Is our defense good enough for a SB run?

[n1997y]

You thinking offense alone is responsible for wins is where you’ve lost the plot. It’s a combination of all three phases. Tom Brady passed for 505 yards and 3 TD’s but lost to Nick Foles… it wasn’t for a lack of offense.

When we’re specifically discussing offense or defense I look at points per drive. This stat isolates offense, defense and special teams. It’s a better stat for judging these units individually. Total points is a team stat.

Marcus Jones took an interception back to the house or Chaisson picked up a fumble in the endzone… those aren’t points scored by our offense. Neither are Marcus Jones punt return TD’s... which are bountiful.

PPD stats are found on Pro Football Reference.

No, I’m not saying offense is playing alone. In fact the point I’m trying to make, obviously not very well because you totally missed it, is somewhat different: the offense has contributing to wins as its primary purpose. Not just scoring points.

Giants game was a good example. By halftime the mission of the offense became not losing the game more than it was running up the score. They were more concerned with keeping the Giants off the field and off the scoreboard then they were with scoring more points when they already had enough to win the game.

Note that I’m not saying that’s the way I think they should play. I’m saying it’s what I see Josh doing once we get the game under control. But it distorts the PPD stats.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Draft well.

I agree, but you still have to hit home runs when you go big money for a free agent, as they did with Milt Williams. You can't miss when you give a guy 25-35 million a season.

 

[n1997y]

I agree, but you still have to hit home runs when you go big money for a free agent, as they did with Milt Williams. You can't miss when you give a guy 25-35 million a season.

Oh yes definitely agree. But it’s even better when you hit home runs in the draft. That’s how you end up with a roster full of players like Gonzo, Maye, Big Country, Henderson, Woodson, et al at an affordable price. It would be hard to stock the roster with that much talent through free agency without getting into cap hell.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Oh yes definitely agree. But it’s even better when you hit home runs in the draft. That’s how you end up with a roster full of players like Gonzo, Maye, Big Country, Henderson, Woodson, et al at an affordable price. It would be hard to stock the roster with that much talent through free agency without getting into cap hell.

And ultimately that's what they will have to do, and I think Vrabel needs to get Kraft to designate Cowden as GM with final say, otherwise they will lose him. And I don't believe Wolf would object to this if it's the best way to keep the front office together.

 

[Water Boy]

Would you rather have poor starts and poor red zone efficiency or start well be better in the red zone and allow more points?
Every defense has positives and negatives. Ours add up to allowing fewer points than 27 of the other 31 teams.

I don't think there is an insuation or shouldn't be that we don't have a solid defense. The question is can we overcome potential weaknesses in those one or two plays a game that could be the difference between Super Bowl glory and being bounced from the playoffs.

 

[condon84]

I've noticed we play soft zone in the early downs. Against a good OC/ competent QB, it could easily be exploited.

I don't want to face the Broncos in the playoffs. Payton is a great offensive mind and Nix is always looking to check down and not trying to put the ball in harm's way. It's the worst possible matchup.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think there is an insuation or shouldn't be that we don't have a solid defense. The question is can we overcome potential weaknesses in those one or two plays a game that could be the difference between Super Bowl glory and being bounced from the playoffs.

We are as equipped to do so as pretty much anyone else.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I've noticed we play soft zone in the early downs. Against a good OC/ competent QB, it could easily be exploited.

I don't want to face the Broncos in the playoffs. Payton is a great offensive mind and Nix is always looking to check down and not trying to put the ball in harm's way. It's the worst possible matchup.

You have to beat the best to be the best. The Patriots can't fear anyone, they just have to play their asses off and hope that's good enough. Even if they lose they are way ahead of schedule, and will contend for years to come.

 

[Wozzy]

No, I’m not saying offense is playing alone. In fact the point I’m trying to make, obviously not very well because you totally missed it, is somewhat different: the offense has contributing to wins as its primary purpose. Not just scoring points.

Giants game was a good example. By halftime the mission of the offense became not losing the game more than it was running up the score. They were more concerned with keeping the Giants off the field and off the scoreboard then they were with scoring more points when they already had enough to win the game.

