It's time for Amendola to step up

[manxman2601]

All i can say is wow!

Thank god we have mini-tron, i think he's proven that he's better than Amendola

I don't think he's proven anything of the sort. There's only one season of comparison, a season in which Amendola was injured and Edelman already had an inside track in terms of familiarity with Brady.

 

[Bhelmet]

I still don't think Amendola is 100%. I also think he will bring his best for the next game. What he has after that remains to be seen.

 

[supafly]

I understand your gripe B6 by the looks of it it seems like we overpaid for DA. Don't know if some other Team wanted his services but with the Welker Issue and all they had to get somebody. So to those who say the Patriots don't overpay the Armendola signing says hello! That said I would really love for him to live up to that $5.7 Mill this Offseason...its what he does from here on out.

Amendola had a 2 million dollar base salary this season and counted as a 3.5 million dollar cap hit. If you're talking about him living up to this specific 2013 season, then a lot of this may be tremendously overblown.

Again....if this is an issue next year, then the normal decisions will be explored and made, just the same as always. We are a long way off from that right now, however. Lots of things may change between now and the end of next season, along with the personnel regarding Julian Edelman, and whether or not they wish to use Amendola in the slot more. We had the same exact conversation about Edelman last year, in terms of how he may not be worth retaining in terms of a pure wide receiver.

 

[mgteich]

IMHO, average over the life of the contract is largely irrelevant. In effect, we signed Amendola for 2 years for $11M plus incentives ($10M guaranteed).

The team also has an option on Amendola's services after before the 2015, 2016 and 2017 seasons at $4M, $5M and $6M, all plus incentives. I find it difficult to factor these options into the contract price.

IMHO, it is clear that Amendola is worth $1M plus incentive for 2014 (the new money). The time for choices for the patriots is after the 2014, 2015 and 2016 seasons.
=====

This situation is somewhat similar to the situations of Gregory and Connolly. They both were clearly going to be kept for the 2013 season. The choice for the patriots (for each of them) is after this season.

No those are there average salaries over the life of their contracts.


PLAYERPOSAGECONTRACT TERMSAVG. SALARYGUARANTEEDFREE AGENT
Tom BradyQB365 yr$70,600,000$14,120,000$33,000,000 2018
Jerod MayoOLB277 yr$49,850,000$7,121,429$25,000,000 2018
Vince WilforkDT325 yr$40,000,000$8,000,000$25,000,000 2015
Logan MankinsG316 yr$51,000,000$8,500,000$21,500,000 2017
Rob GronkowskiTE248 yr$55,230,000$6,903,750$13,170,000 2020
Danny AmendolaWR285 yr$28,500,000$5,700,000$10,000,000 2018

New England Patriots Player Contracts, Salaries, & Transactions

Highlighting other teams overpaying for players doesn't make the Amendola contract better.

 

[supafly]

I don't think he's proven anything of the sort. There's only one season of comparison, a season in which Amendola was injured and Edelman already had an inside track in terms of familiarity with Brady.

Although this is obviously only opinion, I agree with you completely, and it seems that some are not factoring this into their assessment with either player for the 2013 season.

I think this statement should be a sticky that we can all refer to for the rest of the offseason, to be completely honest with you.

 

[manxman2601]

Although this is obviously only opinion, I agree with you completely, and it seems that some are not factoring this into their assessment with either player for the 2013 season.

I think this statement should be a sticky that we can all refer to for the rest of the offseason, to be completely honest with you.

Thanks. Kind words.

 

[Bhelmet]

I think Amendola cost us less than Lloyd and Amendola actually won us a game - Lloyd was lucky to get a catch or two.

 

[supafly]

I think Amendola cost us less than Lloyd and Amendola actually won us a game - Lloyd was lucky to get a catch or two.

That's certainly one way to look at it, although many of us had higher expectations due to assuming that he'd be taking over a good majority of Welker's numbers, instead of Edelman.

I just think that we'll need to give Amendola another full season to improve upon in some aspects, along with the differences between scheme/personnel of 2013/2014, even if that sounds like I'm attempting to make excuses for him. For the record, I'm not, I just think that there needs to be a bigger picture kept in mind, instead of making a quicker rush to judgement. Of course, it's understandable that there will be some differences of opinion on that matter.

