Incredibly early and not relevant 53 man roster

[venecol]

 

[Zuma]

Myers may have had 83 catches last season, but I do not think he was nearly as productive as he should have been. If he was our usual quality slot receiver, we should have seen:

1.) more ability to separate near the goal line.
2.) much more yards after catch.
3.) less need to be schemed to get open.

Maybe we need to let Bourne be the primary slot guy.

I believe Bourne is born to play slot in our system. I happen to believe he would be the top slot WR in the NFL in 2022 if he was there full time. And that's not a knock on Meyers...I think he would be a good Brandon Lloyd type receiver at X. With Parker at Z...IMO this represents the best possible combination for overall WR production.

 

[venecol]

I believe Bourne is born to play slot in our system. I happen to believe he would be the top slot WR in the NFL in 2022 if he was there full time. And that's not a knock on Meyers...I think he would be a good Brandon Lloyd type receiver at X. With Parker at Z...IMO this represents the best possible combination for overall WR production.

Not sure if Bourne will be the top slot receiver but he definitely excelled his 1st year here. I just wonder why he didn't see more snaps.

"The metrics shared by Shook indicate that Bourne reeled in 78.6% of the passes thrown his way, despite the fact that his expected catch rate was 69.6%. That 9% improvement trails only Seattle’s Tyler Lockett (+9.2%), Jacksonville’s Christian Kirk (+9.4%) and Cincinnati’s Tee Higgins (+9.8%).

Bourne was by far New England’s most dynamic playmaker on offense in 2021, amassing 925 total yards while scoring five touchdowns. He led all Patriots with a 19.5% explosive play rate in his first year in New England."

Patriots Receiver Among NFL's Best In Surprising Advanced Metric

Despite their struggles to find consistency in the passing game, the Patriots roster some of the NFL's best hands.

nesn.com

 

[mgteich]

how much should we pay our #4 WR
our #5 (zero is a reasonable answer)

 

[Betterthanmost]

Meyers has still not convinced me. He hardly makes the catches that move the chains, JAG will not be surprised if Nixon makes him the odd man out. Mac and Nixon time together may be creating something most did not see coming.

 

[Betterthanmost]

Duplicate

 

[Kasmir]

Myers may have had 83 catches last season, but I do not think he was nearly as productive as he should have been. If he was our usual quality slot receiver, we should have seen:

1.) more ability to separate near the goal line.
2.) much more yards after catch.
3.) less need to be schemed to get open.

Maybe we need to let Bourne be the primary slot guy.

Agreed. Besides his lack of yack, Meyers getting so few touchdowns implies the defense ignores him unless they're in the red zone, at which point they actually cover and erase him.

 

[captain stone]

Myers may have had 83 catches last season, but I do not think he was nearly as productive as he should have been. If he was our usual quality slot receiver, we should have seen:

1.) more ability to separate near the goal line.
2.) much more yards after catch.
3.) less need to be schemed to get open.

Maybe we need to let Bourne be the primary slot guy.

I believe Bourne is born to play slot in our system. I happen to believe he would be the top slot WR in the NFL in 2022 if he was there full time. And that's not a knock on Meyers...I think he would be a good Brandon Lloyd type receiver at X. With Parker at Z...IMO this represents the best possible combination for overall WR production.

Yeah the best possible use of available resources appears to be Parker & Agholor outside and Bourne in the slot, with Meyers as the top substitute & BoneyT as the understudy/#5... Injuries are practically guaranteed to befall this bunch, so Nixon & Wilkerson aren't to be discounted either and in fact will become the Next Men Up...

 

[ralmat55]

With the off-season workouts over, here’s how I see it:

The real roster is larger than the actual 53 man roster. Vested veterans with minimal salary contracts can be parked on the PS after the final countdown until players inevitably go on IR and open 53 man spots for them.

QB (2) - Jones, Zappe - PS-V (1) Hoyer - By guaranteeing Hoyer’s 2022 salary, the Pats found a way to get around the PS max salary and pay Hoyer as if he’s on the 53. Hoyer’s 2022 cap hit would be roughly the same whether on the 53 or the PS.

