Jacoby Brissett - any chance he doesn't make it

[Tony2046]

There is one other way that Jacoby Brissett might not make the cut, and that's if Belichick decides for some reason to bring in Colin Kaepernick.

if any franchise might take a chance on Kaepernick it's the Patriots. Belichick has been no stranger to signing controversial players if the price is right and the potential value is there. While Kaepernick was an idiot for the stand he took, I've never really heard any credible rumors about him being a bad teammate, and he's got skills. Bill is good at looking past the media nonsense over a guy and seeing his real value. That's how we got Moss, remember we kept hearing that Brandon Moss didn't have the best reputation before the Pats brought him in and we got years of almost completely problem-free production out of him.

I think that it's unlikely that the Patriots break ranks on the blackballing of Kaepernick, but if any franchise were to break ranks, it would be the Patriots. If that were the case, carrying 4 quarterbacks would probably not be a thing the franchise wanted to do, so if they did reach out to Kaepernick, it would probably be because BB has a good trade lined up for Garoppolo, or is prepared to get rid of Brissett.

Kaepernick is not a better QB than Brissett.

 

[Simpelton]

Kaepernick is not better than Brissett's potential. Brissett still has development to do to reach that potential.

Like I said though, I don't see this as very likely at all.

 

[Tony2046]

Kaepernick is not better than Brissett's potential. Brissett still has development to do to reach that potential.

Like I said though, I don't see this as very likely at all.

That's incorrect. Brissett is better than Kaepernick. Kaepernick would be clueless in this offensive scheme.

FWIW: I'm not an anti- Kaep guy.

 

[zydecochris]

I think they'll give him another year, but he hasn't improved at all. His pocket presence is still suspect and he's still putting way too much velocity on his short throws. His mechanics also need a TON of work. I honestly had no clue what the team saw him him when they drafted him and still don't. But I think he makes the roster again this season.

I think it is obvious what the team saw in him: absolutely sky high intangibles with great toughness. The Patriots drafted one other kid in the 6th round with sky-high intangibles and great toughness and they ended up with the GOAT.

Of course, what made Tom Brady great is more than sky-high intangibles and toughness. There seems to be a storyline that Brady isn't particularly athletic, simply because he isn't a particularly fast runner. What utter nonsense!

How many football players combine Brady's hand-eye coordination with his ability to see things a beat before everyone else on the field and process things so quickly with his computer-like brain?* And, that is apart from his skills as a baseball player, the Expos scout that drafted him thought he would have been a Hall of Fame catcher. In addition to his sky-high intangibles, Brady is a truly remarkable athlete.

I don't think that Brissett has anywhere close to the natural athleticism that Brady had and has. With his work ethic and intangibles can he improve enough to be a successful starting quarterback, with time? We can only hope.

* It reminds me of those that called someone like Larry Bird unathletic, despite his remarkable hand-eye coordination, simply because he couldn't run fast or jump high.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

"absolutely sky high intangibles with great toughness" Bisquick

Contrast this Patriots QB selection criteria with Kaepernick's demonstrated attributes

No way BB brings in a guy like Kaep at QB, a team leadership position

 

[PP2]

Brissett was a major project when he was drafted, the Pats knew that. His mechanics were an issue then, and I don't think anyone reasonably expected he would be ready to go by now. So I'm pretty sure he'll be carried on the roster this year. If he is cut loose, it'll be because his progress is nowhere near what the team demands, and I don't think he was that bad.

Thread should have ended with this post.

Nothing new. Patriots knew exactly what they were getting from him, raw mechanics with high ceiling (hence being a 3rd round pick). As has been said, his windup has been reduced, reads tightened, but there is still a long way to go.

The important thing is that the issues that he has, are correctable. They can be improved upon, and he has the motivation and discipline. Just needs time, at least until the game comes to him.

 

[rochrist]

I think it is obvious what the team saw in him: absolutely sky high intangibles with great toughness. The Patriots drafted one other kid in the 6th round with sky-high intangibles and great toughness and they ended up with the GOAT.

Of course, what made Tom Brady great is more than sky-high intangibles and toughness. There seems to be a storyline that Brady isn't particularly athletic, simply because he isn't a particularly fast runner. What utter nonsense!

How many football players combine Brady's hand-eye coordination with his ability to see things a beat before everyone else on the field and process things so quickly with his computer-like brain?* And, that is apart from his skills as a baseball player, the Expos scout that drafted him thought he would have been a Hall of Fame catcher. In addition to his sky-high intangibles, Brady is a truly remarkable athlete.

I don't think that Brissett has anywhere close to the natural athleticism that Brady had and has. With his work ethic and intangibles can he improve enough to be a successful starting quarterback, with time? We can only hope.

