Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Tunescribe, Mar 13, 2018.
Initial Reaction - New York Jets Hire Adam Gase - Turn On The Jets
He doesn't seem to grasp that the actual candidates are the ones you're evaluating. You ASSUME that if your CEO is asking a question, it better be a good one -- and your GM better ask good questions, or he's the kind of guy who'd draft a hobbit-handed USC turnover machine.
Sam Darnold: Career Stats at NFL.com
I watched "Black Mirror: Bandersnatch" tonight. It's the highest expression of the "choose your own adventure" genre, with a cool thematic twist. But I won't ruin it for you guys.
It just made me think, why not just crowd-source the JETE coaching this season? They can probably improve themselves by just going with random chance, but you can't make a buck off that... let premium JETE fans have a little controller, flash plays at them Madden-style, and let them have at it!
I'm really trying to wrap my mind around this one. I saw a report about Gase in Miami, and he had a falling out with Stephen Ross because Ross doesn't know football, according to Gase. So now he takes a position where he'll have very limited power, with a clueless owner who is filling in for his clueless brother and a GM so horrible he is defying statistical probabilities with his draft success rate.
I'm trying to find out more about this idea that Gase is great at developing young quarterbacks, which has been cited many times already by the NY media; so I figured there would be a whole bunch of QBs who developed into stars under him.
2003-2007 Detroit Lions (quarterbacks coach, offensive assistant coach)
Gase's career begins with the (bad) development of Joey Harrington, who is one of the more notable busts in the last 20 years. In 2007, the Lions drafted Drew Stanton in the second round (43rd overall.) Stanton's career was essentially a backup; he is still in the league but has never been a serious franchise quarterback.
2008 San Francisco 49ers (offensive assistant)
Not much to see here. The Niners had Shaun Hill and JT O'Sullivan at QB, and both failed during the 2008 season and beyond. No quarterback development here.
2009-2014 Denver Broncos (wr coach, quarterbacks coach, offensive coordinator)
Gase was became the quarterbacks coach in 2011, which was the Tim Tebow year. It's hard to evaluate Tebow because he ultimately won games, but his completion percentage was 46.5. The Broncos had Damaryius Thomas and Eric Decker, but Tebow's accuracy was so horrible they could only run the ball and hope to steal wins at the end of games. Tebow was out of the league within a few years and is another notable draft bust. Not really a ringing endorsement for the quarterback coach on this one, though I don't think anyone could have fixed Tebow's problems.
Manning came in 2012, so you really can't credit Gase for any development there. He was OC during their record setting season in 2013, but this was with a 5x MVP with a lot of weapons. He left a year before Osweiler, but I'd think he's mainly responsible for developing him. Osweiler played decently down the stretch for the Broncos in 2015 (his stats were pretty crappy, though, and like Manning he rode that defense.) Osweiler turned out to be a huge disappointment.
2015 Chicago Bears (offensive coordinator)
The Bears started Jay Cutler the entire season, who was 32 years old.
2016-18 Miami Dolphins (head coach)
The Dolphins hired Gase primarily to coach up Ryan Tannehill. Tannehill has had some injuries which somewhat blurs the picture, but all reports are that they will be moving on from him. Tannehill was very much a borderline franchise quarterback when Gase came in; it certainly appears the mission was not accomplished in developing him into a star, or even above average QB.
Overall (non-established QBs under Gase)
It's hard to make an argument that Gase has been successful in any way, with any young quarterback. All of these players have disappointed, many in the face of high expectations. The Jets hired him to develop Darnold, and I'm not sure they've even done this much research. Gase has zero track record of developing young QBs but has an unearned reputation that is often cited.
Or just shake the magic eight ball for fifty years.
Jets hire HC Adam Gase: A+ Grade
This is the best hire of this offseason. Adam Gase, once called the "next Bill Belichick" by Dolphins owner Stephen Ross, coached two of three seasons in Miami with his starting quarterback healthy. In those two seasons, Gase took the Dolphins took the playoffs once and had them in postseason contention in the other before Ryan Tannehill got banged up during a victory against the Patriots and was never the same after that. Tannehill, by the way, was one of the worst starters at his position in the NFL. It was quite amazing and impressive that Gase was able to keep the Dolphins in contention despite not having a viable quarterback.
This won't be a problem with the Jets. Gase will be able to coach Sam Darnold. This seems like a great fit. Gase has coached up bad quarterbacks to play well, and average quarterbacks to perform on a somewhat high level.