RB (5)- D. Harris, Stevenson, White, Strong, K. Harris - PS-V (1) Montgomery

OL (9) - Brown, Strange, Andrews, Onwenu, Herron, Durant, Cajuste, Russey, Desjarlais - PUP- Hines, Stueber- James Ferentz inevitability finds his way to the PS at some point.

Brown’s good health, Onwenu’s versatility and the further development of Herron and Cajuste allows the Pats to trade Wynn for a mid round draft pick and a sizeable chunk of the salary cap space they will need to get through the season.

TE (2) Henry, Smith - Asiasi and/or Keene clear waivers and go on the PS for depth.

WR (5) Meyers, Bourne, Parker, Thornton, Nixon - Wilkerson is a guy I’d also like to see kept.

Nelson Agholor as a good player. But, going on the assumption that the Pats are not SB contenders in 2022, why give Agholor snaps that could otherwise go to young WRs who’ll be on the 2023 team and beyond? Again, trading or releasing Agholor would create another good chunk of cap space.

ST (5) - Folk, Bailey, Cardona, Slater, Bethel - PS-V Cody Davis Cardona could also go on the PS to start the season if they needed another spot on the 53.

DE/Edge (5) - Judon, Trey Flowers, Wise, Perkins, Uche - PS-V Anderson - Some open cap space allows the Pats to finally bring Flowers into the fold.

DT (5) - Barmore, Guy, Godcheaux, Carl Davis, Roberts - Davis is another vested vet who could be released at cutdown to get a player on in-season IR. PUP Cowart

LB (4) - Wilson, McMillan, Bentley, McGrone - PS-V Langhi

CB (6) - Jon Jones, Mills, Butler, Jack Jones, M. Jones, Wade - PS-V Mitchell

S (5) - McCourty, Phillips, Dugger, Peppers, Bledsoe

 

[Toofy]

With the off-season workouts over, here’s how I see it:

The real roster is larger than the actual 53 man roster. Vested veterans with minimal salary contracts can be parked on the PS after the final countdown until players inevitably go on IR and open 53 man spots for them.

QB (2) - Jones, Zappe - PS-V (1) Hoyer - By guaranteeing Hoyer’s 2022 salary, the Pats found a way to get around the PS max salary and pay Hoyer as if he’s on the 53. Hoyer’s 2022 cap hit would be roughly the same whether on the 53 or the PS.

RB (5)- D. Harris, Stevenson, White, Strong, K. Harris - PS-V (1) Montgomery

OL (9) - Brown, Strange, Andrews, Onwenu, Herron, Durant, Cajuste, Russey, Desjarlais - PUP- Hines, Stueber- James Ferentz inevitability finds his way to the PS at some point.

Brown’s good health, Onwenu’s versatility and the further development of Herron and Cajuste allows the Pats to trade Wynn for a mid round draft pick and a sizeable chunk of the salary cap space they will need to get through the season.

TE (2) Henry, Smith - Asiasi and/or Keene clear waivers and go on the PS for depth.

WR (5) Meyers, Bourne, Parker, Thornton, Nixon - Wilkerson is a guy I’d also like to see kept.

Nelson Agholor as a good player. But, going on the assumption that the Pats are not SB contenders in 2022, why give Agholor snaps that could otherwise go to young WRs who’ll be on the 2023 team and beyond? Again, trading or releasing Agholor would create another good chunk of cap space.

ST (5) - Folk, Bailey, Cardona, Slater, Bethel - PS-V Cody Davis Cardona could also go on the PS to start the season if they needed another spot on the 53.

DE/Edge (5) - Judon, Trey Flowers, Wise, Perkins, Uche - PS-V Anderson - Some open cap space allows the Pats to finally bring Flowers into the fold.

DT (5) - Barmore, Guy, Godcheaux, Carl Davis, Roberts - Davis is another vested vet who could be released at cutdown to get a player on in-season IR. PUP Cowart

LB (4) - Wilson, McMillan, Bentley, McGrone - PS-V Langhi

CB (6) - Jon Jones, Mills, Butler, Jack Jones, M. Jones, Wade - PS-V Mitchell

S (5) - McCourty, Phillips, Dugger, Peppers, Bledsoe

Doubtful that they will trade agholor . We will need to probably eat 8- 10 million of cap space and get a 6tg rounder if we trade agholor. So most likely we keep him and hope he performs.

