Jacoby Brissett - any chance he doesn't make it

[Triumph]

He's going to be the next John elway, except not a piece of ****.

Plus, dude came into the league with a mustache.....do you cut a guy like that? Hell no.

Josh Allen is the next Elway.

You saw it here first.

 

[Triumph]

Ryan Mallet might be the Ravens starter opening day.

The tackling dummy would be a better choice than Mallet.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I get both sides. One one hand, Brissett has looked better than a decent amount of 2nd-3rd string QBs (He has yet to throw an INT on 100+ pass attempts in the preseason & regular season). His decision making is pretty good. His pocket presence isn't bad. His accuracy isn't NFL starting caliber right now IMO. Can that improve?

QB is such a top heavy position in the draft. The bust rate for 3rd-4th round QBs is nearly 90%. 5th-7th round QBs is 95+%.

Every 3rd round QB from 1997-2016:



Odds are that Brissett doesn't pan out. If the team moves on early knowing he doesn't have NFL accuracy I wouldn't be that skeptical. I'd probably keep him for another year though.

 

[Tony2046]

Man, imgaine if we had picked Prescott and he had been decent in his rookie year and two starts (that Brissett got). We'd have traded Jimmy G by now and still had Prescott for 4 more years, and there would be no debate or drama.

Ah the "what ifs".

That's until we see Prescott have a down year. Then we would be begging for Brissett.

 

[Biffins]

Nope, I'm not right about everything. I am right about this, though. Your initial post was completely unpersuasive. It is a widely accepted opinion thst Brissett is a lock to make the team...not one single inside source or journalist covering the team has even suggested he's a bubble player. He's 24 years old and a year into his rookie contract. He played 2.5 games last season, as a rookie with no experience, and moved the ball adequately overall (7.3 YPA, 0 INTs, plus rushing.)

The Patriots may be moving on from Garoppolo or Brady next season, and the idea that they only keep quarterbacks who they think are the long-term answer as a starter contradicts their history.

You think Brissett's chances of making the team have gone down by 30% in merely a few weeks based on the following:

-Belichick made some comments about young players and mechanics (he says a lot of things thst he considers to be important)
-His style doesn't fit the system (total speculation, and the Patriots drafted him knowing his stengths)
-There are other players who might be more worthy of a roster spot (failing to mention that the Patriots place a much higher value on the QB position)
-Not sure if Brissett is as bad as Kevin O'Connell (lol)

So you'll have to excuse me for not taking this very seriously. Brissett will make the team. If you wanted to bet on this using a 70% number as baseline odds, you would be completely off.

Maybe you misunderstand me. I am not trying to persuade you or anyone else that Jacoby shouldn't make the team. Infact I said I feel he'll probably make it (as it says on the 70% in the poll I picked). I just wanted to discuss Jacoby, his struggles, his value to the team, and what our long-term options are both for Jacoby as well as for 2018 backup QB play in general.

 

[Biffins]

Here's what I think about Brissett.

His INT% at NC State was 1.4% (it's 0.0% so far in real games played for the Pats).

In 1,122 touches during his 4-yr college career, he apparently had zero fumbles (although he's had 3 with the Pats).

He can run faster and with more wiggle than either Brady or JG (though that's not saying a lot).

His throwing mechanics seem to have improved this year and the length of his wind-up seems significantly reduced. His reads are still too frequently slow and he still doesn't appear to have developed much touch.

If both Brady and JG are out simultaneously for an extended period, Brissett is highly unlikely to be able to carry the Pats very far in the post-season, much less to a sixth ring. So, his value to the 2017 campaign seems somewhat limited.

Keeping three QBs on the 53-man roster all season CAN put a strain on keeping enough guys at other positions. I'm thinking about the DL in this instance. What it doesn't usually do is keep a truly valuable prospect at another, well-filled position off the roster. I'm thinking here about Carr.

I think it's possible that the Pats might get as much as a 5th in trade for Brissett this season, but more likely a 6th. Even so, that would probably only happen IF all of the following conditions have been met:
... the Pats are 8-0 at the trade deadline
... both Brady and JG are extremely healthy
... some other team's QB room was wiped out by a meteor strike or the Browns are down to Osweiler (same difference, really).
... the Pats desperately need the roster spot to shore up another position
... the Pats have found a way to keep both Brady and JG for 2018.

I agree with those who say that a year-3 Brissett as a backup for Brady in 2018 is likely superior to any alternative - IF Garoppolo goes away (in a tag-and-trade, most likely). So, if Brissett goes away, it seems to me that the odds are that JG will be sticking around for at least 2018. If Brissett stays on the 53-man all season, I'd say the odds are that JG will be gone in 2018.

