Keeping track of the defense.

[supafly]

You're an easy grader.

That’s putting it mildly.

 

[supafly]

Malcom Brown, Jordan Richards, Geneo Grissom, Cyrus Jones, Vincent Valentine, Derek Rivers, Duke Dawson.

All of their picks from the first three rounds in recent drafts. It's not hard to figure out why they suck on defense. Plus the free agent "acquisitions" like Danny Shelton.

Easley was another first rounder who didn’t work out.

 

[captain stone]

When Elandon Roberts is your 3rd LB, then you just might have a depth "issue."

 

[ashley]

When Elandon Roberts is your 3rd LB, then you just might have a depth "issue."

If he's our 3rd LB, can you imagine how bad our linebackers are that are behind him on the depth chart...Now that's a scary thought.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, we "needed" those upgrades to be a better team than the one that got the AFC Championship each of the last several seasons.

I don't think that our secondary is worse than last year. Jason McCourty has been a solid addition, and we have a good youngster in Jackson.

As far as the front the front six, Hightower is not earning his salary. However, he is an improvement over 2018, when we didn't have him. Both Van Noy and Roberts are playing better than last year. We added Bentley, but he was injured. Clayborne isn't earning his salary, and is essentially a JAG addition. Guy is playing very well indeed. Brown and Wise have been just OK. Flowers has been great, and needs to be re-signed or replaced with a another top DE.

I agree that Shelton has been a major disappointment, and that DT and run defense has been the weakness of the defense. All defenses have their weak link. NT is ours, and we are likely to address it more than once in the offseason.

QUOTE="Deus Irae, post: 5455257, member: 5686"]Disregarding the coaching changes for the moment, just so we can achieve a baseline for discussion, I think most people would acknowledge that, coming off of last year, they needed to upgrade at:

DE
DT
LB (especially coverage)

and they needed to at least maintain at

S
CB

Of those needs, which would you say have been met, and met sufficiently to have solved or avoided the problems being dealt with?[/QUOTE]

 

[Kontradiction]

Malcom Brown, Jordan Richards, Geneo Grissom, Cyrus Jones, Vincent Valentine, Derek Rivers, Duke Dawson.

All of their picks from the first three rounds in recent drafts. It's not hard to figure out why they suck on defense. Plus the free agent "acquisitions" like Danny Shelton.

Think of it like a business. Your top draft picks are your most efficient investments. You get 4-5 years of dirt cheap labor out of them and, if you hit, your "profit margins" increase year after year. So yeah, they're basically the most efficient part of your unit when you consider what you get out of them vs. the cost. When you don't hit, which this team hasn't on their top picks from 2014-2017 with this year basically being too soon to judge, you have to elsewhere to fill those needs. Considering there is a cap on what you can spend in your budget, you're often left sorting through bargain bin in hopes that you can find a gem. More often that not, you don't and you're stuck with having to pay more for lesser services. It's less efficient and hurts the unit as a whole. That's what this team has had to do recently and the results speak for themselves.

 

[VJCPatriot]

This defense is just an achilles heel. It bit us in the bit in the Superbowl. It might just bite us again in the upcoming playoff run.

Unfortunately we were unable to really shore up those deficiencies that were apparent at the beginning of the season with midseason trades.

This is a year where, if we don't advance as far as usual, where you can say BB the GM, let down BB the coach.

 

[Kontradiction]

This defense is just an achilles heel. It bit us in the bit in the Superbowl. It might just bite us again in the upcoming playoff run.

Unfortunately we were unable to really shore up those deficiencies that were apparent at the beginning of the season with midseason trades.

This is a year where, if we don't advance as far as usual, where you can say BB the GM, let down BB the coach.

The Patriots spent their top overall picks on the defensive side of the ball every year from 2012 - 2017. In that time, the last time they actually hit on that pick was 2013 - a half a decade ago. If you're looking for the root cause of the issues on that side of the ball, start there.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes, we "needed" those upgrades to be a better team than the one that got the AFC Championship each of the last several seasons.

There's no need for the quotation marks. Since the goal is to win the Lombardi, and not just to make the AFCCG or even just make the SB, yes, they needed those upgrades, because those were the weak spots. That's how this stuff works.

