Inside the most dysfunctional Pats season under BB

[venecol]

Agreed. Clearly puzzling.

Not clear at all that it was BB's idea to change up, or shift the system. You are guessing.

Yes I'm guessing based on the fact that nothing happens w/o his consent. Now is it possible that Patricia gave Bill the idea? Yes that's possible, but the fact it was implemented means Bill owns it.

BTW, I'm not against the idea of what they attempted to do at all. They just had the wrong three guys to do it: BB/FM/JJ.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

Pats have 3 more picks for JC, Karras and whats his name.

A 4th, 6th and a 7th those are not premium picks. The narrative about how much cap space and draft picks the patriots have this year is BS. They also have a ton of free agents that will be leaving, and a league average qb. Talent wise it would be great to see them swing for the fences just once.
Look how the eagles put their team together

 

[Toofy]

I do not think T Brown will take a payout, but we need 2 OTs anyway. This is T Browns last season and if he was the swing tackle backup by year's end I would be happy.

Make it incentive driven with penalties and sack numbers counting against the incentive . No point paying brown just based on availability. I don't think anyone is going to pay brown 10 million based on his performance this year and his attitude issues outside of pats which are well documented.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

The narrative about how much cap space and draft picks the patriots have this year is BS. They also have a ton of free agents that will be leaving, and a league average qb.

This is objectively not correct. The Pats are comfortably in the top 10 teams in the League in both draft capital and effective cap space. And the teams above us are not great threats. Every team has a ton of free agents leaving - the Pats are pretty average in this respect. (A simple measure of the number of free agents leaving is the difference between cap space and effective cap space). We have very little dead money (mostly depends on McCourty) and nothing in the way of voidable contracts that simply push the reckoning down the road.

The Bills and the Dolphins both have much inferior draft capital and each have more than $50m less in effective cap space than the Pats. The Jets are some better than Bills/Dolphins, but still much worse than the Pats.

 

[venecol]

Make it incentive driven with penalties and sack numbers counting against the incentive . No point paying brown just based on availability. I don't think anyone is going to pay brown 10 million based on his performance this year and his attitude issues outside of pats which are well documented.

You would be surprised what teams are willing to pay even average players based on potential. Or maybe not since we've lived it.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Sure, if they had a handshake deal but there's no evidence that they even met. It's all speculation. We don't know how the Krafts want to proceed once Bill retires. It will depend on how the team performs in his last few seasons. If they remain a middling team, why would they want to keep Bill's system that was once successful but didn't remain so once he was the only one left from the dynasty days.


Bill allowed it to happen because it was his idea, clearly.

So the organization isn’t just laughably incompetent with Judge/Patricia. They’re also underhanded and already had a handshake agreement to replace the guys they just brought in

This is almost like: Bill knew the Patriots couldn’t win SB52, so he benched Butler to unite the team against him for the following season, knowing a year in advance they’d be able to beat Jared Goff in SB53.

#TeamBill

 

[archstanton543]

So the organization isn’t just laughably incompetent with Judge/Patricia. They’re also underhanded and already had a handshake agreement to replace the guys they just brought in

This is almost like: Bill knew the Patriots couldn’t win SB52, so he benched Butler to unite the team against him for the following season, knowing a year in advance they’d be able to beat Jared Goff in SB53.

#TeamBill

Chess vs. checkers

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

This is objectively not correct. The Pats are comfortably in the top 10 teams in the League in both draft capital and effective cap space. And the teams above us are not great threats. Every team has a ton of free agents leaving - the Pats are pretty average in this respect. (A simple measure of the number of free agents leaving is the difference between cap space and effective cap space). We have very little dead money (mostly depends on McCourty) and nothing in the way of voidable contracts that simply push the reckoning down the road.

The Bills and the Dolphins both have much inferior draft capital and each have more than $50m less in effective cap space than the Pats. The Jets are some better than Bills/Dolphins, but still much worse than the Pats.

Still in absolute terms, it is being overstated. 3 draft picks in first 3 rounds. Late round draft picks have very low hit rate

 

[SlowGettingUp]

3 draft picks in first 3 rounds

But they are higher in the round than we are used to as well as 2 picks in the 4th round. We have about 50% more draft capital this year than last, and it's the most in the last decade or so.

Contrast what we have with say Miami (who lost their first round pick for tampering).