The alternative way to free up the QB3 roster spot for 2017 is sending Brissett to IR-return (or, possibly, season-ending IR). He won't be able to practice with the team, but he could still spend the season studying with Brady's QB guru - which may very well be better for Brissett's development anyway.

So, I'm going with 50/50.

That's very helpful. Thanks.

I agree IR seems a decent option, in which case he won't be on the roster.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Brissett was a major project when he was drafted, the Pats knew that. His mechanics were an issue then, and I don't think anyone reasonably expected he would be ready to go by now. So I'm pretty sure he'll be carried on the roster this year. If he is cut loose, it'll be because his progress is nowhere near what the team demands, and I don't think he was that bad.

 

[Tony2046]

I get both sides. One one hand, Brissett has looked better than a decent amount of 2nd-3rd string QBs (He has yet to throw an INT on 100+ pass attempts in the preseason & regular season). His decision making is pretty good. His pocket presence isn't bad. His accuracy isn't NFL starting caliber right now IMO. Can that improve?

QB is such a top heavy position in the draft. The bust rate for 3rd-4th round QBs is nearly 90%. 5th-7th round QBs is 95+%.

Every 3rd round QB from 1997-2016:

View attachment 17750

Odds are that Brissett doesn't pan out. If the team moves on early knowing he doesn't have NFL accuracy I wouldn't be that skeptical. I'd probably keep him for another year though.

I watched all of JB's throws again. These are just my thoughts and are definitely open for criticism.

1. He overthrew his receivers 6 times. 2 of those were throws into the endzone at the end of the game. Hail Marys.

2. He seemed more accurate when he threw on the run.

3. 7 of his throws both in the pocket and while scrambling were on the money.

4. All but one throw (not including the hail marys) were to open receivers. So he seems to have made the correct reads.

5. One throw was complete to Hollister but I'm not sure if it was a smart throw as Hollister was double covered. Hollister came back and got it. It was also during the two minute drill at the end of the 4th so maybe he forced it. Not sure.

6. His deep pass to Lucien down the sideline was a nice ball. Lucien was held and couldn't get to it. PI was called.

7. He did make throw to his second read at least once.

8. He looked good in the pocket and has decent escape ability when getting pressured. He also throws nicely on the run.


So basically if he can bring down his throws a bit he should have a decent outing. He's definitely a threat to run and can throw accurately while scrambling. That's one of his better qualities.

He has always looked composed which is something I like about him as well.

Is he a starting QB? No not yet but he can handle the pressure if asked to do so.

We'll see how he does during the next couple of weeks. I suspect we'll see an improved performance.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I watched all of JB's throws again. These are just my thoughts and are definitely open for criticism.

1. He overthrew his receivers 6 times. 2 of those were throws into the endzone at the end of the game. Hail Marys.

2. He seemed more accurate when he threw on the run.

3. 7 of his throws both in the pocket and while scrambling were on the money.

4. All but one throw (not including the hail marys) were to open receivers. So he seems to have made the correct reads.

5. One throw was complete to Hollister but I'm not sure if it was a smart throw as Hollister was double covered. Hollister came back and got it. It was also during the two minute drill at the end of the 4th so maybe he forced it. Not sure.

6. His deep pass to Lucien down the sideline was a nice ball. Lucien was held and couldn't get to it. PI was called.

7. He did make throw to his second read at least once.

8. He looked good in the pocket and has decent escape ability when getting pressured. He also throws nicely on the run.


So basically if he can bring down his throws a bit he should have a decent outing. He's definitely a threat to run and can throw accurately while scrambling. That's one of his better qualities.

He has always looked composed which is something I like about him as well.

Is he a starting QB? No not yet but he can handle the pressure if asked to do so.

We'll see how he does during the next couple of weeks. I suspect we'll see an improved performance.

Yeah, it's kinda weird, I like everything about him except his actual throwing mechanics. They do seem slightly improved from last year, but he has a ways to go. I like his mobility, I think he makes his reads well, he's clearly the kind of leader that rallies the team around him, but he just needs to have a quicker, more consistent release. If he fails to develop that, he'll never be the guy here. If he succeeds, his ceiling is very high. Either way, I think it's way too early to entertain the thought of cutting him loose. He very well might be the fourth best QB in this division right now, let alone in a year or two.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I watched all of JB's throws again. These are just my thoughts and are definitely open for criticism.