If he has another year where he's injured more than a couple/few games, and/or doesn't look like he's improving, I will be the first one to want the situation addressed in the offseason from '14 to '15. That could be done in terms of addressing a reduction in future salary, or even exploring moving on without him--if it's deemed necessary.

 

[Brady6]

I don't think he's proven anything of the sort. There's only one season of comparison, a season in which Amendola was injured and Edelman already had an inside track in terms of familiarity with Brady.

Although this is obviously only opinion, I agree with you completely, and it seems that some are not factoring this into their assessment with either player for the 2013 season.



I think this statement should be a sticky that we can all refer to for the rest of the offseason, to be completely honest with you.

I mean no disrespect here Sup and Manx but I think your fondness of Amendola is clouding your opinion. Edelman received consistent first team reps for the first time in his career and delivered with 100+ reception and 1000+ receiving yard season. Amendola has received first team reps for the most of his career and hasn't achieved either of those things.

I get that you guys like Amendola and I even understand it but to sit here and suggest he is better than Edelman is completely built on hope, a hope that he puts it all together and has a season like Edelman already had. Hope is not an outcome it is a possibility, until Amendola does it he is not better than Welker or Edelman.

I sort of understand the thought process if Danny Amendola could do what he did in week one every week he would be amazing, that is true with so many players in the NFL though - if they could do what they did in a certain game or few games during the season they'd be incredible. Take Blount if he could run the football and return kicks the way he did in week 17 every week he would be the greatest RB and KR to ever step on a football field. If Vereen could play like he did in the Browns game every week he would make Marshall Faulk resemble a practice squad player.

My question is why is the groin an excuse? He suffered the injury in week 1 still played well through the pain, then he did have a few good to great games in week 9 and week 15. That doesn't seem like a player hindered by an injury it seems like a player who excels in certain match ups and struggles in others.

 

[pazrul72]

I mean no disrespect here Sup and Manx but I think your fondness of Amendola is clouding your opinion. Edelman received consistent first team reps for the first time in his career and delivered with 100+ reception and 1000+ receiving yard season. Amendola has received first team reps for the most of his career and hasn't achieved either of those things.

I get that you guys like Amendola and I even understand it but to sit here and suggest he is better than Edelman is completely built on hope, a hope that he puts it all together and has a season like Edelman already had. Hope is not an outcome it is a possibility, until Amendola does it he is not better than Welker or Edelman.

I sort of understand the thought process if Danny Amendola could do what he did in week one every week he would be amazing, that is true with so many players in the NFL though - if they could do what they did in a certain game or few games during the season they'd be incredible. Take Blount if he could run the football and return kicks the way he did in week 17 every week he would be the greatest RB and KR to ever step on a football field. If Vereen could play like he did in the Browns game every week he would make Marshall Faulk resemble a practice squad player.

My question is why is the groin an excuse? He suffered the injury in week 1 still played well through the pain, then he did have a few good to great games in week 9 and week 15. That doesn't seem like a player hindered by an injury it seems like a player who excels in certain match ups and struggles in others.

Couple of things I disagree with here...obviously its only the elite great players that are consistent week in and week out. For example last year with all his weapons I could pencil in Brady for 300 yards and 2 Td's every single week because that was his minimum as one of the best QB's in the league. Amendola is not in that catagory nor is he being paid like he is in that catagory. WR's like that get 10 -15 mil a year. Is he overpaid? Maybe a smidge but he IS injuried and its the lingering kind that while "healed" might make certain moves still difficult. Still the pats knew about his long line of injuries so its not like it couldn't have been taken into account better. In the end IMO Amendola is being paid a reasonable amount of money for his production and there are other players I would quibble are overpaid first *cough* Mankins *cough*

The second point I would like to raise, and its not just you B6 but posters who get hung up on stats in general, is there is a HUGE difference between production and being a football player. Who's more valuable Wilfork or Ware? I would argue they are equal players but most people point to Ware's stats to say he is clearly more valuable. I don't have the exact quote but Eldeman himself has said he has so much further to go with route running, blocking, and being a total WR.