 

[venecol]

With the off-season workouts over, here’s how I see it:

The real roster is larger than the actual 53 man roster. Vested veterans with minimal salary contracts can be parked on the PS after the final countdown until players inevitably go on IR and open 53 man spots for them.

QB (2) - Jones, Zappe - PS-V (1) Hoyer - By guaranteeing Hoyer’s 2022 salary, the Pats found a way to get around the PS max salary and pay Hoyer as if he’s on the 53. Hoyer’s 2022 cap hit would be roughly the same whether on the 53 or the PS.

RB (5)- D. Harris, Stevenson, White, Strong, K. Harris - PS-V (1) Montgomery

OL (9) - Brown, Strange, Andrews, Onwenu, Herron, Durant, Cajuste, Russey, Desjarlais - PUP- Hines, Stueber- James Ferentz inevitability finds his way to the PS at some point.

Brown’s good health, Onwenu’s versatility and the further development of Herron and Cajuste allows the Pats to trade Wynn for a mid round draft pick and a sizeable chunk of the salary cap space they will need to get through the season.

TE (2) Henry, Smith - Asiasi and/or Keene clear waivers and go on the PS for depth.

WR (5) Meyers, Bourne, Parker, Thornton, Nixon - Wilkerson is a guy I’d also like to see kept.

Nelson Agholor as a good player. But, going on the assumption that the Pats are not SB contenders in 2022, why give Agholor snaps that could otherwise go to young WRs who’ll be on the 2023 team and beyond? Again, trading or releasing Agholor would create another good chunk of cap space.

ST (5) - Folk, Bailey, Cardona, Slater, Bethel - PS-V Cody Davis Cardona could also go on the PS to start the season if they needed another spot on the 53.

DE/Edge (5) - Judon, Trey Flowers, Wise, Perkins, Uche - PS-V Anderson - Some open cap space allows the Pats to finally bring Flowers into the fold.

DT (5) - Barmore, Guy, Godcheaux, Carl Davis, Roberts - Davis is another vested vet who could be released at cutdown to get a player on in-season IR. PUP Cowart

LB (4) - Wilson, McMillan, Bentley, McGrone - PS-V Langhi

CB (6) - Jon Jones, Mills, Butler, Jack Jones, M. Jones, Wade - PS-V Mitchell

S (5) - McCourty, Phillips, Dugger, Peppers, Bledsoe

I think there's a limit on how many vets can be in the PS. Four?

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Doubtful that they will trade agholor . We will need to probably eat 8- 10 million of cap space and get a 6tg rounder if we trade agholor. So most likely we keep him and hope he performs.

I feel like Meyers could be the trade candidate.
Just due to Pats feeling like they could get a more explosive player on the field in his place.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I feel like Meyers could be the trade candidate.
Just due to Pats feeling like they could get a more explosive player on the field in his place.

I wouldn't be shocked if he's traded ONLY if someone such as Thornton, Nixon, etc. shows something in training camp/pre season. However, because Parker's injury history, I wouldn't want to trade him prematurely and then get into a 2019 situation trading Demariyous Thomas.

 

[holyredeemer]

Meyers has still not convinced me. He hardly makes the catches that move the chains, JAG will not be surprised if Nixon makes him the odd man out. Mac and Nixon time together may be creating something most did not see coming.

Over 60% of his catches were for a 1st down.

 

[holyredeemer]

I wouldn't be shocked if he's traded ONLY if someone such as Thornton, Nixon, etc. shows something in training camp/pre season. However, because Parker's injury history, I wouldn't want to trade him prematurely and then get into a 2019 situation trading Demariyous Thomas.

I could see him being traded just for the fact that he might try to prove himself out of what he is actually worth. I can’t blame him. It’s not like he’s been making N’keal Harry money since he was drafted. He’s not a big playmaker/YAC kinda guy. He hasn’t developed into a threat in the RZ. A solid receiver that every team should have at least one of on their roster. What are those guys making across the league now though?

 

[Betterthanmost]

Over 60% of his catches were for a 1st down.

This stats is not true. He was no where near 60%? I will have noticed. He was probably at 50%. For a slot WR, catching about 65% of targets is not good enough.

 

[venecol]

Meyers was 7 of 16 on 20+ yard completions.
Agholor was 4 of 17 w/ 2 INT.

