Kirk Cousins -> Broncos?

[Bill Lee]

My question on Kirk Cousins is why? He has never shown himself to be anything other than mediocre. The Patriots can't be the only team that knows how to develop QBs. If I was one of these teams, I would much rather scout the college ranks and bring in the best guy rather than pay mega-millions to one of these retreads.

If by mediocre you mean average, the problem is that pretty much all the QBs that are in the top half of most people's ranking are already locked into their roles on their teams, or will take some significant draft capital to get their teams to part with them, whereas Cousins will 'merely' take cash.

Look at how much money Brock Osweiler got, and he had next to no tape on him. Cousins has three years as a starter. As some basis for comparison, PFF ( NFL QB Rankings by PFF grade after Week 16 | NFL Analysis | Pro Football Focus ) says he's tied for 15th best QB. DEN now has Osweiler again and he's last. Signing a check to get a guy that moves you from last to mediocre is worth a lot. Of course good QB play requires good line play and good receiver play etc so it's not all on the QB, but still, it is worth a lot to get someone capable of doing the job.

Another way to look at it is to notice that Cousins has a better PFF rating than Derek Carr, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, etc, all of whom have are making serious money.

The draft is a total crap shoot. You might end up with the next Wentz or you might end up with the next bust.

As for developing them, the Pats are far above average but then again the overall batting average isn't great. Sure we have TB and JG to point to, but a lot of relatively mediocre QBs like Mallet or Cassel or (IMO) Brisette.

TL;DR: In the NFL, even mediocre QBs get paid!

 

[Ring 6]

Roethlisberger is one of the top 5 QBs of the era. That didn't stop him from putting up 2 consecutive 8-8 seasons.
Brees is one of the top 5 QBs of the era. That didn't stop him from going 7-9 four years out of five.

I'm not on the Cousins bandwagon, but some of you are going over the top on this.

But that is because Rberger and Brees ALSO WON. If their entire careers were 8-8 and 7-9 they wouldn’t be considered top 5 QBs, see rivers.
That doesn’t mean cousins can’t but he hasn’t yet.

 

[Deus Irae]

But that is because Rberger and Brees ALSO WON. If their entire careers were 8-8 and 7-9 they wouldn’t be considered top 5 QBs, see rivers.
That doesn’t mean cousins can’t but he hasn’t yet.

That ignores the reality of my post in favor of a completely irrelevant side aspect. Cousins has only been the full time starter for 3 seasons, and he got his team into the playoffs in one of them. So, when someone asks how many playoff appearances he's had, and I point out that even elite era QBs miss the playoffs in consecutive seasons, your response about them having ALSO WON is irrelevant.

 

[Ring 6]

That ignores the reality of my post in favor of a completely irrelevant side aspect. Cousins has only been the full time starter for 3 seasons, and he got his team into the playoffs in one of them. So, when someone asks how many playoff appearances he's had, and I point out that even elite era QBs miss the playoffs in consecutive seasons, your response about them having ALSO WON is irrelevant.

They wouldn’t be elite if they hadn’t won.
Perhaps cousins can match their success as well as he matched their seasons of (team success) mediocrity but he hasn’t done that yet. I think it’s premature to assume he can.

 

[varjao]

When his career is over, Kirk cousins will be the worst player to make the most money if that makes sense.

Stafford read this and immediately asked a friend to hold his beer.

 

[Deus Irae]

They wouldn’t be elite if they hadn’t won.
Perhaps cousins can match their success as well as he matched their seasons of (team success) mediocrity but he hasn’t done that yet. I think it’s premature to assume he can.

That's fine as your opinion, but it's completely irrelevant to both the question asked and my response. The question asked about playoff appearances, when Cousins has 1 appearance in 3 seasons as the starter. I noted that even two of the very best in the business missed the playoffs in consecutive seasons.

There really wasn't anything more to it than that.

 

[nabwong]

Stafford read this and immediately asked a friend to hold his beer.