• Round 2, Pick 51
• Round 3, Pick 77
• Round 3, Pick 84 (from NE)
• Round 6, Pick 164 (from CHI)
• Round 7, Pick 216

While the Patriots have:

• Round 1, Pick 14 overall
• Round 2, Pick 46 overall
• Round 3, Pick 76 overall (From CAR)
• Round 4, Pick 104 overall (from LAR)
• Round 4, Pick 114 overall
• Round 6, Pick 170 overall (From LV)
• Round 6, Pick 173 overall (From CAR)
• Round 6, Pick 178 overall

 

[40yrpatsfan]

But they are higher in the round than we are used to as well as 2 picks in the 4th round. We have about 50% more draft capital this year than last, and it's the most in the last decade or so.

Contrast what we have with say Miami (who lost their first round pick for tampering).

• Round 2, Pick 51
• Round 3, Pick 77
• Round 3, Pick 84 (from NE)
• Round 6, Pick 164 (from CHI)
• Round 7, Pick 216

While the Patriots have:

• Round 1, Pick 14 overall
• Round 2, Pick 46 overall
• Round 3, Pick 76 overall (From CAR)
• Round 4, Pick 104 overall (from LAR)
• Round 4, Pick 114 overall

• Round 6, Pick 170 overall (From LV)
• Round 6, Pick 173 overall (From CAR)
• Round 6, Pick 178 overall

You're list is missing the comp picks, so our draft capital is even higher.

In round 4 we have #107, 117, and 135 (135 is a comp pick). In round 6 we pick at #184, 187, and 210, and in round 7 we have #259 (210 & 259 are comp picks).

As you said, all of our picks except the 3 comp picks are mid to high in that round: 14th in R1, 15th in R2, 13th in R3, 5th-15th-33rd in R4, none in R5, 7th-10th-33rd in R6, and 40th in R7.

We don't have a 5th round pick, but we have 3 picks each in the 4th and 6th rounds, including a low 4th and high 6th, so it's really like we have 2 good picks apiece in the 4th-5th-6th rounds. It really shapes up as a fruitful draft, with a lot of ammo in rounds 4-6 to make trades with.

 

[State]

My prediction is Trent Brown stays

Not at $12+ million. He’s a fat and lazy multi millionaire who has lost a step. And his edge.

 

[State]

The problem is your revisionist history.
Stidham didn't earn his way onto the field.

Thank you. It is revisionist history in light of the admission by Cam Newton to not knowing the Patriots playbook. Cam Newton blames himself for lack of NFL job

So we go from Einstein (Brady) to Bart Simpson (Newton). Okay.

There were reports that in his second season Newton was mentored by a rookie in the playbook he had supposedly mastered the year previously. You can’t make this up.

Simply put Bill Belichick had Cam Newton’s back. For reasons that escape all of us. Bill Belichick put all his chips on a QB who hadn’t—and wouldn’t—learn the playbook.

That’s rule 1 for a coach that Belichick violated.

In 2015 Newton was a colossal physical talent. But he’s never been a bright bulb. That’s putting it diplomatically.

Stidham likely should have played for a sputtering Cam at the end of 2020. It was an inept QB we all saw. I hope your fastidiousness will permit my saying that, DaBruinz.

 

[State]

Belichick hiring his cronies to coach novel assignments coming off their disastrous head coaching gambits is the football equivalent of a televangelist like Jimmy Swaggert indulging in the services of prostitutes.

In a perfect world we’d get the “I have sinned” speech by both.

 

[Ollie]

Belichick hiring his cronies to coach novel assignments coming off their disastrous head coaching gambits is the football equivalent of a televangelist like Jimmy Swaggert indulging in the services of prostitutes.

In a perfect world we’d get the “I have sinned” speech by both.

Their record as HC is only relevant if you are hiring them as a HC. Lots of good coaches don't make good Head coaches. The issue was they had no expertise in what they were being asked to do.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Still in absolute terms, it is being overstated. 3 draft picks in first 3 rounds. Late round draft picks have very low hit rate

Agreed, but 6 picks in 4 rounds is not a bad thing.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

But they are higher in the round than we are used to as well as 2 picks in the 4th round. We have about 50% more draft capital this year than last, and it's the most in the last decade or so.

Contrast what we have with say Miami (who lost their first round pick for tampering).

• Round 2, Pick 51
• Round 3, Pick 77
• Round 3, Pick 84 (from NE)
• Round 6, Pick 164 (from CHI)
• Round 7, Pick 216

While the Patriots have:

• Round 1, Pick 14 overall
• Round 2, Pick 46 overall
• Round 3, Pick 76 overall (From CAR)
• Round 4, Pick 104 overall (from LAR)
• Round 4, Pick 114 overall
• Round 6, Pick 170 overall (From LV)
• Round 6, Pick 173 overall (From CAR)
• Round 6, Pick 178 overall

You do not have the comp picks included.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Thank you. It is revisionist history in light of the admission by Cam Newton to not knowing the Patriots playbook. Cam Newton blames himself for lack of NFL job

So we go from Einstein (Brady) to Bart Simpson (Newton). Okay.