1. He overthrew his receivers 6 times. 2 of those were throws into the endzone at the end of the game. Hail Marys.

2. He seemed more accurate when he threw on the run.

3. 7 of his throws both in the pocket and while scrambling were on the money.

4. All but one throw (not including the hail marys) were to open receivers. So he seems to have made the correct reads.

5. One throw was complete to Hollister but I'm not sure if it was a smart throw as Hollister was double covered. Hollister came back and got it. It was also during the two minute drill at the end of the 4th so maybe he forced it. Not sure.

6. His deep pass to Lucien down the sideline was a nice ball. Lucien was held and couldn't get to it. PI was called.

7. He did make throw to his second read at least once.

8. He looked good in the pocket and has decent escape ability when getting pressured. He also throws nicely on the run.


So basically if he can bring down his throws a bit he should have a decent outing. He's definitely a threat to run and can throw accurately while scrambling. That's one of his better qualities.

He has always looked composed which is something I like about him as well.

Is he a starting QB? No not yet but he can handle the pressure if asked to do so.

We'll see how he does during the next couple of weeks. I suspect we'll see an improved performance.

Nice analysis.

I think your thoughts as well as others lead to the conclusion that Brissett's ceiling may be an average starting QB on an offense like the Steelers, Panthers, or Cardinals. He would excel as Cam's backup with those huge WRs & downfield passing.

Although he's not a great fit in our offense I do agree if he was forced into action McDaniels could draw enough up with Gronk/Cooks/Hogan downfield to make a working offense.

He's been about what as is expected from a RD 2-3 QB. Enough skills/traits of a franchise QB but some glaring flaws. He's definitely not a trainwreck like Kevin O'Connell. I personally don't see a QB that will ever develop the skills necessary for the precision passing offense to slot WRs/option routes we run. He's definitely worth trying to develop and see what happens though.

 

[Biffins]

Nice analysis.

I think your thoughts as well as others lead to the conclusion that Brissett's ceiling may be an average starting QB on an offense like the Steelers, Panthers, or Cardinals. He would excel as Cam's backup with those huge WRs & downfield passing.

Although he's not a great fit in our offense I do agree if he was forced into action McDaniels could draw enough up with Gronk/Cooks/Hogan downfield to make a working offense.

He's been about what as is expected from a RD 2-3 QB. Enough skills/traits of a franchise QB but some glaring flaws. He's definitely not a trainwreck like Kevin O'Connell. I personally don't see a QB that will ever develop the skills necessary for the precision passing offense to slot WRs/option routes we run. He's definitely worth trying to develop and see what happens though.

You say that and yet that's exactly the skills Jimmy G developed. Maybe that's why BB values him so much.

 

[borg]

Give me a mobile #3 QB every day.
#3's don't get many practice reps to begin with, let alone reps with the starting playmakers so it is silly to expect any continuity on offense if the #3 is brought into the game.
The mobile QB can bide for time allowing his playmakers to shake lose...or he can take it to the house with his legs....neither mode needs much practice...just elusiveness.
Brisket stays for now

 

[rochrist]

Dude is a few weeks into his 2nd NFL season and we've got a thread about dumping him. He certainly looked like he had regressed last week but the impatience of the average NFL fan these days is frustrating. Troy Brown would have been working at Home Depot if it was up to you folks.

It's kind of different with QB than with WR, at least IMO. If a QB comes into the league with suspect mechanics, he's a longshot to make it. Again IMO. They have all they can handle learning the intricacies of the position. If they have to break down the mechanics that carried them all through school and rebuild them from scratch, it's a tall order.

 

[jmt57]

Kinda near topic: why does JB (and to some extent JG) throw the football like a shot put? Brady throws it with his arm fully extended in a big windmill arc above his head. I would think the guys training with the GOAT would emulate his mechanics/throwing style.

Not the first QB to look as if they are throwing a shot put.

A few (to varying degrees of success) that looked that way, off the top of my head:
Philip Rivers
Chad Pennington
Danny Wuerfel

 

[luuked]

Man, imgaine if we had picked Prescott and he had been decent in his rookie year and two starts (that Brissett got). We'd have traded Jimmy G by now and still had Prescott for 4 more years, and there would be no debate or drama.

Ah the "what ifs".

That's until we see Prescott have a down year. Then we would be begging for Brissett.

Why people assume that Prescott would have been the same player here as in Dallas boggles my mind. Completely different offense, more rookie friendly scheme and a OL + RB that made him look good. Look at how his stats regress when Elliott wasn't in the game.

Also the pining for alternative draft picks is so stupid. Every team can sing the same song about missed prospects.