 

[Bonzo]

The DL in general has been a real disappointment. Kontra's stats confirm what my eyes have told me, which is that they are consistently getting blown off the ball. (Especially on the road, for whatever reason.) More than Shelton and Clayborn, I was personally hoping high for Rivers and Davis.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think a reflection back on the following thread is appropriate here:

Browns trade Shelton to Patriots


And I think that thread should be brought back up several times a year, as a reminder to the homers to be a bit more cautious before slobbering all over every move BB makes.

 

[Jimke]

So, if we're looking at a defense where the prime DT addition (Shelton) has been a complete bust to date, the prime DE addition (Clyborn) has been a disappointment to date, there's not been any upgrade at LB, and most of the DBs have stayed level or declined, I think we can start with personnel acquisition and/or development being a major part of the problem.

The Patriots are simply not spending high picks drafting defensive talent.
They prefer to trade high draft picks for castoffs and lower draft picks. The
2019 draft is supposed to be loaded on defense and the Patriots have six
picks in the top 100. Time to use the picks on defense.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Patriots are simply not spending high picks drafting defensive talent.
They prefer to trade high draft picks for castoffs and lower draft picks. The
2019 draft is supposed to be loaded on defense and the Patriots have six
picks in the top 100. Time to use the picks on defense.

From 2012-2017, the Patriots drafted 4 players in the first round. All 4 were defensive players.
From 2012-2017, the Patriots drafted 5 players in the second round. 3 of the 5 were defensive players.


The problem hasn't been a refusal to use picks on defense. That can be more accurately said about the offense. The problem has been the defensive players chosen, and what's been done with them.

Hightower
Jones
Collins
Easley
Brown
Richards
Jones


And Dawson from this year isn't exactly off to a great start, either

 

[ivanvamp]

You're an easy grader.

Maybe, but I don't think I'm wrong.

Jackson has been a nice addition. Gilmore has been excellent and Jason McCourty has been better than I thought he'd be.

Shelton and Clayborn - yuck.

LB - Bentley was off to a really good start and then got hurt. Unfortunate.

Where am I wrong?

 

[mgteich]

fair enough

the team is a failure if we don't win the SB

And the job of their board is to analyze all the reasons why we didn't win the SB each year.

There's no need for the quotation marks. Since the goal is to win the Lombardi, and not just to make the AFCCG or even just make the SB, yes, they needed those upgrades, because those were the weak spots. That's how this stuff works.

 

[mgteich]

Ignoring later draftees like Flowers makes any draft analysis incomplete.

Malcom Brown, Jordan Richards, Geneo Grissom, Cyrus Jones, Vincent Valentine, Derek Rivers, Duke Dawson.

All of their picks from the first three rounds in recent drafts. It's not hard to figure out why they suck on defense. Plus the free agent "acquisitions" like Danny Shelton.

 

[ashley]

That's not saying much for Roberts. I could play linebacker better than Roberts played it last year. He's not a player that a good defense or even an average defense should have on the field. He might make a big hit on occasion, but he'll also take horrible angles, miss tackles and get beat in coverage just too much.

As far as the front the front six, . Both Van Noy and Roberts are playing better than last year.

 

[Kontradiction]

That's not saying much for Roberts. I could play linebacker better than Roberts played it last year. He's not a player that a good defense or even an average defense should have on the field. He might make a big hit on occasion, but he'll also take horrible angles, miss tackles and get beat in coverage just too much.

I could see you shooting the A-Gap.

 

[Joey007]

Are you the Patriots defense? Because I’m more than willing to give you 69.

 

[ivanvamp]

Who are the leading contenders for the Lombardi this year? I'd suggest they are, in no particular order:

- LA Rams
- Kansas City
- New Orleans
- New England
- LA Chargers

Here are these teams' current defensive rank:

- LAR: 18th points, 18th yards (combined: 18.0)
- KC: 28th points, 30th yards (combined: 29.0)
- NO: 10th points, 14th yards (combined: 12.0)
- NE: 12th points, 22nd yards (combined: 17.0)
- LAC: 7th points, 8th yards (combined: 7.5)

So of these five top contenders, the Patriots are middle of the pack in terms of defense. None of these teams, except for maybe the Chargers, have what you'd call a really good defense. NO is above average. LAC is good. NE by points allowed is above average but by yards allowed is below average. LAR and KC are bad in both ways.

Long story short, it's pretty likely that the team that wins the Super Bowl is NOT going to have what anyone would call an elite defense. I suppose someone other than one of those five teams could win it all (Chicago? Houston? Baltimore?) but these are the top five teams and none of them have an elite defense. So most likely it's not going to take an elite defense to win it all.