* It reminds me of those that called someone like Larry Bird unathletic, despite his remarkable hand-eye coordination, simply because he couldn't run fast or jump high.

Brady didn't come into the league with broken mechanics. He's worked on them, and refined them, but he had them from day one.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I get both sides. One one hand, Brissett has looked better than a decent amount of 2nd-3rd string QBs (He has yet to throw an INT on 100+ pass attempts in the preseason & regular season). His decision making is pretty good. His pocket presence isn't bad. His accuracy isn't NFL starting caliber right now IMO. Can that improve?

QB is such a top heavy position in the draft. The bust rate for 3rd-4th round QBs is nearly 90%. 5th-7th round QBs is 95+%.

Every 3rd round QB from 1997-2016:

View attachment 17750

Odds are that Brissett doesn't pan out. If the team moves on early knowing he doesn't have NFL accuracy I wouldn't be that skeptical. I'd probably keep him for another year though.

I think it's a bit premature to be putting Glennon in the red, considering that he just signed a $45 million contract and will most likely be starting week 1. I suspect he'll likely end up there, but it's too early to reasonably say.

I also think this ratio requires context, since if we were going by a standard of "if the odds are against a guy of X draft position panning out, it's better to cut loose early', then you should cut loose everyone who isn't immediately ready, since even among first rounders the majority bust. Here's a list of QBs drafted in the first round over the same timespan:

Hits (generous definition here, going with QBs who were adequate-or-better starters for a handful of years or more): 18
Peyton Manning
Donovan McNabb
Chad Pennington
Michael Vick
Carson Palmer
Eli Manning
Phil Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
Alex Smith
Aaron Rodgers
Jay Cutler
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Matt Stafford
Sam Bradford
Cam Newton
Andrew Luck
Ryan Tannehill

Busts: 29
Jim Druckenmiller
Ryan Leaf
Tim Couch
Akili Smith
Cade McNown
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey
Byron Leftwich
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman
JP Losman
Jason Campbell
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jamarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Tim Tebow
Jack Locker
Blaine Gabbert
Christian Ponder
Robert Griffin III
Brandon Weeden
EJ Manuel
Blake Bortles
Johnny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater

Too Early to Tell: 5
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Jared Goff
Carson Wentz
Paxton Lynch

When you draft a QB in the first round, precedent says it's more likely that you're getting the next JP Losman than the next Alex Smith, and considering that even Smith's team just traded up in the first to draft his replacement because they don't think he's good enough to win a title, that's pretty damning.

I think it's important to remember that Garoppolo looked pretty bad at this point in his career too, the first indication we got that he might be a real QB was in the 2014 KC massacre when he played in garbage time. Prior to that, we saw inconsistent flashes of talent mixed with a clear lack of comfort and experience on the field. Development takes time, and I don't think the Pats ever expected Brissett would be ready this early in his career given how much of a project he was when they drafted him. His mechanics are flawed, but listening to Charlie Weis talks about him makes it clear that he was drafted for other reasons, and everything we've seen so far suggests that he's delivered in those areas.

 

[lurker1965]

Yes and the question is can we get a rookie or vet pick-up for a backup QB role in 2018 that's as good as a year 3 Brissett. If the answer is yes, you're wasting a roster slot this year.

Do you really want oon th Kaepernick train?

 

[maineman209]

I think it's a bit premature to be putting Glennon in the red, considering that he just signed a $45 million contract and will most likely be starting week 1. I suspect he'll likely end up there, but it's too early to reasonably say.

I also think this ratio requires context, since if we were going by a standard of "if the odds are against a guy of X draft position panning out, it's better to cut loose early', then you should cut loose everyone who isn't immediately ready, since even among first rounders the majority bust. Here's a list of QBs drafted in the first round over the same timespan:

Hits (generous definition here, going with QBs who were adequate-or-better starters for a handful of years or more): 18
Peyton Manning
Donovan McNabb
Chad Pennington
Michael Vick
Carson Palmer
Eli Manning
Phil Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
Alex Smith
Aaron Rodgers
Jay Cutler
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Matt Stafford
Sam Bradford
Cam Newton
Andrew Luck
Ryan Tannehill

Busts: 29
Jim Druckenmiller
Ryan Leaf
Tim Couch
Akili Smith
Cade McNown
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey
Byron Leftwich
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman
JP Losman
Jason Campbell
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jamarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Tim Tebow
Jack Locker
Blaine Gabbert
Christian Ponder
Robert Griffin III
Brandon Weeden
EJ Manuel
Blake Bortles
Johnny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater

Too Early to Tell: 5
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Jared Goff
Carson Wentz
Paxton Lynch

When you draft a QB in the first round, precedent says it's more likely that you're getting the next JP Losman than the next Alex Smith, and considering that even Smith's team just traded up in the first to draft his replacement because they don't think he's good enough to win a title, that's pretty damning.

