Inside the most dysfunctional Pats season under BB

[mike_usagisan]

If I had to choose among Neither Jon Jones nor Meyers will be re-signed; Both will be re-signed; or Only One will be... I would choose Only One, just a feeling... And whom they re-sign will affect nearly every other move during free agency, and at which positions... Could mean an either/or situation with targets like Payne & Edmunds too... I'd also like to see them force Trent Brown to "restructure" his contract before the new league year, because they can save over $10M by cutting his fat, dumb, lazy ass so they're holding all the cards...

I think this sounds exactly right on Jon Jones and Meyers, but I'm also kind of hopeful that they make a trade and bring in a good young experienced WR.

I don't know a lot about the OT market, but aren't the choices in FA pretty bad and Trent Brown (when healthy and well-coached) is a decent OT. I'd focus more on drafting a swing tackle and do a high draft on another OT. I guess I'm saying I think we'll have a better chance drafting two good OTs rather than three?

 

[Ollie]

Bill isn't an offensive guy. He's a defensive coach. That's why the offense was still poor when Bill had to essentially call plays sometimes because Patricia and Judge we're so bad.

The offense works best when Bill concedes that side of the ball to the experts and he can focus on the defense and the little things on special teams etc. So let BOB handle what he does best and Bill can handle what he does best.

I think he was spread too thin last year. Which could be why we see lack of discipline

The lack of discipline was mainly on offense if i recall? I do think a lot of it was the players on offense not buying in mentally on what was happening and the frustration leading to mental lapses.

 

[Calhoun44]

I'm specifically talking about bringing in talent vs jags. The dudes that cost money. We need weaponz.

View attachment 49650

Okay, that is your preference, but it doesn't mean BB is not trying. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[jimnance]

I think this sounds exactly right on Jon Jones and Meyers, but I'm also kind of hopeful that they make a trade and bring in a good young experienced WR.

I don't know a lot about the OT market, but aren't the choices in FA pretty bad and Trent Brown (when healthy and well-coached) is a decent OT. I'd focus more on drafting a swing tackle and do a high draft on another OT. I guess I'm saying I think we'll have a better chance drafting two good OTs rather than three?

Trent Brown sucked last season. He was mostly healthy. He definitely was  not well- coached. But hes an experienced vet,no excuse for how bad he played.
He hurt the offense almost as much as the stupid coaching sutuation. He was one of the most penalized ots in the league. A lot of them were 3rd down drive killers. For a vet, a lot of penalties speaks to lack of effort more than anything else. He wasn't even mediocre last year- he was useless. Only Wynn was worse.
Can he turn it around? I have my doubts. He might be done. If they keep him and he plays like last year,there will be no Mac/ Zappe debate. Mac will be killed by another passrusher blowing by Brown.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Trent Brown sucked last season. He was mostly healthy. He definitely was  not well- coached. But hes an experienced vet,no excuse for how bad he played.
He hurt the offense almost as much as the stupid coaching sutuation. He was one of the most penalized ots in the league. A lot of them were 3rd down drive killers. For a vet, a lot of penalties speaks to lack of effort more than anything else. He wasn't even mediocre last year- he was useless. Only Wynn was worse.
Can he turn it around? I have my doubts. He might be done. If they keep him and he plays like last year,there will be no Mac/ Zappe debate. Mac will be killed by another passrusher blowing by Brown.

Right, I think that's what I meant by the well-coached part. I think if we had a real OL coach, maybe he wouldn't have had so many penalties. I guess it's up to the Pats to decide whether he can be salvaged, but they probably have a much better sense of that than we do on the outside.

 

[Ollie]

Right, I think that's what I meant by the well-coached part. I think if we had a real OL coach, maybe he wouldn't have had so many penalties. I guess it's up to the Pats to decide whether he can be salvaged, but they probably have a much better sense of that than we do on the outside.

Agreed, i do think it's strange that we took a good RT and an average LT from 2021 and turned them into awful LT and RT's to the point where it's pretty much thought we have 0 tackles

 

[jimnance]

Right, I think that's what I meant by the well-coached part. I think if we had a real OL coach, maybe he wouldn't have had so many penalties. I guess it's up to the Pats to decide whether he can be salvaged, but they probably have a much better sense of that than we do on the outside.