There were reports that in his second season Newton was mentored by a rookie in the playbook he had supposedly mastered the year previously. You can’t make this up.

Simply put Bill Belichick had Cam Newton’s back. For reasons that escape all of us. Bill Belichick put all his chips on a QB who hadn’t—and wouldn’t—learn the playbook.

That’s rule 1 for a coach that Belichick violated.

In 2015 Newton was a colossal physical talent. But he’s never been a bright bulb. That’s putting it diplomatically.

Stidham likely should have played for a sputtering Cam at the end of 2020. It was an inept QB we all saw. I hope your fastidiousness will permit my saying that, DaBruinz.

I understand what you are saying, but to claim "BB had Cam's back" when BB released Cam after 1 season is wrong. No-one would say someone "has their back" if they are fired after 1 year.

 

[DaBruinz]

A 4th, 6th and a 7th those are not premium picks. The narrative about how much cap space and draft picks the patriots have this year is BS. They also have a ton of free agents that will be leaving, and a league average qb. Talent wise it would be great to see them swing for the fences just once.
Look how the eagles put their team together

They currently have 60 people signed to the roster..

They have 4 critical free agents. Meyers, Jon Jones, DMac, and Slater. The rest are just pieces that contributed here and there.

What's BS is your understanding of the situation and your attempt to hype the negative. The Pats have "swung for the fences" talent wise on a few occasions. Maybe you're too young to remember.. Or too old. But I remember them Signing Harrison and Colvin. I remember them signing Gilmore. Stop pretending like they don't ever spend money because that's ridiculous.

As for how the Eagles put their team together, most of it was done with their drafting and the occasional FA. But they are shooting their load this year. They have a bunch of MAJOR Free agents. More than the Pats.
Eagles FAs - Epps, Bradberry, Cox, Quinn, Seumalo, Edwards, White, Gardner-Johnson, and Sanders.

They are also 1M over the caps (a pittance I know) with 55 players signed and 28M in dead money. The worst part for them is that they only have 2 players whom they can do the Salary to Bonus conversion in Darius Slay and Lane Johnson. That could net them about $21M in free cap space.
Beyond that, they don't even have a lot of room for cutting players.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

They currently have 60 people signed to the roster..

They have 4 critical free agents. Meyers, Jon Jones, DMac, and Slater. The rest are just pieces that contributed here and there.

What's BS is your understanding of the situation and your attempt to hype the negative. The Pats have "swung for the fences" talent wise on a few occasions. Maybe you're too young to remember.. Or too old. But I remember them Signing Harrison and Colvin. I remember them signing Gilmore. Stop pretending like they don't ever spend money because that's ridiculous.

As for how the Eagles put their team together, most of it was done with their drafting and the occasional FA. But they are shooting their load this year. They have a bunch of MAJOR Free agents. More than the Pats.
Eagles FAs - Epps, Bradberry, Cox, Quinn, Seumalo, Edwards, White, Gardner-Johnson, and Sanders.

They are also 1M over the caps (a pittance I know) with 55 players signed and 28M in dead money. The worst part for them is that they only have 2 players whom they can do the Salary to Bonus conversion in Darius Slay and Lane Johnson. That could net them about $21M in free cap space.
Beyond that, they don't even have a lot of room for cutting players.

I bet the Eagles forum’s angry, amateur know-it-all (but always wrong) guy is also better than you.

 

[Steve102]

If Kraft had a handshake deal with BOB, both sides would follow through. That half of your argument is weak. And Kraft definitely wants to hire an in-house assistant to the HC position that he and Jonathan have worked with and feel they can trust (see Parcells disaster). I am sure that is all true.

Those two clowns in charge trying to change everything does not surprise me. What is surprising, and difficult to understand, is why BB allowed it to happen. That is tough to explain no matter what theory you believe.

I agree with your take, and I have talked about it here before. I think that :

1) there was a handshake deal
2) Bill never thought that they'd (FM/JJ) screw up as bad as they did, which...
3) forced Bill into more hands on with the offense, which...
4) exposed Bill as not that great offensively and...
5) spread him to thin.

It's not that hard to see it; it's one domino falling leading to another. I also believe that point #2 is a big foul up on Bill's part. Biggest of his career