whose fault is it that there hasn't been as much draft capital the past few seasons?

 

[Ring 6]

The out-of-nowhere picks, and there are WAY too many of them, are the ones that ALWAYS fail...yet the Emperor continues to make them, despite the incontrovertible evidence.

And aside from the two picks stolen from us, whose fault is it that there hasn't been as much draft capital the past few seasons?

As many unexpected (which just means Kiper and crew rank them differently) make it as dont.
There isn’t draft capital because we pick at the end of every round.

 

[MUFC7]

Do you pay attention to the rest of the league? Like, do you realize how often draft picks don't pan out? I'm not gonna defend the annual out-of-nowhere-second-round-safety, but Belichick drafts better than most of the league. Especially considering he hasn't had much draft capital the past few seasons

Yeah I get where you coming from but let's be honest here ... It's been dire for the last 5 years. The last Pro Bowler (not even mentioning All-Pros) the Pats drafted was Jamie Collins. M. Butler certainly played at that level but just didn't get in. That's the next huge problem the Patriots had the last years. They can't resign their star players.

Out of the big 4 that should've been our core by now (C. Jones, Collins, Hightower and Butler) only Hightower is still with the team. If you look at every individual and their reasons you can see why it didn't work out or why BB just went with a superior player in Gilmore. But lets say Flowers has the break out season we all know he is capable of. Can they keep him?

So I don't have problems with not hitting on some draft picks but it's been years since the Pats really hit a home run draft pick and if they do can they extend him?

 

[supafly]

Yeah I get where you coming from but let's be honest here ... It's been dire for the last 5 years. The last Pro Bowler (not even mentioning All-Pros) the Pats drafted was Jamie Collins. M. Butler certainly played at that level but just didn't get in. That's the next huge problem the Patriots had the last years. They can't resign their star players.

Out of the big 4 that should've been our core by now (C. Jones, Collins, Hightower and Butler) only Hightower is still with the team. If you look at every individual and their reasons you can see why it didn't work out or why BB just went with a superior player in Gilmore. But lets say Flowers has the break out season we all know he is capable of. Can they keep him?

So I don't have problems with not hitting on some draft picks but it's been years since the Pats really hit a home run draft pick and if they do can they extend him?

While signing players to second contracts is obviously necessary to retain some level of talent and even physically field a team, we should remember that these decisions to pass are what contributes to their draft replacement model of success.

Replacing guys like Shane Vereen, Logan Ryan, etc with cheap draft picks after their first deal helps to free up cap space in other areas, and (hopefully) helps to build a better, overall team. Of course it would be nice to keep some of the core youth together, too. Collins, Butler, and Chandler Jones all come to mind—although they were all pretty expensive, too. Ultimately, it’s always in Belichick we trust, as difficult as it may initially appear from the fanbase’s perspective. I think Belichick has proven that he’ll pay top dollar market value for the right player, so Flowers could be that guy. I wouldn’t hold my breath for both Flowers AND Mason, however.

 

[Deus Irae]

While signing players to second contracts is obviously necessary to retain some level of talent and even physically field a team, we should remember that these decisions to pass are what contributes to their draft replacement model of success.

Replacing guys like Shane Vereen, Logan Ryan, etc with cheap draft picks after their first deal helps to free up cap space in other areas, and (hopefully) helps to build a better, overall team.

That's probably BB's greatest strength as a manager of personnel. With few exceptions, he seems to know who to cut bait on. He may not always get the year right, and he's been completely wrong a few times, but he's generally excellent in this area.

 

[Joker]

You are looking at the greatest 17 year run in NFL history...yet you sit at your terminals pounding out vicious excoriations of the BB led Patriots as if the team has been an abject, utter failure for a decade and a half. YOU all could not do a better job if you had a thousand years to work at it...but yeah, you all are "THE KNOWERS OF THINGS". How the hell do any of you ever ENJOY a goddamned game?

 

[Chuck Walden]

Yeah I get where you coming from but let's be honest here ... It's been dire for the last 5 years. The last Pro Bowler (not even mentioning All-Pros) the Pats drafted was Jamie Collins. M. Butler certainly played at that level but just didn't get in. That's the next huge problem the Patriots had the last years. They can't resign their star players.

Out of the big 4 that should've been our core by now (C. Jones, Collins, Hightower and Butler) only Hightower is still with the team. If you look at every individual and their reasons you can see why it didn't work out or why BB just went with a superior player in Gilmore. But lets say Flowers has the break out season we all know he is capable of. Can they keep him?

So I don't have problems with not hitting on some draft picks but it's been years since the Pats really hit a home run draft pick and if they do can they extend him?

There was no way to keep Jones (who always falters down the stretch), Collins (hasn’t done much with Cleveland), HT, and Butler and still build a complete roster. HT is definitely the one you build around, and Gilmore is better than Butler. BB handled that situation as well as you can.
The Pats have drafted some good guys over the past few seasons. Trey Flowers, Joe Thuney, Shaq Mason and David Andrews are all good starters, and we’ve brought in a lot of good depth.
And nobody makes better trades than Belichick. KVN for a seventh, getting one year of a cheap Cooks and then getting a better pick than the one you gave up, all the moves he made this off-season look good on paper. Really the only bad trade was letting Jimmy go for a second, but there was no way to keep him and Brady. Should’ve got more for him, but oh well. That and the Marsh trade (where he gave up nothing) are basically the only bad moves in the last five years or so

 

[PatsDeb]

I think that he’s a camp casualty this year if he can’t get on the field. I had high hopes for him but him missing time is concerning.