Gase will be able to help Darnold take the next step. This is a fantastic hire, fully worthy of an A+
Read more at NFL Coach Fire and Hire Grades: WalterFootball.com
"Dolphins fire HC Adam Gase: F- - - - - - - - - - - - Grade
Wow. WOW. WOW!!!!!!!! I can't. I just. I just can't.
Look, I knew that Dolphins owner Stephen Ross was a complete buffoon like the rest of you, but I didn't realize that he was capable of this level of stupidity. Ross may have just cemented himself as one of the worst owners in not just the NFL, but the history of sports.
When Ross hired Gase three years ago, he called Gase the "next Bill Belichick." Let's analyze what transpired in those three years:
2016: Led the Dolphins to the playoffs despite them being quarterbacked by Ryan Tannehill.
2017: Saw the season derailed by Tannehill's preseason injury. Jay Cutler buried the team, yet Miami was oddly competitive in several games, finishing 6-10.
2018: Had the Dolphins in playoff contention late in the year despite the team being quarterbacked by Tannehill. The playoff hopes ended when Tannehill suffered an injury in the second quarter against the Patriots. Tannehill was never the same after that.
Why on Earth would you fire a head coach you thought was the next Belichick who had the team competitive for a playoff spot in both years he had his starting quarterback available!? Why in the world would you not allow the "next Bill Belichick" to have a chance to coach a team with a quarterback better than Tannehill!? The previous regime signed Tannehill to a 6-year, $95.2 million contract. Why was it Gase's fault he was stricken with a pedestrian starting quarterback all of these years!?
This is such an insanely stupid decision. I imagine the other NFL teams are laughing at Ross and the Dolphins right now. In fact, teams are already hurrying to schedule interviews with Gase. It sounds like the Browns are highly interested in hiring Gase, and doing so would be a terrific move. I can't wait to see Gase coach up Baker Mayfield. And he'll be able to do so because Ross is one of the worst sports owners anyone has ever seen. "
Gase will be able to coach Sam Darnold. This seems like a great fit. Gase has coached up bad quarterbacks to play well, and average quarterbacks to perform on a somewhat high level.
My post about Gase's quarterback development is a few posts up. Which of the following non-established quarterbacks that Gase coached has you confident that he'll be able to develop Darnold?
The established "franchise" quarterbacks were left out of the equation here, but they are Kitna, Cutler, and Manning (Tannehill is borderline). It's a stretch to give him a lot of credit, as WalterFootball does, as being a great football mind for merely getting Cutler to "only" throw 11 INTs during a 6-10 season in 2015, He had thrown 14 and 12 in 2012 and 2013, so this appears to be more statistical noise than an actual accomplishment. As more evidence, he brought back Cutler in Miami in 2017, and Cutler threw for 14 INTs in 14 games. Essentially Cutler's passer rating and interception percentage was the same under Gase as with anywhere else.
Ryan Tannehill was also pretty much exactly the same when healthy with Gase as he was before Gase arrived. The WalterFootbll article keeps referencing how bad Tannehill is, but he had almost the same winning percentage and statistics under Gase as previously (once again.) Gase failed to improve his play and knew exactly what he was trying to accomplish when coming to Miami; it will be the same challenge in NY of taking a young quarterback and improving his play. The WalterFootball articles seems to be rather misleading in its really bad assessment of Tannehill, who had passer rating in the high 80s/low 90s with and without Gase.
Can you find a single case of Gase actually taking a quarterback to an entirely new level? I'm not buying Peyton Manning, who was already a 4x MVP when he chose from about 10 suitors and went with the best supporting cast available leading up to his 55 TD season.
I do see a whole lot of failures here, whether it's a complete utter failure to even play QB in the NFL, or just a failure to improve the level of play from a given QB. Where's that previous success that WalterFootball references? I'd think "the next Bill Belichick" would have quite a resume of turnarounds.
I know. Hell we all know....... You've been saying it for years.
".........2017 2018 2019 is our year" blah blah blah
What an f'ing blowhard. Holy shyt.
"We've just hired the greatest coach of all time......"
What freaking joke. You dug into the basement and simply found a coach who would take any job handed to him because he ran out of suckage in Miami.
"But the cap space....we're developing the young guys..... we have a 3rd round pick..and now we have the greatest coach of all time...."
"Wow wow wow"
Can you just STFU until you've won a few games? WTF?
He's under delusional impression that the front office knows more than the layman, when in fact the opposite has been proven true time and time again. Go re-watch those horrid drafts where the fans are chanting for guys like Marino and Sapp, as the Jets draft O'Brien and Kyle Brady to a huge chorus of boos. The Gase deal is yet another chapter in their sorry history, but even worse are suckers like him that still believe in the ownership/leadership. It's pathetic. About 99% of Jets fans on their message boards (our little mascot here is a big exception) realize that they have once again made the worst possible choice in a situation where they have about 5 correct answers and 1 horribly wrong one.