If by some miracle they could get His Laziness to be motivated and play even 80% of what he was a few years ago,that would obviously be great. One less draft pick used or cap space spent on a fa. But I have serious doubts. Would be awesome if he proved me wrong

 

[ralmat55]

Bill isn't an offensive guy. He's a defensive coach. That's why the offense was still poor when Bill had to essentially call plays sometimes because Patricia and Judge we're so bad.

The offense works best when Bill concedes that side of the ball to the experts and he can focus on the defense and the little things on special teams etc. So let BOB handle what he does best and Bill can handle what he does best.

I think he was spread too thin last year. Which could be why we see lack of discipline

They’ve lacked discipline for several seasons even before Josh left and Bill and the Blunder twins had to take over the offense.

 

[captain stone]

I think this sounds exactly right on Jon Jones and Meyers, but I'm also kind of hopeful that they make a trade and bring in a good young experienced WR.

I don't know a lot about the OT market, but aren't the choices in FA pretty bad and Trent Brown (when healthy and well-coached) is a decent OT. I'd focus more on drafting a swing tackle and do a high draft on another OT. I guess I'm saying I think we'll have a better chance drafting two good OTs rather than three?

Yeah the starting LT FA market has only one name in it: Orlando Brown, who's almost as fat as Trent Brown.

I wouldn't object to TBrown returning to RT, preferably at Half the cap hit, from $12M to $5-7M.

If he agrees, then instead of drafting three OTs we need to draft only two Plus a Center of the Future... Wisconsin's Joe Tippmann has the size & length to possibly serve as both Backup Center (buh-bye Thanksdad) and Swing Tackle, though he hasn't had experience at OT in college as far as I know... We do however need to draft our 2023 Starting LT by the end of day 2, of that there is no doubt.

 

[State]

Yes, they went backwards. It's the first time since Bill got here in 2000 that they went backwards,

I’m curious why you have memory dumped the second half of the Cam year, 2020. We definitely went back then once he came back from the virus.

So this is now twice. A pattern is beginning to form.

And Belichick just refused to put in Stidham once he was healthy and Cam Newton never was able to master the McDaniel playbook. And lacked arm strength.

When are you going to have the Jerry Maguire ah-ha moment? The problem is Belichick.

 

[DaBruinz]

I’m curious why you have memory dumped the second half of the Cam year, 2020. We definitely went back then once he came back from the virus.

So this is now twice. A pattern is beginning to form.

And Belichick just refused to put in Stidham once he was healthy and Cam Newton never was able to master the McDaniel playbook. And lacked arm strength.

When are you going to have the Jerry Maguire ah-ha moment? The problem is Belichick.

No. The problem is your revisionist history.
Stidham didn't earn his way onto the field. You seem to forget that. There were rumors about Stidham's lack of preparedness as much as Newton's. 2020 was a weird year because of all the players who opted out. Woulda been an entirely different team if they hadn't.

Focusing on less than half a season to say that the team regressed because of forces far outside anyone's control is just asinine. And you certainly can't claim a "pattern is forming" unless you8 completely ignore the outside forces that had nothing to do with the team practicing, meeting, etc..

 

[TomPatriot]

Yeah the starting LT FA market has only one name in it: Orlando Brown, who's almost as fat as Trent Brown.

I wouldn't object to TBrown returning to RT, preferably at Half the cap hit, from $12M to $5-7M.

If he agrees, then instead of drafting three OTs we need to draft only two Plus a Center of the Future... Wisconsin's Joe Tippmann has the size & length to possibly serve as both Backup Center (buh-bye Thanksdad) and Swing Tackle, though he hasn't had experience at OT in college as far as I know... We do however need to draft our 2023 Starting LT by the end of day 2, of that there is no doubt.

He’s already at market rate for a RT and there is a dearth of tackles in the NFL. I think they’re keeping him but not with a pay cut, unless his contract is being restructured.

 

[Steve102]

I’m curious why you have memory dumped the second half of the Cam year, 2020. We definitely went back then once he came back from the virus.

So this is now twice. A pattern is beginning to form.

And Belichick just refused to put in Stidham once he was healthy and Cam Newton never was able to master the McDaniel playbook. And lacked arm strength.

When are you going to have the Jerry Maguire ah-ha moment? The problem is Belichick.