While Eldeman has been clearly the more productive player I believe if you compare Amendola the football player to Eldeman it is FAR closer then the slam dunk Eldeman is better arguement it sounds to me like you believe. I have seen many of those catches Eldeman got where Danny was clearing a DB 5 yards downfield because he is the superior blocker of the two. That's playing the scheme and being unselfish for the greater good. I am happy as all he$$ for Eldeman and he deserves every penny of the contract he is going to earn. I have been rooting for him since the Baltimore game in 09 and hearing about how hard he was working to learn being an NFL receiver in training camp. He is obviously the better open space guy between him and Amendola and one of the best in the league at that particular skill. Thus the insane punt return numbers he has put up. To sum up my point is don't let that one particular skill, which gets measured, detract from the many OTHER skills needed to produce those stats. Amendola and Eldeman are both football players and I personally rate them pretty close to equal and am damn happy and proud of both of them for the season they've been having.

 

[ATippett56]

This situation is somewhat similar to the situations of Gregory and Connolly. They both were clearly going to be kept for the 2013 season. The choice for the patriots (for each of them) is after this season.

Since neither Gregory or Connolly lost their starting jobs this season nor were placed on injured reserve, I would expect both to be back next season.

 

[supafly]

I don't have the exact quote but Eldeman himself has said he has so much further to go with route running, blocking, and being a total WR.

I saw that within the past couple of weeks myself. I believe it came from an interview that was recorded, so it may explain why there's no link. Yes, Edelman did refer to having a lot of weaknesses, but did admit that he was attempting to overcome these, along with continued hopeful progression from working hard. Props to him for having a great year, but the offense revolved around him for the most part due to extenuating circumstances.

Edelman was the primary target this year due to a lack of other viable options. As we've seen plenty of times, this can change year to year or even game to game, based on many other factors. It would appear that Edelman was the go-to guy due to having a better rapport with Brady, along with the fact that he didn't miss any time like Danny did, which likely messed with Brady's chemistry with Amendola, not to mention force our offense to change in the slot.

All you have to do is look at the week #1 game to realize that when Amendola is the primary target, he is obviously going to produce higher numbers. It also may be one of the reasons why Edelman may walk for a better offer, since we already have a very good slot receiver on the team and won't be looking to overpay out of desperation. Had Amendola been the primary target in the slot and Edelman playing more outside routes, the production would be the other way around. This is exactly why my concern is minimal. There are many larger issues on the team, and even at the position of WR, than worrying about Danny Amendola after year one.

 

[supafly]

I mean no disrespect here Sup and Manx but I think your fondness of Amendola is clouding your opinion.

No disrespect taken. Just so you know, prior to you joining here, I had stats and a prediction about Julian Edelman in my signature. Many laughed at me, and predicted that he wouldn't even make it out of camp again. I was one of his bigger supporters, who even brought up a thread exploring the possibility of trading Wes Welker while his value was still at its highest prior to his last season here, since I did not believe for one second that we would franchise him 2 years in a row, and felt that if he were going to stay we'd have likely signed him by the beginning of 2012.

This is nothing about disliking Julian Edelman, nor being more fond of Danny Amendola. I simply don't believe in attempting to judge after one year where Amendola was nothing near the focal point of the receiving game, such as Julian Edelman was.

That isn't even bringing into account how strange our receiving year was here. Things looked much different last year, and one would have to imagine that Bill Belichick will be addressing this yet again, much like he did in 2006 when our receiving corps was a joke.

I get that you guys like Amendola and I even understand it but to sit here and suggest he is better than Edelman is completely built on hope, a hope that he puts it all together and has a season like Edelman already had.

Amendola led the NFL in kick return yardage and was top 3 in punt return yardage in just his rookie season, also catching 43 balls. The next full year he went on to catch 85 passes, so let's not act like he's never had a "good year," or that Julian Edelman totally blew him away. Any receiver who typically catches 50-60 balls a year while missing time is going to be taken a lot more seriously than a guy who had totals of 37, 7, 4, and 21. There's no "hope" involved aside from hoping that Amendola (and Edelman) both stay healthy. It just so happens that Belichick felt that using Edelman in the slot as our primary quick passing target was best for the team this past season...nothing more.

All you're doing is making the exact same argument with Amendola as many of Edelman's doubters did with him. He had one good year in 5 NFL seasons, and that was under our dire circumstances here at the WR position. As a whole, you know darn well that Amendola has been more reliable and productive than Edelman has throughout their careers. You are basing your entire debate and judgement off of one season that showed us some of the most dire circumstances that we've seen at the WR position in many, many years here in N.England.

