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Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?


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Does anyone know if the records get destroyed with this type of misdemeanor if the perp pleads guilty and completes his sentence? It may be the least humiliating way out for Kraft if so.
 
I believe it was a Kraft impersonator and I’d bet the ranch that this was Woody The Woodman Johnson AKA the Piccadilly Pipelayer AKA the Meadowlands Minuteman in disguise
 
How much was this sting motivated by the need for law enforcement to look like they are not ignoring such crimes after Epstein skated?
The investigation fair predates the Epstein decision.
 
Look it. The sign didn't say "Free Massage" did it? I dont understand you guys here that find that he paid money at the desk so convincing. I think they're going to need a lot more than that. Maybe they have it but the fact he paid money doesn't do it unless they also have the audio
 
Much earlier in the thread my comment was it is all about the money shot ...
If they have that ... then he really has no way to clear himself ... public opinion wise.

Personally - I don't really care but it's not a good look for someone whose presence
alone guarantees a lot of fund raising money ... he'll survive it somehow.
 
His argument will be that he paid for a massage and it will be up to the prosecution to prove anything else. Sex on video is not proof of a financial transaction.

Yes, I know. That's why I called it circumstantial evidence.
 
Look it. The sign didn't say "Free Massage" did it? I dont understand you guys here that find that he paid money at the desk so convincing. I think they're going to need a lot more than that. Maybe they have it but the fact he paid money doesn't do it unless they also have the audio

For my part. I’d hoped he just was not there at all. The whole thing just doesn’t seem believable.
 
Just based on how he is behaving since news came out, I think he knows he is on solid grounds. I also think the news was pushed a tad early by perhaps an over zealot football fan. Let the chips fall.
 
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Defenses to Solicitation of Prostitution Charges
For a basic solicitation charge, the defenses are usually focused on whether or not an agreement actually existed. Essentially the defense is that the two people were discussing having a sexual encounter, but the encounter was not contingent of the exchange of a fee. Another defense is to simply counter that the solicitation was not for sexual relations, but rather a “flirtation.” This defense strives to refute the intent and fee requirements of a basic solicitation of prostitution charge.


The videotape will either show or will not show that a clear agreement was reached between Kraft and the worker of an exchange of money for the rub and tug.

this is what it will all come down to.
 
I’ve been researching weather or not we could lose draft picks but it seems clear that it’s not really possible. However, goodell has that one clause where he could do basically anything.

Could goodell take picks?

The answer should be no, because what Kraft did, did not result in an unfair competitive gain for the team. That was the logic behind the ruling for the Irsay suspension.

But you never know.
 
A little background on the area. Both Parcells and Belichick have a season residence which is on the south side of US-1. From the day spa it's a 2-minute walk. One of Jupiter's best restaurants (The Food Shack) is also located in the same strip mall. The Asia Spa is 4 doors door. I've walked passed it many times and never thought anything strange was going on. However, some of my friends say that they have seen Chinese ladies cooking food on hot plates out back.

As a full time resident, I find the timing of the bust troubling. There have been numerous Yelp reviews about the questionable business practices going back to 2014/2015. The Jupiter health inspector (2 years ago) raised concerns that they were signs of women living in the spa, including rooms with beds, clothing, and even a kitchen.

The spa was actually advertising the Tokyo Ultimate 4 Hand" massage. NO JOKE. Why now?
 
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I'll elaborate, you can't see the forest for the trees.
My bad. Evidently, I'm not privy to the inside information. Quite honestly, I could care less what happens to Kraft. OTH, I'm interested in what happens to the sex slave, which was exposed.
 
I do not see reason at all to mention draft picks on this matter...
That was true of Spygate too, and it didn't stop them. But at least you can make an argument that this has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Patriots, and that might help the league keep its fangs to itself.
 
Legally (and many would argue that morally as well), the law is built on the concept of foreseeable risks. In other words, if you walk into a run and tug parlor, a reasonable person would be taking a risk that s/he is engaging in illegal prostitution, but a reasonable person would not likely (and the actual charge against Kraft speaks to this) know they are also engaging in, supporting, or committing a higher crime involving human trafficking.

Not so.

Some crimes are "strict liability" -- if the state of affairs obtains then you have committed the crime even if you reasonably believed that it didn't. Apparently, in the U.S., that is true of underage sex ("statutory rape"). It's up to the older person to make sure -- and there are, obviously, good reasons why that is so.

In the U.K. (well, England and Wales) although prostitution is legal, sex with someone who has been "subjected to force" is just such a "strict liability" offence.

So, if RKK had done this in the U.K., he would be in trouble, not for paying for sex, but for paying for sex with someone who was working under coercion.
 