Note that I’m not saying that’s the way I think they should play. I’m saying it’s what I see Josh doing once we get the game under control. But it distorts the PPD stats.

Maybe… I still think the offense wants to end every long time consuming drive with points. And the defense still wants to get off the field. I’m not trying to harangue you, just pushing back on earlier posts by other posters implying the offense was amazing and our defense isn’t very good.

Our offense and defense are top ten best, even with schedule or whatever BS people want to throw at it. Look at the wins, look at the wins against teams with winning records. We shouldn’t be afraid to say these Pats are very good.

 

[n1997y]

Maybe… I still think the offense wants to end every long time consuming drive with points. And the defense still wants to get off the field. I’m not trying to harangue you, just pushing back on earlier posts by other posters implying the offense was amazing and our defense isn’t very good.

Our offense and defense are top ten best, even with schedule or whatever BS people want to throw at it. Look at the wins, look at the wins against teams with winning records. We shouldn’t be afraid to say these Pats are very good.

Of course they want to come away with points, but three instead of six may be better if they burn more clock and take fewer risks. And that’s my point, FG makes PPD look worse than a TD but depending on game situation may be a preferable outcome

 

[Wozzy]

Of course they want to come away with points, but three instead of six may be better if they burn more clock and take fewer risks. And that’s my point, FG makes PPD look worse than a TD but depending on game situation may be a preferable outcome

Maybe, my only point is the defense is just as good as our offense if not better.

Neither is perfect and both can improve, but the defense has shutdown opposing teams when it mattered most. Almost all the points they’ve allowed came on the opponents first drive.

 

[n1997y]

Maybe, my only point is the defense is just as good as our offense if not better.

Neither is perfect and both can improve, but the defense has shutdown opposing teams when it mattered most. Almost all the points they’ve allowed came on the opponents first drive.

Totally agree. And that is impressive with our offense being pretty good.

 

[Lansdowne]

I don’t feel like sifting through the entire thread to confirm this but I’m confident this point has already been made: worse defenses than ours have gone on to win the Super Bowl in the past. So I say yes, our defense is good enough for a SB run.

 

[Hyped]

We need Milton Williams back, Stat!

 

[n1997y]

We need Milton Williams back, Stat!

January will be soon enough

 

[Huckleberry1]

January will be soon enough

Yep. I would rather have him fully healthy than limping around.

 

[Wozzy]

I don’t feel like sifting through the entire thread to confirm this but I’m confident this point has already been made: worse defenses than ours have gone on to win the Super Bowl in the past. So I say yes, our defense is good enough for a SB run.

Worse offenses as well.

 

[reflexblue]

The Patriots give up touchdowns on 73.1 percent of their teams' trips inside their own 20, which is dead last (No. 32) in the league. New England is overall a sound defense for Mike Vrabel with stoutness against the run and improving pop against the pass. But if Drake Maye and the offense has to settle for field goals, the opponents can make it up big time with touchdowns to end longer drives.

 

[condon84]

The Patriots give up touchdowns on 73.1 percent of their teams' trips inside their own 20, which is dead last (No. 32) in the league. New England is overall a sound defense for Mike Vrabel with stoutness against the run and improving pop against the pass. But if Drake Maye and the offense has to settle for field goals, the opponents can make it up big time with touchdowns to end longer drives.

That's a troubling stat given that inside the 20 and the field being condensed, it should be easier to defend. We have one of the best CB rooms with Gonzo, Davis, and Jones. Both Hawkins and Woodson aren't terrible at safety and our front 7 isn't that bad. This has to be a scheme/coaching issue.

I think we need a better defensive mind in the organization. Terrell Williams could be him but we don't know because he's MIA.

 

[Huckleberry1]

That's a troubling stat given that inside the 20 and the field being condensed, it should be easier to defend. We have one of the best CB rooms with Gonzo, Davis, and Jones. Both Hawkins and Woodson aren't terrible at safety and our front 7 isn't that bad. This has to be a scheme/coaching issue.

I think we need a better defensive mind in the organization. Terrell Williams could be him but we don't know because he's MIA.

Vrabel is one of the best defensive minds in football.