I don’t know. They both suck but at least Stafford has an arm.

 

[meatface]

They have to do something, but Elway might put all his eggs into the Paxton Lynch basket

 

[Simpelton]

When his career is over, Kirk cousins will be the worst player to make the most money if that makes sense.

That's funny, because I look at Cousins and see a lot of things that made Tom Brady great. To me, Cousins is Tom Brady with less arm strength, a weaker supporting cast and much worse coaching.

I've actually been moderately curious what Bill Belichick could do with Captain Kirk under center.

 

[luuked]

They have to do something, but Elway might put all his eggs into the Paxton Lynch basket

Pretty please...

 

[nabwong]

That's funny, because I look at Cousins and see a lot of things that made Tom Brady great. To me, Cousins is Tom Brady with less arm strength, a weaker supporting cast and much worse coaching.

I've actually been moderately curious what Bill Belichick could do with Captain Kirk under center.

For some parts maybe. But Kirk is flawed in 3 areas in my opinion.

1. He doesn’t have the intangibles of being a natural leader. I don’t think anyone is fighting for Kirk.

2. He’s not a force multiplier. He doesn’t make his supporting cast better.

3. He makes the worst decisions at the most crucial times.

 

[Simpelton]

For some parts maybe. But Kirk is flawed in 3 areas in my opinion.

1. He doesn’t have the intangibles of being a natural leader. I don’t think anyone is fighting for Kirk.

2. He’s not a force multiplier. He doesn’t make his supporting cast better.

3. He makes the worst decisions at the most crucial times.

I disagree with #2. And I think that a Patriots fan is in the worst possible position to judge a guy like Cousins because we're spoiled by absolute greatness in all 3 of these categories, especially 1 and 3.

 

[GoBlue]

The problem with Cousins is he thinks hes better than what he is and then he effs up the game. Not a clutch guy at all. Maybe better than some of the bums in the NFL.

 

[PatsDeb]

Roethlisberger is one of the top 5 QBs of the era. That didn't stop him from putting up 2 consecutive 8-8 seasons.
Brees is one of the top 5 QBs of the era. That didn't stop him from going 7-9 four years out of five.

I'm not on the Cousins bandwagon, but some of you are going over the top on this.

I don't see how calling a mediocre QB "mediocre" is going over the top, but whatever. If he's better than mediocre, I'll believe it when I see it.

Edit - and I was responding to the premise of the thread which is that Denver is willing to pay big bucks for this guy. I still haven't changed my mind, with the posting of all his stats, that he's worth that.

 

[Simpelton]

The problem with Cousins is he thinks hes better than what he is and then he effs up the game. Not a clutch guy at all. Maybe better than some of the bums in the NFL.

This is what I mean by being spoiled. 18 teams in this league or more would be better by picking up Kirk Cousins. He's somewhere in the #10-15 spot in the overall QB rankings, a solid above average guy.

If he tries to do too much sometimes -- so would any quarterback feeling wins slipping away due to bad coaching or weak teams around him.

Cousins has been let down by bad leadership ahead of him and if there's any valid criticism of Cousins, it's that he wasn't able to accomplish a task fit for Sisyphus. Put the insipid sports platitudes away for a second. NO quarterback, however great, can carry a bad team, bad coach, and bad front office to the top on his own.

Cousins right now is in a spot Drew Brees would recognize easily, but he's not as good as Brees, he can't drag a terrible team all the way to mediocricy. So he has to settle for rising and falling with the vicissitudes of his incompetent senior leadership while trying to steal wins where he can. And call me crazy but I can think of a fair few wins that Cousins stole.

In a world where skill is determined by whether a quarterback is good or not a guy like Cousins or Brees is easy to underestimate, but Kirk Cousins is good enough to "do his job." He cannot also do everyone else's job too. That should not be expected of any quarterback, much less a mid tier quarterback like Cousins.