Does anyone know if the records get destroyed with this type of misdemeanor if the perp pleads guilty and completes his sentence? It may be the least humiliating way out for Kraft if so.

How would this in any way mitigate the “humiliation “? Heck, Goodell destroying the tapes only emboldened the haters to cling more tightly to their cheating fantasies.

For all of you “he should have known” high horse riders. He paid with a credit card for goodness sakes. Do you honestly think he’s dumb enough to do that if he had any idea some or all of the massage therapists where sex slaves?

The more I hear about this the more I understand why his attorneys were so adamant in their statement on Friday. If I was him, I’d fight this to the very end. I’d get the police officials and the district attorney staff on the stand and make them explain why they let operations continue believing any of the staff was doing this against their wishes. I’d make the police officers testify as to looking through a peep hole watching as the sex slaves were degraded. Think about that for a minute and ask yourself if this is how law enforcement should work? “I know the woman is giving him hand stimulation against her will, but I’m going to watch as she does it, so I can arrest him for it”. Does that sound right to you?

Fight it. The damage had already been done in the court of public opinion. There is no video of the act, and any defense attorney worth their salt would would love a chance to cross examine the cop who watched. It will not make you look better but the police and prosecutors will come out of it looking worse.
 
My thoughts.

#1 This is first and foremost the fault of every voter in the USA. For years we have refused to change the laws and for years it has led to bad outcomes. When you keep prostitution illegal things like human trafficking or under age prostitution become more common and harder to control. Not to mention the spread of disease and the abuse of pimps. This has gone on way too long. Just make it legal, control it, tax it and be done with it.

That worked so very well when we ended prohibition. Not. Organized crime is organized crime, it doesn't care HOW it abuses people, people sick enough to do this to women will just find some other way to profit on the same thing. And I do NOT want the kind of operators that do this sort of thing moving into the legally permissible space, which they'd be at a competitive advantage to do if prostitution was legalized.

And I'm sorry, if you want to solve the human trafficking problem in America, legalizing the industry that drives it is NOT the correct solution. God, do you have any idea how hard we already have it trying to make sure other forms of workers aren't illegally imported and exploited, without legitimizing a profession that has a legitimate profit motive for bringing in "professionals" as young and vulnerable as possible? You'd NEVER solve the problem that way, and not only that, you'd have just become Gold Mine Central for the crooked operators that are already in the business. You would have this nation become a place where illegal prostitute slaves could be "laundered" and it would be all the harder to prove that any given prostitute was illegal in the first place.

Legalizing prostitution does not solve the problem of human trafficking -- it metastisizes it. Do NOT open that door!

#2 Kraft shouldn't have gone to that particular place. While the owner of a brothel or a massage parlor will no doubt always try to convince clients who are curious that the ladies are willing. Most people know better than to ask as they could lead to denial of service or an angry outburst by the pimps/providers. There is no way Kraft should have known or would have been told of such women were willing or not at such a location. Best to avoid them for moral reasons. He could have easily paid for a high end escort who he knew was on the up and up. Still. Bad judgement doesn't mean a bad person.

Robert Kraft is of an age where elderly people become increasingly easy to victimize. He's got a lot of money and was flush with success and got suckered into a situation which made him vulnerable. Long story short, it's probably time to turn the franchise over to Jonathan and move Robert aside anyway. This gives Robert the perfect pretext to make the move to ease his father out of whatever executive authority he still has.

And I have no doubt at all that this would N E V E R have happened while Myra was alive, God rest her soul.

#3 The police didn't do a good job here. They had a case on all these place for months. Yet they allowed the service to continue and continue. What were they waiting for? Why let it go on? Was it just to up the arrest numbers on Johns? If so that is a pretty crappy reason. I think questions should be asked about the investigation.

I don't. Any questions for the PD here would be misdirected based on the anguish that a beloved owner made a mistake of this magnitude. Extensive investigations of brothel activity are commonplace. I've been over a couple reasons why an investigation needs to continue for awhile.

And can I be blunt here? Given the Whack-A-Mole nature of prostitution stings, if Kraft was going to be a John, there would be plenty of opportunities for him to get a piece of action, whether this particular operation was in business or not. This just happened to be the one he went to, you bet your bottom dollar that if it wasn't there, the laws of capitalism would apply, and there would be another such operation to take his "business" to. This operation is extremely lucrative, which is why it can survive the vigilance of the police in the first place. Capitalism abhors a vacuum, if there's buyers, there will eventually be a seller.

In other words, the police not closing down this particular brothel before Robert Kraft got caught with his "hand" in the "cookie jar" is completely irrelevant -- if they had been shut down, he would have visited their replacement. And given the nature of police work and his high profile, he probably would have been caught at that one too. Some things an NFL owner is just too visible to do, and being a John is one of them.
 
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