I sort of understand the thought process if Danny Amendola could do what he did in week one every week he would be amazing

I'm sure not that there are too many here aside from yourself who don't think that's possible. All you have to do is look at the difference in targets this season, where Edelman had more than 150+ targets. Did Amendola even get 1/2 of that number?

Rotoworld.com puts the situation into perspective very nicely with their fantasy report from week #17:

"Buried behind Julian Edelman in the slot, Amendola enters the postseason as a part-time player."

There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that Danny Amendola isn't going to produce anything more than 54 catches during his time here as a Patriot. Assignments and responsibilities change from season to season, along with the personnel that we have to play at the position itself. Edelman got the call to be our focal point this season, and Amendola may very well get that same call next year. If not, he'll have to hope that he turns those 54 catches into about 70-75 or so, or his situation will be addressed at some point in the next couple of seasons.

 

[manxman2601]

I mean no disrespect here Sup and Manx but I think your fondness of Amendola is clouding your opinion. Edelman received consistent first team reps for the first time in his career and delivered with 100+ reception and 1000+ receiving yard season. Amendola has received first team reps for the most of his career and hasn't achieved either of those things.

I get that you guys like Amendola and I even understand it but to sit here and suggest he is better than Edelman is completely built on hope, a hope that he puts it all together and has a season like Edelman already had. Hope is not an outcome it is a possibility, until Amendola does it he is not better than Welker or Edelman.

I sort of understand the thought process if Danny Amendola could do what he did in week one every week he would be amazing, that is true with so many players in the NFL though - if they could do what they did in a certain game or few games during the season they'd be incredible. Take Blount if he could run the football and return kicks the way he did in week 17 every week he would be the greatest RB and KR to ever step on a football field. If Vereen could play like he did in the Browns game every week he would make Marshall Faulk resemble a practice squad player.

My question is why is the groin an excuse? He suffered the injury in week 1 still played well through the pain, then he did have a few good to great games in week 9 and week 15. That doesn't seem like a player hindered by an injury it seems like a player who excels in certain match ups and struggles in others.

I echo Supa's sentiments.

You are misunderstanding mine and Supa's point. Neither of us are saying that one is better than the other, all we are saying is that it's too early to make a judgement either way. The best one can say when comparing the two is that Edelman has had a more productive season this year.

Brady is a QB who relies on being on the same page as his receivers and in a very difficult season for him, with so many new receivers, he clearly defaulted to Gronk and Edelman with whom he has extensive experience (this became most apparent when he started throwing to Gronk in triple coverage). Edelman provides Brady with a comfort blanket and that's why he's been getting so many targets. There is no reason to think that with some more working together that Amendola and Brady can't get there too. And rushing to judgement on Amendola as you and others have done is just premature.

As for your point about his injury, all I said is that he had a season in which he was injured, an undeniable point, I said nothing about whether or not he is still affected by his groin. That's because I'm not a doctor and I'm guessing neither are you which makes your pronouncements about him being healthy a little surprising.

 

[supafly]

Brady is a QB who relies on being on the same page as his receivers and in a very difficult season for him, with so many new receivers, he clearly defaulted to Gronk and Edelman with whom he has extensive experience (this became most apparent when he started throwing to Gronk in triple coverage).

Yes, this is an excellent point and pretty much puts our poor receiving options from this season into perspective.

We started to see Brady forcing some throws again, reminiscent of some of his later throw to Randy Moss, with players who were simply not open. This was apparent in the stat line of Gronk's previous years here, and Brady only throwing a very small amount of INT's to Gronk (I believe it was 1 or 2 total in his previous 3 seasons), and this particular season, where he already had thrown 4 looking for Gronk in his first handful of games back.

We also saw this example with Edelman too, and the example in the Saints game was another prime one. That is just not normally a throw that Brady makes under ANY circumstance. What he did this year under these conditions was simply amazing, and after reading of his constant phone calls and texts to the rookies after practice every day and even throughout the evening, I have even more respect for Brady. As I've said before, he has been attempting to spin straw into gold this year with an obvious lack of talent and experience; not that I don't agree that our receiving corps needed an overhaul of sorts, because I do. I just think our situations with Gronk, Hernandez, and Vereen (along with Amendola's early injury) made things that much harder to try and develop any cohesion.

 

[supafly]

Since neither Gregory or Connolly lost their starting jobs this season nor were placed on injured reserve, I would expect both to be back next season.