I thought this was a 'coveted' job. Who the **** even is this guy?
Yeah, he did an amazing job with Tannehill.
My favorite JETE meme is "We just got the next [Patriots Coach or Player here]"
Maybe when Jete fans get together, "this website says the dolphins' owner says he's the next Belichick" is reason for off-season confetti. NE tends to have shorter off-seasons, and Pats fans have less faith in what a website said.
By the way, what happened to the JETE with the first Bill Belichick? How did they manage that one?
JETE fans make me sad.
Head Gase of the New Jersey Jete, Adam Case. I mean Gase of the NJ Head, Adam Jete. (Sigh) Gase of the kicks in the NJ crotch Jete. Gase of the crotch kicked Jete.
“...by any other name would smell as Jete.”
Why not use that for ALL your posts?
WTF is "walterfootball.com"? Is this some kind of joke? In the span of four sentences, "Walter" goes from "this seems like a great fit" to "this is a fantastic hire." Looks like Gase's wife hired a high school blogger named Walter. You must've searched high and low to find an amateur hobbyist site endorsing Gase.
This is walterfootball.com
Rams hire HC Sean McVay: C- Grade
The worst thing you can do to a bad situation is overreact by going the other way too much. That's exactly what the Rams are doing with this hire. They've employed Jeff Fisher for far too long, as Fisher was a tired coach with no new ideas. In fact, he was so bad that it appeared as though he was intentionally trying to sabotage the Rams. By 2016, he was so worn out that he didn't bother watching film, as evidenced by his press conference in which he said Danny Woodhead was a play-maker for the Patriots. The Rams fired Fisher, and so they went from an old coach to the youngest one ever. Sean McVay, former offensive coordinator for the Redskins, turns 31 in a couple of weeks.
I think this is a mistake. While McVay certainly has more upside than Fisher, it's unlikely that he'll get some of the Ram veterans to listen to him. Some are about as old as he is; some even older. The Rams are comprised of a bunch of lazy players who need to be motivated, and I'm not sure they'll be willing to listen to someone in their age group.
The one positive about McVay is his brilliant offensive mind. It'll be nice to have someone who, unlike Fisher, is actually innovative, but the problem is that it probably won't matter. Jared Goof is a lost cause. Everyone, including some in the Rams' organization, had Carson Wentz ranked ahead of Goof. I'm sure McVay will get the most out of him, and Goof won't be a complete abomination, but sometimes, a quarterback is an unsalvageable sunk cost, and that's what the Rams have. Then again, the Rams are an unsalvageable sunk cost themselves, so all of this is probably irrelevant.
Jets extend HC Todd Bowles, GM Mike Maccagnan: A Grade
While some franchises seem to change coaches and general managers every two years, the ones that maintain the most success are the ones that have a stable organization. Thus, I'm very much in favor of what the Jets have done today, extending both head coach Todd Bowles and general manager Mike Maccagnan with 2-year deals.
Bowles has done a tremendous job this year. The Jets entered the year with major problems, but he got five wins out of a team that was expected to go 2-14 or worse. The Jets played extremely hard each week, and that's a testament to Bowles' motivational skills.
Meanwhile, Maccagnan inherited a horrible cap situation, and he's done a great job of maneuvering out of it, dumping overpriced veterans like Brandon Marshall and Darrelle Revis. Maccagnan has made some mistakes, like spending a second-round pick on Christian Hackenberg, but he's had more hits than misses in the draft.
This idiot doesn't even realize that Maccagnan is the one who signed Revis and Marshall to begin with...lol
Here's the problem with YOUR New Jersey Football (sic) JETE, and, I should mention, their fans...
They think that if they hope hard enough and talk hard enough, they'll matter. You don't so much hate the JETE as pity them. They're just always there, embarrassing themselves. It's like watching candidate #17 at the kiddie table republican debates, sincerely convinced he's going to catch fire and get... something. Maybe a good enough showing to run in 4 years? Something like that.
But the Jete are still afterthoughts, and that's bending over backwards to be fair to them. Of course, Goodell came from that swamp, so the only idea he has of competitive balance is to handicap the best and drag them down to the JETE swamp level. He tried... it did not work.
Hope you're enjoying that lonnnnng New Jersey off season. Horrible year for us too, just 11 wins.
Separate names with a comma.