Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[40yrpatsfan]

I believe Jan 20th was the day of the AFCC game in KC...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I disagree that a reasonable person would not know there's an excellent chance the women that spa were being trafficked. Especially after already having gone there a previous time. Especially after such a spa in Newton -- next door to Brookline, where Kraft lives in MA -- was busted for trafficking in the past couple of years.

I will agree with you that he shouldn't have any legal liability re: trafficking. But he should have known that there was a really good chance the women in that joint were being trafficked, so IMHO he bears some moral/ethical responsibility to have done better and should be criticized heavily to that end.

OK upon further consideration I now agree that more likely than not, he should have known.
My initial thought when hearing about the spa was the infamous case couple years back near me in Southern Maine where the owner & smoking hot Zumba instructor was offering special services. No trafficking there.
Maine, The Way Zumba Should Be

 

[Teej]

I believe Jan 20th was the day of the AFCC game in KC...

If the date is correct, the AFCCG game had a 6:40 p.m. start time.

The incident took place in the morning and it's approximately two hours flying time to KC.

There's no conflict.

 

[Hyped]

Some more comments:

a.) Per police surveillance...I read somewhere that they got a judge's approval under the disguise of a "bomb threat" or something similar. Can't source it now.... I believe that this aspect might at least be able to be CHALLENGED in court if it doesn't fall under the "Patriot Act" as this a state issue at the moment. Not a lawyer....but that's a loop hole I see here.

b.) @QuantumMechanic , do you remember who said it was #12? Or a link? #12 isn't as bad as the others in that affidavit....one of them had some back door action...eeewww...

c.) This is a strange story....all billionaires frequenting one strip mall joint.... $79 for an hour of massage....weird....

d.) As for whether Kraft should have known that this was a trafficking joint...I don't know man. I have a maid that comes to clean my home every 3 months....I pay her in cash. I never asked to see her passport, I don't report her income to the IRS, and I pay her well (~$25/hour). I don't ask questions....and that it how it works. There was an inspector who tipped off the cops....the inspector noticed a lot of bedding, food in fridge, and etc... that's what tipped off the inspector. A client would just see the waiting room...be led down a hall way...then the massage room. Dunno.....

 

[Teej]

c.) This is a strange story....all billionaires frequenting one strip mall joint.... $79 for an hour of massage....weird....

One was charged on the East coast of FL by Vero Beach police, Kraft did his thing on the West coast in Jupiter , I think the ex-CEO of Citicorp was caught in Jupiter FL too but I might be wrong on that.

 

[Soliel]

After reading today. I’m kind of bummed. I thought he was telling the truth but he used a card and cash. That blows the wheels off my theory

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

If the date is correct, the AFCCG game had a 6:40 p.m. start time.

The incident took place in the morning and it's approximately two hours flying time to KC.

There's no conflict.

Just a man trying to release some tension before the game.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Kraft is, and should be, a laughingstock but he's being a free pass by some because he's an old man.

Bottomline, he's the equivalent of Napoleon Dynamite's older brother Kip after he met Lafawnduh and was transformed from nerd to gangsta.

Kraft is a businessman nerd that thinks he's part of the rapper crowd now and acts the part like a fool.

He’s building up his street cred.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Not in the next 2 years I think. The NFL PR team will need to mitigate this before they can indict him. I’m guessing he won’t.

I know the NFL is powerful but I’m not sure they have to power to indict BK lol.

Edit: looks like someone beat me to the punch on that one.

 

[Adam Seward]

One was charged on the East coast of FL by Vero Beach police, Kraft did his thing on the West coast in Jupiter , I think the ex-CEO of Citicorp was caught in Jupiter FL too but I might be wrong on that.

Would be pretty hard with Jupiter being an east coast city in Florida.

Want to track the Kraft jet tail# and let me know what time his flight left Florida for KC on game day?

Keep up the good work.

 

[Teej]

He’s building up his street cred.

LOL! Peace out...

 

[Steve102]

Some more comments:

d.) As for whether Kraft should have known that this was a trafficking joint...I don't know man. I have a maid that comes to clean my home every 3 months....I pay her in cash. I never asked to see her passport, I don't report her income to the IRS, and I pay her well (~$25/hour). I don't ask questions....and that it how it works. There was an inspector who tipped off the cops....the inspector noticed a lot of bedding, food in fridge, and etc... that's what tipped off the inspector. A client would just see the waiting room...be led down a hall way...then the massage room. Dunno.....

I dunno man, I think this is how it works for some of these folks from Asian coutries. I have been in the car bizz forever. I sold a new car to a guy who worked at the local Chinese resteraunt back in the late 80's. Fairly expensive car for the day. Needed a chunk of money down and a cosigner to get financed. He barely spoke any english. I was able to get that he had a wife and she would cosign. A week or so goes by, and the wife comes in. She's young enough to be his daughter, out of the Boston area, as opposed to central NH where he was located. They greeted each other, and it was clear that they did not have any kind of relationship, other than they had met before. She spoke to him privately, and then she signed up for him on the car. She was articulate, attractive, and spoke fluent english. I remember her so well because she was really attractive, and hystercial. Busting everyones balls. Anyway, she was able to dance around the fact that they didn't live together, and was able to explain in a vague manner that these guys came over from Asia and had to work off the sponsorship by working at the resteraunt for an extended period of time. He lived at a residence on the property where the resteraunt was that had a lot of people like him living there. Like a wicked lot of people. I, like you, didn't ask a lot of questions beyond what they offered up in converstation. But it's not a stretch for me to envision a whole bunch of women living in the strip mall, working off coming to the US. Does that mean that the folks that make my Poo Poo Platter and my Moo Goo Guy Pan are victims of human trafficking? I think it's likely a very grey area and not nearly as black and white as many would like to think.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

One was charged on the East coast of FL by Vero Beach police, Kraft did his thing on the West coast in Jupiter , I think the ex-CEO of Citicorp was caught in Jupiter FL too but I might be wrong on that.