I think that mgteich's point was that we didn't have much of a choice in terms of being able to realistically cut them and replace them to save money. Those decisions will be made in this particular offseason due to how the contract was structured, as this would be the first year that we'd see significant enough savings for those moves.

I think a number of important factors will go into those decisions, just like every year. I would not expect the fact that neither player lost their starting jobs this season to have anything to do with whether or not they end up being kept for next year, as we've seen plenty of seasons where we used different starters from year to year. It's quite possible that Belichick may have felt that we had no other reasonable options at one or both of those positions for 2013. That could certainly change for 2014.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I mean no disrespect here Sup and Manx but I think your fondness of Amendola is clouding your opinion. Edelman received consistent first team reps for the first time in his career and delivered with 100+ reception and 1000+ receiving yard season. Amendola has received first team reps for the most of his career and hasn't achieved either of those things.

I get that you guys like Amendola and I even understand it but to sit here and suggest he is better than Edelman is completely built on hope, a hope that he puts it all together and has a season like Edelman already had. Hope is not an outcome it is a possibility, until Amendola does it he is not better than Welker or Edelman.

I sort of understand the thought process if Danny Amendola could do what he did in week one every week he would be amazing, that is true with so many players in the NFL though - if they could do what they did in a certain game or few games during the season they'd be incredible. Take Blount if he could run the football and return kicks the way he did in week 17 every week he would be the greatest RB and KR to ever step on a football field. If Vereen could play like he did in the Browns game every week he would make Marshall Faulk resemble a practice squad player.

My question is why is the groin an excuse? He suffered the injury in week 1 still played well through the pain, then he did have a few good to great games in week 9 and week 15. That doesn't seem like a player hindered by an injury it seems like a player who excels in certain match ups and struggles in others.

Sorry to jump into the mix. I also mean no disrespect B6. However, that one line of yours kind of sticks out. Do you realize that at this point there shouldn't be a regular or casual poster who isn't crystal clear on what your feelings on Amendola are? The high volume/high frequency of your posting on the subject is that large. And while I am not suggesting you can't/shouldn't tell others their opinions are clouded by a feeling (fondness for Amendola), you should know that the sheer volume/repetition of your posting on the subject alone suggests your view is clouded by a feeling.
Fyi, this isn't to say you shouldn't do it -- have at it as much as you want if you enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with taking up a subject/argument and pressing home as much as you'd like. Hell we are all here because of similar motivation (our fondness/passion for the Patriots). But it's fair to say our opinions on the Patriots are probably pre-clouded by that same feeling that keeps us coming back here with high frequency.

Again, I mean no offense. My post above is just an observation I think you should consider....

 

[Joker]

yeah...that Amendola needs to step up...Wes Welker is watching!!

 

[ATippett56]

I think that mgteich's point was that we didn't have much of a choice in terms of being able to realistically cut them and replace them to save money. Those decisions will be made in this particular offseason due to how the contract was structured, as this would be the first year that we'd see significant enough savings for those moves.

I think a number of important factors will go into those decisions, just like every year. I would not expect the fact that neither player lost their starting jobs this season to have anything to do with whether or not they end up being kept for next year, as we've seen plenty of seasons where we used different starters from year to year. It's quite possible that Belichick may have felt that we had no other reasonable options at one or both of those positions for 2013. That could certainly change for 2014.

If you want to see significant enough savings, the New England Patriots can start by cutting Adrian Wilson (34 years of age), Tommy Kelly (33 years of age), Isaac Sopoaga (32 years of age). That amounts to $6.167 million in salary cap savings (not taking account replacement costs).

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

If you want to see significant enough savings, the New England Patriots can start by cutting Adrian Wilson (34 years of age), Tommy Kelly (33 years of age), Isaac Sopoaga (32 years of age). That amounts to $6.167 million in salary cap savings (not taking account replacement costs).

Hard to see any of these 3 sticking around considering the money is much needed for other signings.
On Kelly, I'd like to see him stick around but it's probably too tempting a savings. But if we have struck gold with SIliga (if he's for real), an interior DL depth chart of Vince, Kelly, Siliga, Jones is not bad.
On Sopoaga, wow! Considering how desperately we needed a DT who just needed to be a one trick pony (stop the run), what an utter disappointment that he can't even crack the active roster when the DTs above him are all unknowns. Either Sopoaga's hurt or it's time to hang it up.