In terms of the thread it is pretty obvious that having JB around the team is important for BB which is why they used the IR return slot on him last year. Meaning they will not IR QB3 him just to create space for a Carr, Lucien & co who will never play meaningful snaps in the first place.

 

[Tony2046]

Why people assume that Prescott would have been the same player here as in Dallas boggles my mind. Completely different offense, more rookie friendly scheme and a OL + RB that made him look good. Look at how his stats regress when Elliott wasn't in the game.

Also the pining for alternative draft picks is so stupid. Every team can sing the same song about missed prospects.

In terms of the thread it is pretty obvious that having JB around the team is important for BB which is why they used the IR return slot on him last year. Meaning they will not IR QB3 him just to create space for a Carr, Lucien & co who will never play meaningful snaps in the first place.

I'm going to go out on a limb. It's a novice limb.

I've watched film on both Prescott and Brissett and I think Brissett is better.

I also think that Prescott's honeymoon is over. I think he is going to have a down year.

I'm betting the Cowboys won't make the playoffs.

Anyways that's my thinking.

 

[luuked]

I've watched film on both Prescott and Brissett and I think Brissett is better.

Out of curiosity what makes you think that ? Am sincerely interested what you have seen in the film that made you go against the majority opinion.

 

[patsinthesnow]

It's kind of different with QB than with WR, at least IMO. If a QB comes into the league with suspect mechanics, he's a longshot to make it. Again IMO. They have all they can handle learning the intricacies of the position. If they have to break down the mechanics that carried them all through school and rebuild them from scratch, it's a tall order.

Yup. You can kind of see it right away. The last 3 preseason star rookie QBs (to do it in the 1st/2nd quarters of games):

Wilson
Garoppolo
Prescott

Jimmy's first game of preseason action was better than anything Mallett churned out in 3 years based on the eye test.

I definitely want to see this year's batch of QBs the next two weeks. Trubisky in particular looked legit.

 

[Tony2046]

Out of curiosity what makes you think that ? Am sincerely interested what you have seen in the film that made you go against the majority opinion.

Sure. As you know it's an amateur's opinion. I started looking into it a while ago (I think I posted something similar last season about this) and I do think it's accurate to say that Brissett is either the equivalent or better than Prescott. Although his first preseason performance damages my theory a bit. hahaha

Btw: I'm not suggesting a "cliff" rather a drop off from last season. IOW, he'll fall to the middle of the pack sort of thing.

I don't think Prescott reads defenses at all. And because of that the Cowboy's have instilled a bunch of muscle or speed plays into their offense.

Misdirection, sweeps, bootlegs and power runs etc...

I also think they incorporate false first reads into their plays. I would say more than 50% of Prescott's throws included him looking the opposite direction and after a second or so he'll look to his target. The intent, of course, is to move the safety or zone coverage one way to open up something on the other side.

I think defenses will respond to that and may already have with a zone type spy.

The problem is, or at least was last season, the Cowboys had a top five OL. Prescott had a a lot of time in the pocket. (I think he ranked top 5 or so) He needs that time for plays to develop because, again, I don't think he can read defenses post snap. However, like Rodgers, he can throw on the run and make plays.

Anyways I think if defenses can force him into his second read he'll have problems. Of the plays I saw that happen he threw off target, took a sack or ran more times than not.


Brissett has a similar skillset but has shown signs of reading defenses and finding his mismatch post snap.

On a side note: the cowboys have lost two of their starting OL guys from last season. We'll see how that plays into things.


Anyways just my thoughts.

 

[Simpelton]

There is one other way that Jacoby Brissett might not make the cut, and that's if Belichick decides for some reason to bring in Colin Kaepernick.

if any franchise might take a chance on Kaepernick it's the Patriots. Belichick has been no stranger to signing controversial players if the price is right and the potential value is there. While Kaepernick was an idiot for the stand he took, I've never really heard any credible rumors about him being a bad teammate, and he's got skills. Bill is good at looking past the media nonsense over a guy and seeing his real value. That's how we got Moss, remember we kept hearing that Brandon Moss didn't have the best reputation before the Pats brought him in and we got years of almost completely problem-free production out of him.

I think that it's unlikely that the Patriots break ranks on the blackballing of Kaepernick, but if any franchise were to break ranks, it would be the Patriots. If that were the case, carrying 4 quarterbacks would probably not be a thing the franchise wanted to do, so if they did reach out to Kaepernick, it would probably be because BB has a good trade lined up for Garoppolo, or is prepared to get rid of Brissett.