I think it's important to remember that Garoppolo looked pretty bad at this point in his career too, the first indication we got that he might be a real QB was in the 2014 KC massacre when he played in garbage time. Prior to that, we saw inconsistent flashes of talent mixed with a clear lack of comfort and experience on the field. Development takes time, and I don't think the Pats ever expected Brissett would be ready this early in his career given how much of a project he was when they drafted him. His mechanics are flawed, but listening to Charlie Weis talks about him makes it clear that he was drafted for other reasons, and everything we've seen so far suggests that he's delivered in those areas.

I agree.

If you take this breakdown a couple steps further and

1) categorize QBs by, say, whether or not they became a "satisfactory" (or better) long term starter, a competent short-term backup, or a complete bust
2) look at them in terms of draft-slot rather than just rounds ...

It appears to me that QBs taken in the top three picks have historically produced the highest "hit rate", with a dropoff to about 50% between there and the mid-1st. From the mid-1st through the 2nd-round, the hit rate appears to drop below 30%, and then falls off a cliff after that.

As a side note, we attended a joint training camp practice with the Eagles at the start of JG's rookie season. Even then, his confidence, reads, throwing mechanics, pocket awareness, accuracy, touch and leadership were already high level and it seemed obvious that he was something special - way beyond what one might expect based on his draft slot.

 

[BlacknGold77]

I'd say odds are in favor of him going to the practice squad. I cant see them carrying 3 QBs this year. They only did it last year because of Brady's suspension.

Plus he isnt looking all that good so far this TC. Accuracy is very shaky

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

If Bisquick is cut for the PS, he's a Jet.
That would be a dumb decision because based on the only data we have, we have no idea if JAG is durable enough for NFL play

 

[BlacknGold77]

If Bisquick is cut for the PS, he's a Jet.
That would be a dumb decision because based on the only data we have, we have no idea if JAG is durable enough for NFL play

sure we do. he took 1 bad hit scrambling and jammed his shoulder. If he were the full starter he would've only missed 2 weeks.

btw, you can say the same thing about Brissett. He broke his hand in the 1st half he ever played and needed surgery.

and the Jets arent stealing him if he goes to the practice squad. they're riding with Hackenberg no matter what this year.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I think it's a bit premature to be putting Glennon in the red, considering that he just signed a $45 million contract and will most likely be starting week 1. I suspect he'll likely end up there, but it's too early to reasonably say.

I also think this ratio requires context, since if we were going by a standard of "if the odds are against a guy of X draft position panning out, it's better to cut loose early', then you should cut loose everyone who isn't immediately ready, since even among first rounders the majority bust. Here's a list of QBs drafted in the first round over the same timespan:

Hits (generous definition here, going with QBs who were adequate-or-better starters for a handful of years or more): 18
Peyton Manning
Donovan McNabb
Chad Pennington
Michael Vick
Carson Palmer
Eli Manning
Phil Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
Alex Smith
Aaron Rodgers
Jay Cutler
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Matt Stafford
Sam Bradford
Cam Newton
Andrew Luck
Ryan Tannehill

Busts: 29
Jim Druckenmiller
Ryan Leaf
Tim Couch
Akili Smith
Cade McNown
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey
Byron Leftwich
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman
JP Losman
Jason Campbell
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jamarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Tim Tebow
Jack Locker
Blaine Gabbert
Christian Ponder
Robert Griffin III
Brandon Weeden
EJ Manuel
Blake Bortles
Johnny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater

Too Early to Tell: 5
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Jared Goff
Carson Wentz
Paxton Lynch

When you draft a QB in the first round, precedent says it's more likely that you're getting the next JP Losman than the next Alex Smith, and considering that even Smith's team just traded up in the first to draft his replacement because they don't think he's good enough to win a title, that's pretty damning.

I think it's important to remember that Garoppolo looked pretty bad at this point in his career too, the first indication we got that he might be a real QB was in the 2014 KC massacre when he played in garbage time. Prior to that, we saw inconsistent flashes of talent mixed with a clear lack of comfort and experience on the field. Development takes time, and I don't think the Pats ever expected Brissett would be ready this early in his career given how much of a project he was when they drafted him. His mechanics are flawed, but listening to Charlie Weis talks about him makes it clear that he was drafted for other reasons, and everything we've seen so far suggests that he's delivered in those areas.

Solid points. Few disagreements:

Glennon blows. His career will likely end with 20 or so mediocre starts. QB isn't like other positions where getting a Jonathan Jones or Valentine role player helps the team. You're either a starting caliber QB or a liability on the field.