If they're trading anyone it should be Agholor since it provides more cap space and Parker replaces him anyway.

 

[holyredeemer]

This stats is not true. He was no where near 60%? I will have noticed. He was probably at 50%. For a slot WR, catching about 65% of targets is not good enough.

You’re correct, it was 50% You’re being a bit dramatic though. Being only 8 1st downs away isn’t nowhere near, and had he made those measly 8 more 1st downs you would have reallly noticed? C’mon. He was the most dependable target for a rookie qb last year.

 

[captain stone]

The real roster is larger than the actual 53 man roster. Vested veterans with minimal salary contracts can be parked on the PS after the final countdown until players inevitably go on IR and open 53 man spots for them.

RB (5)- D. Harris, Stevenson, White, Strong, K. Harris - PS-V (1) Montgomery

I also hope that SweetFeet's good to go for Week 1... But don't be surprised if he's placed on Reserve/PUP to start the season...

OL (9) - Brown, Strange, Andrews, Onwenu, Herron, Durant, Cajuste, Russey, Desjarlais - PUP- Hines, Stueber- James Ferentz inevitability finds his way to the PS at some point.

Brown’s good health, Onwenu’s versatility and the further development of Herron and Cajuste allows the Pats to trade Wynn for a mid round draft pick and a sizeable chunk of the salary cap space they will need to get through the season.

I'm not opposed to dealing Wynn/Lose for cap relief/draft picks, in theory... But... Those next 5 guys collectively scare the crap outta me... Herron's the living embodiment of Replaceable, Russey & Desjarlais are unknown & unproven, and Yesir C'mon in Durant's not even an NFL player.

TE (2) Henry, Smith - Asiasi and/or Keene clear waivers and go on the PS for depth.

I still think one of those two makes the 53...

WR (5) Meyers, Bourne, Parker, Thornton, Nixon - Wilkerson is a guy I’d also like to see kept.

Nelson Agholor as a good player. But, going on the assumption that the Pats are not SB contenders in 2022, why give Agholor snaps that could otherwise go to young WRs who’ll be on the 2023 team and beyond? Again, trading or releasing Agholor would create another good chunk of cap space.

Agreed... If anybody's to be dealt for relief/picks, he is...

DT (5) - Barmore, Guy, Godcheaux, Carl Davis, Roberts - Davis is another vested vet who could be released at cutdown to get a player on in-season IR. PUP Cowart

Our DTs as a group might be the Worst in the Entire league, and Bill did absolutely ****ing Nothing to try to fix it... Inexcusable.

LB (4) - Wilson, McMillan, Bentley, McGrone - PS-V Langhi

Don't know if all 4 are kept, even if they're all healthy...

CB (6) - Jon Jones, Mills, Butler, Jack Jones, M. Jones, Wade - PS-V Mitchell

Marcus Jones still might start the season on Reserve/PUP although he was a (limited) participant in OTAs last week, same as White...

S (5) - McCourty, Phillips, Dugger, Peppers, Bledsoe

Bedsore sucks. No reason whatsoever to keep him on the 53.

 

[mgteich]

With the off-season workouts over, here’s how I see it:

The real roster is larger than the actual 53 man roster. Vested veterans with minimal salary contracts can be parked on the PS after the final countdown until players inevitably go on IR and open 53 man spots for them.

Let me see if I understand your position.

1) We wait until after the cut to 53 and guarantee the salary of the veteran for the year.

2) We cut the player expecting no one to pick him up, and he passes waivers.

3) We sign the player to the Practice Squad, so now he has ADDITIONAL compensation of Practice Squad pay.

4) During the season, we move him up to the 53 one to four times and pay him minimum for that week.
===================
A) If no one else wants the player after we cut him, this is fine with the player. Essentially, he gets a bonus each week that he is on the 53 man squad.

B) Of course, any team could sign him at any time and pay him by the week. If a team needed him to play for 4 weeks, he would get a bonus from them that would cover the 4 weeks. It seems unlikely that this is sooo bad that he couldn't sign a contract other teams that would get him more than the limit of Practice Squad moves to the patriot roster. I suppose this would work for Ferentz, although even he might find a team to pay him for a couple of weeks.