Jupiter is on the East coast too, an hour South of Vero Beach. This strip center is walking distance from the Atlantic Ocean, off US 1. It is not in a seedy area at all. The center contains, among other things, the top-rated seafood restaurant in Florida, a surf shop, a pool supply store, a high-end fine art gallery, pizza joints, a Thai restaurant, an Outback steakhouse, a Taco Bell and a huge Publix grocery store.

 

[Zuma]

"We got the New England Patriots owner as he was leaving Barry Diller's pre-Oscars party Saturday afternoon in Beverly Hills ... he hurried to his ride and was mum on being implicated in a prostitution sting Friday".

Robert Kraft Seen Leaving Hollywood Party Amid Prostitution Scandal

 

[Teej]

Would be pretty hard with Jupiter being an east coast city in Florida.

Want to track the Kraft jet tail# and let me know what time his flight left Florida for KC on game day?

Keep up the good work.

My mistake, it's on the east coast. That being said, the flying time from Miami to KC is 2 hours 38 mins which is still no conflict. Keep up the lame sarcasm.

 

[Teej]

Jupiter is on the East coast too, an hour South of Vero Beach. This strip center is walking distance from the Atlantic Ocean, off US 1. It is not in a seedy area at all. The center contains, among other things, the top-rated seafood restaurant in Florida, a surf shop, a pool supply store, a high-end fine art gallery, pizza joints, a Thai restaurant, an Outback steakhouse, a Taco Bell and a huge Publix grocery store.

I thought it was near Tampa, he still could have flown to KC for the game in plenty of time and I'm sure he didn't fly commercial.

 

[robbomango]

Owners don’t give a shat. This is child’s play compared to the stuff that goes on among them.

Some more comments:

a.) Per police surveillance...I read somewhere that they got a judge's approval under the disguise of a "bomb threat" or something similar. Can't source it now.... I believe that this aspect might at least be able to be CHALLENGED in court if it doesn't fall under the "Patriot Act" as this a state issue at the moment. Not a lawyer....but that's a loop hole I see here.

b.) @QuantumMechanic , do you remember who said it was #12? Or a link? #12 isn't as bad as the others in that affidavit....one of them had some back door action...eeewww...

c.) This is a strange story....all billionaires frequenting one strip mall joint.... $79 for an hour of massage....weird....

d.) As for whether Kraft should have known that this was a trafficking joint...I don't know man. I have a maid that comes to clean my home every 3 months....I pay her in cash. I never asked to see her passport, I don't report her income to the IRS, and I pay her well (~$25/hour). I don't ask questions....and that it how it works. There was an inspector who tipped off the cops....the inspector noticed a lot of bedding, food in fridge, and etc... that's what tipped off the inspector. A client would just see the waiting room...be led down a hall way...then the massage room. Dunno.....

I'm not sure it's as obvious as people are making it out to be, unless every single massage parlor is a function of human trafficking. If some are and aren't what's the percentage? Are there more legit/non trafficking spa's than illegit?

I guess we can google the data but you'd be guessing otherwise. I've been to these places in Asia when I was younger, you walk in people are smiling and friendly the place looks decent, you'd be guessing if you thought there were some form of trafficking going on but it's ramped all over Asia and based on that knowledge I guess everyone I worked with should've known had one of these places gone down.

At best you know trafficking is going on but hope it's not happening in the establishment you go to, they certainly don't advertise it. The best way is to avoid these places I'd imagine but as someone noted the sex industry can be pretty sketchy so you are probably dammed in some way shape or form no matter what route you choose.

 

[Adam Seward]

My mistake, it's on the east coast. That being said, the flying time from Miami to KC is 2 hours 38 mins which is still no conflict. Keep up the lame sarcasm.

Just wanted the confirmation you really have no clue and are making this up as you go.

 

[mosi]

Um, that is illegal. I will happily take cash to note report you.

Wait that is illegal also. Lets just forget about it...

 

[Chevrolet]

If he used a credit card and or debit card and paid up fron t before the massage, he almost certainly did not think he was doing anything illegal, just getting a massage at a public place that legally offered massage services.
But he knew he was at a sleazy massage parlor (not a high end spa). He almost certainly knew that he would be offered a happy ending and that he would be expected to tip extra for that (certainly the second time he went)

The police report does not indicate if he tipped the lady in the room where he was receiving services.

Even with video, I think they will have to prove that he asked for the tug and rub.
If the woman asked him would you like a tug and rub, not sure that meets the definition of soliciting prostitution.

With a good lawyer, maybe he gets off the hook



He is a super smart guy, he should have known that there was a reasonably good possibility the women working in that business were being trafficked...BUT, he may not have wanted to think about or taken the time to consider that possibility. the fac that he went twice means that on his second time he knew EXACTLY what he was getting into and what kind of place it was. He was just more into momentary pleasure for himself than considering the possibility that someone was being forced by their manager to offer him a tug for $

Bottom line, in my opinion I bet the case against him gets dismissed
but while not the most heinous crime it is an embarassment and the truth is that those who use these services establish demand for trafficked women to be brought here and put into this position.