I had way too much free time between graduation/job. Your #s check out on rd 1bQBs. I was generous on some younger QBs too:



Garoppolo was a rare circumstance. He had the best release of any prospect probably of the decade. He had elite accuracy. He was 6'2, played in a spread system & had less people in the stands than some HS teams. A lot of us were big fans of him (had him 10th overall, us drafting him was so awesome. Only binky that high to ever get picked). Garoppolo & Brissett don't compare as prospects.

I think you're misremembering Jimmy G's rookie season. He was a stud in preseason game 1 & looked like a natural vs. the Panthers 1s in game 3.

Besides that, in agreement that 1st rd QBs (especially removing #1 overall picks) don't have great results either. I just don't think Brissett's inaccuracy problems will be fixed.

 

[kennyb]

Brissett nice guy, no chance as a qb. No they won't cut him.

 

[zydecochris]

Brady didn't come into the league with broken mechanics. He's worked on them, and refined them, but he had them from day one.

The poster "Simpleton" (who seems anything but) had an absolutely fascinating (to me) post some months ago on this subject. He was commenting on why Brady had been able to improve so much over the years from college, specifically his arm strength. Paraphrasing, he argued that most NFL QB prospects have played a ton of snaps at QB from a young age, and apart from some "tweaking" their habits and mechanics are mostly "locked into place" for good or for ill by the time they get to the NFL. Fixing "broken mechanics" is very difficult to do, and in particular arm strength (which depends on mechanics) is difficult to improve.

In contrast, he argued that Brady was a two sport athlete who had started out focused on baseball and didn't play much in college. Simpleton argued that Brady had extremely raw and underdeveloped mechanics coming out of college, he was like an unmolded lump of clay. His mechanics weren't broken, they were simply underdeveloped. With his work effort and intangibles, he was able to develop excellent mechanics (and improve arm strength) at the NFL level to become the GOAT. I was surprised that this post didn't attract more attention because I thought it was a really interesting "take" on why Brady was able to improve so much more over time than other QB's.

Getting back to Brissett, he has great intangibles and work effort, it remains to be seen if he can fix his "broken" mechanics, there aren't many examples of QB's that are able to fix broken mechanics at the pro level.

 

[Ring 6]

Kaepernick is not better than Brissett's potential. Brissett still has development to do to reach that potential.

Like I said though, I don't see this as very likely at all.

Karpernixk is an awful QB. He is an attention whore who is a bad teammate.
Kaepernicks issue isn't kneeling for the anthem, it's that kneeling for the anthem was his way of calling attention to himself when he lost his job. The fact that he had said publicly he will not do it any more shows it was always about him, to the detriment of his team, and never really about the cause. In fact he used the cause to draw attention to himself.
He will never play for BB.

 

[Ring 6]

The poster "Simpleton" (who seems anything but) had an absolutely fascinating (to me) post some months ago on this subject. He was commenting on why Brady had been able to improve so much over the years from college, specifically his arm strength. Paraphrasing, he argued that most NFL QB prospects have played a ton of snaps at QB from a young age, and apart from some "tweaking" their habits and mechanics are mostly "locked into place" for good or for ill by the time they get to the NFL. Fixing "broken mechanics" is very difficult to do, and in particular arm strength (which depends on mechanics) is difficult to improve.

In contrast, he argued that Brady was a two sport athlete who had started out focused on baseball and didn't play much in college. Simpleton argued that Brady had extremely raw and underdeveloped mechanics coming out of college, he was like an unmolded lump of clay. His mechanics weren't broken, they were simply underdeveloped. With his work effort and intangibles, he was able to develop excellent mechanics (and improve arm strength) at the NFL level to become the GOAT. I was surprised that this post didn't attract more attention because I thought it was a really interesting "take" on why Brady was able to improve so much more over time than other QB's.

Getting back to Brissett, he has great intangibles and work effort, it remains to be seen if he can fix his "broken" mechanics, there aren't many examples of QB's that are able to fix broken mechanics at the pro level.

This makes no sense. Brady played a lot of football at Michigan and ever since he was a kid.
QBs throw multitudes more passes outside of game day than the do on game day.
Brady's mechanics were as well developed or ingrained as any.

 

[Ring 6]

If Bisquick is cut for the PS, he's a Jet.
That would be a dumb decision because based on the only data we have, we have no idea if JAG is durable enough for NFL play

Just don't see why the jets would be interested
You want your 3 to know your system in the event of emergency. Petty has been in there system. There is no real reason to believe brisset is any better.

 

[Biffins]

wow Brissett stank it up today. Stood like a statue patting the ball for hours, taking a sack, horrible throws to covered receivers, tons of incompletes, no significant play.