Yeah 2020 is a complete reset, with a ****ty QB they paid NFL equivalent to minimum wage. I do 100% discount it. 2021 improved, 2022 was a suck fest, all of it on Bill. I don't have a clue why he stayed with Cam in 2020, who was clearly done, over Stid, who has not exactly lit it up since he left. I certainly had a little IBWT in 2020, much less so now.

I do think that Bill had some misplaced loyalty to Cam, pumped his tires to the media when he 100% sucked, yet coached Brady hard, Johnny Foxboro style, until the end. Obviously there was something in the the locker room that Bill felt Cam needed to be built up, as opposed to how he coached Brady hard. I have said for a while (I'm not going to dig it up) that Bill could have brought Tom into the fold and treated him more as an equal or peer than just another player. He had more in common with Tom as they both aged, both with their NFL resume and their off the field life, with families, stardom, wealth ect. Bill was unable to do that. I think that he has "his system" and he's not going to alter it for anyone. He didn't for LT, and he didn't for Tom. Maybe there's a bit of Parcells tenets there when it comes to QBs: Don't have superstar QBs. I dunno.

I think the man is the best coach in the modern day, SB era. He's not infallible. He 100% could have handled the Brady thing a multitude of ways, and chose the hardline, which, we all know now, was wrong.

Happy?

 

[captain stone]

He’s already at market rate for a RT and there is a dearth of tackles in the NFL. I think they’re keeping him but not with a pay cut, unless his contract is being restructured.

We save > $10M by cutting him, and I don't think he could fetch an 8-figure/year deal if he were... And that's exactly what I would tell him.

 

[RIpats88]

For years we laughed at teams like the Jets for "ruining guys" with poor coaching and bad decisions.

Yet we are supposed to just shrug off Bill hiring 2 unqualified guys and wasting a year of our rookie QB (possibly setting him back or ruining him) and putting a barely NFL offense on the field.

It was totally avoidable too. All bill had to do was hire a guy who had coached offense before. Anyone!

 

[archstanton543]

For years we laughed at teams like the Jets for "ruining guys" with poor coaching and bad decisions.

Yet we are supposed to just shrug off Bill hiring 2 unqualified guys and wasting a year of our rookie QB (possibly setting him back or ruining him) and putting a barely NFL offense on the field.

It was totally avoidable too. All bill had to do was hire a guy who had coached offense before. Anyone!

But he truly beloved that coaches coach. Any coach at the professional level can coach any position. He was proven wrong so hopefully he won't make that same mistake again the rest of his career.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

It's hard to evaluate a single OT in isolation because we don't know the blocking schemes. But Trent Brown according to this chart had the second-highest degree of difficulty of any LT in the League:



High degree of difficulty can obviously cause more holding penalties, and also more false starts. He's a very big guy and if asked to reach for a block in space there's a temptation to start moving too early.

 

[Rob0729]

It's hard to evaluate a single OT in isolation because we don't know the blocking schemes. But Trent Brown according to this chart had the second-highest degree of difficulty of any LT in the League:



High degree of difficulty can obviously cause more holding penalties, and also more false starts. He's a very big guy and if asked to reach for a block in space there's a temptation to start moving too early.

Can the degree of difficulty make a tackle not actually block his assignment at all? Because Trent Brown did that far too much this past season. There were far too many times his blocking assignment got by him untouched or virtually untouched.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Can the degree of difficulty make a tackle not actually block his assignment at all?

If you are going up against the best edge rushers in the game time and again without any help, sometimes you are going to whiff. He's very big and maybe he has lost a step, so likely to have some issues with speed rushers.

Between the ever-rotating cast of characters playing OL, the switch from RT to LT, the time wasted trying to install some version of zone blocking and the amateur hour at OL coach it's hard to expect great performances. (But I concede Onwenu did great).

My prediction is he stays.

 

[Rob0729]

If you are going up against the best edge rushers in the game time and again without any help, sometimes you are going to whiff. He's very big and maybe he has lost a step, so likely to have some issues with speed rushers.

Between the ever-rotating cast of characters playing OL, the switch from RT to LT, the time wasted trying to install some version of zone blocking and the amateur hour at OL coach it's hard to expect great performances. (But I concede Onwenu did great).

My prediction is he stays.

You really think these plays are because of the level of competition or the rotation of players on the o-line?