I'm surprised he's lasted as long as he has at this point. You've got to feel bad for the guy that he can't get on the field, but he hasn't played for a long time.

 

[mgteich]

My hope is that Brown shows enough to be extended. The cost would be a lot less than Mason.

I wouldn’t hold my breath for both Flowers AND Mason, however.

 

[mgteich]

Agreed.

My bottom line is that our choices were to keep these players, or to continue to win 12 games a season and contend for the SB every year. I strongly support Belichick's approach.

There was no way to keep Jones (who always falters down the stretch), Collins (hasn’t done much with Cleveland), HT, and Butler and still build a complete roster. HT is definitely the one you build around, and Gilmore is better than Butler. BB handled that situation as well as you can.
The Pats have drafted some good guys over the past few seasons. Trey Flowers, Joe Thuney, Shaq Mason and David Andrews are all good starters, and we’ve brought in a lot of good depth.
And nobody makes better trades than Belichick. KVN for a seventh, getting one year of a cheap Cooks and then getting a better pick than the one you gave up, all the moves he made this off-season look good on paper. Really the only bad trade was letting Jimmy go for a second, but there was no way to keep him and Brady. Should’ve got more for him, but oh well. That and the Marsh trade (where he gave up nothing) are basically the only bad moves in the last five years or so

 

[goheels22002]

You are looking at the greatest 17 year run in NFL history...yet you sit at your terminals pounding out vicious excoriations of the BB led Patriots as if the team has been an abject, utter failure for a decade and a half.

Don't underestimate us, Joker. We're pounding out much more than just "vicious excoriations," I'll have you know.

 

[Chuck Walden]

Agreed.

My bottom line is that our choices were to keep these players, or to continue to win 12 games a season and contend for the SB every year. I strongly support Belichick's approach.

Yeah it's worked out pretty well

 

[captain stone]

...There isn’t draft capital because we pick at the end of every round.

That's not the same thing.

 

[captain stone]

There was no way to keep Jones (who always falters down the stretch), Collins (hasn’t done much with Cleveland), HT, and Butler and still build a complete roster. HT is definitely the one you build around, and Gilmore is better than Butler. BB handled that situation as well as you can.
The Pats have drafted some good guys over the past few seasons. Trey Flowers, Joe Thuney, Shaq Mason and David Andrews are all good starters, and we’ve brought in a lot of good depth.
And nobody makes better trades than Belichick. KVN for a seventh, getting one year of a cheap Cooks and then getting a better pick than the one you gave up, all the moves he made this off-season look good on paper. Really the only bad trade was letting Jimmy go for a second, but there was no way to keep him and Brady. Should’ve got more for him, but oh well. That and the Marsh trade (where he gave up nothing) are basically the only bad moves in the last five years or so.

More or less agree with first paragraph.

I would not, however, have made the trade for the Lost Little Cookie; I would've kept the pick and used it to draft our (now the Saints') LT of the Future, Ryan Ramczyk (or even Dion Dawkins, Buffalo's LT of the Future). We also lost last year's 3rd-rounder and this year's 4th-rounder in the process.

Agree with the Jimmy G situation.

Bill absolutely did Not give up nothing for Marsh, however...and the preceding two moves were Not basically the only bad moves of the past 5 or so years.

 

[Chuck Walden]

More or less agree with first paragraph.

I would not, however, have made the trade for the Lost Little Cookie; I would've kept the pick and used it to draft our (now the Saints') LT of the Future, Ryan Ramczyk (or even Dion Dawkins, Buffalo's LT of the Future). We also lost last year's 3rd-rounder and this year's 4th-rounder in the process.

Agree with the Jimmy G situation.

Bill absolutely did Not give up nothing for Marsh, however...and the preceding two moves were Not basically the only bad moves of the past 5 or so years.

I'm happy with th Cooks trade, and Garcia was going to be the Solder replacement were it not for the blood clots. And we got Wynn with the Cooks pick, so we probably did get our LT of the future (or LG, he can do that).
Marsh was essentially traded straight up for Justin Coleman. Obviously you'd rather have Coleman, but it's not like we gave up an All-Pro or anything

 

[denverpatsfan]

He won't play any meaningful time this season. Sad but I am not hopeful.

 

[aluminum seats]

I'm surprised he's lasted as long as he has at this point. You've got to feel bad for the guy that he can't get on the field, but he hasn't played for a long time.

Well, he missed last year. He was a key ingredient winning the last super bowl.

 

[captain stone]

...Marsh was essentially traded straight up for Justin Coleman. Obviously you'd rather have Coleman, but it's not like we gave up an All-Pro or anything

Marsh was NOT traded straight-up for Coleman, "essentially" or otherwise.

 

[Chuck Walden]

Marsh was NOT traded straight-up for Coleman, essentially or otherwise.

We traded Coleman to Seattle for a seventh-round pick, then used that pick and a fifth-rounder for Marsh. Again, bad trade, but we gave up practically nothing to do it