Incognito suspended indefinitely by Dolphins

[Kontradiction]

If you can find it on a replay, go listen to Chris Carter talking about the situation. It's from Sportscenter this morning, and it backs up the "culture" issue about the dreaded 'n' word, just as we've been saying.

I've read some of the transcript. I'll have to listen to it in my car on the drive home since I've got this forum up at work already and don't want to push it with anything else.

 

[condon84]

That article was weird. Incognito was viewed as "more black" than Martin?

According to that article.

I can see how something like that would happen. I have been around African Americans who have made similar comments about certain caucasians being more "black" than actual African Americans.

 

[shmessy]

According to that article.

I can see how something like that would happen. I have been around African Americans who have made similar comments about certain caucasians being more "black" than actual African Americans.

Many see the "half" part of the term in the voicemail as the more incendiary than the "n****" part. Ask anyone of mixed parentage. They get racism from all sides and it is a term meant to isolate and nullify a person as some kind of "half breed". It's incidious by all sides.

That aside, I understand that Cris Carter and Tom Jackson focused mainly on racism Monday night and Carter is writing about it again today, but the racism question is only a part of the larger extortion/workplace intimidation question in this situation.

 

[groganbootleg]

There is a video. I consider that a fact.

whoa whoa whoa. There is a video of him using the word while Pouncey is in the room. Does the video show Pouncey saying, "Hey Richie, keep calling me a Ni@@er, I love it." Or does it show a guy nervously laughing? Its entirely conceivable that Pouncey is nervously laughing because RI is a **** and he doesn't want to antagonize him any further. Why poke the bear when you can laugh and then go about the rest of your day. You made an assumption based on a video. You can't know for a fact that Pouncey is OK with RI using that word towards his black teammates.

 

[Ring 6]

whoa whoa whoa. There is a video of him using the word while Pouncey is in the room. Does the video show Pouncey saying, "Hey Richie, keep calling me a Ni@@er, I love it." Or does it show a guy nervously laughing? Its entirely conceivable that Pouncey is nervously laughing because RI is a **** and he doesn't want to antagonize him any further. Why poke the bear when you can laugh and then go about the rest of your day. You made an assumption based on a video. You can't know for a fact that Pouncey is OK with RI using that word towards his black teammates.

Right, that is why Pouncey has said he does not consider Incognito a racist.
If Pouncey laughing when RI calls him the N word is not enough proof for that point, then nothing in this case has come close to being proven.

 

[shmessy]

Right, that is why Pouncey has said he does not consider Incognito a racist.
If Pouncey laughing when RI calls him the N word is not enough proof for that point, then nothing in this case has come close to being proven.

Other than:

1) The transcript of the voicemail

and

2) that (after hearing the voicemail and seeing other evidence) the Dolphins suspended Richie Incognito indefinitely while not suspending Jonathan Martin.

Players don't get suspended for doing the RIGHT thing. He did wrong. How much wrong is to be determined - - which is why the suspension is indefinite.

 

[groganbootleg]

Right, that is why Pouncey has said he does not consider Incognito a racist.
If Pouncey laughing when RI calls him the N word is not enough proof for that point, then nothing in this case has come close to being proven.

OK, I got it now. What you consider to be proof is ironclad and anything you don't consider to be proof is suspect. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Ring 6]

Other than:

1) The transcript of the voicemail

Not really because the standard of proof of not believing Pouncey was OK with it based upon his actual reaction because maybe he felt one thing and did another would mean that the transcript is not evidence because maybe it was a joke, maybe it was someone impersonating Incoginito, maybe Incognito had a gun to his head and was forced to do so.
All are of the same realm.

and

2) that (after hearing the voicemail and seeing other evidence) the Dolphins suspended Richie Incognito indefinitely while not suspending Jonathan Martin.

No, because again, that standard says that reaction to an event or action is subject to being phony. In that regard, maybe the Dolphins suspended him because they told him to do it and want to make him the fall guy.

Players don't get suspended for doing the RIGHT thing. He did wrong. How much wrong is to be determined - - which is why the suspension is indefinite.

Nothing to do with the point that you were responding to.

However, your argument seems to be that the dysfunctional Dolphin front office has handled everything horribly, except that since they suspended him, that had to be the right move and proves he is guilty.
Yes, people do get suspended even when they haven't acted in a suspendable fashion,because A PERSON makes the decision, and it could be the wrong one.

 

[Ring 6]

OK, I got it now. What you consider to be proof is ironclad and anything you don't consider to be proof is suspect. Thanks for clearing that up.

Not at all.
I'm saying the standard needs to be reasonable.
Saying the call was offensive to the player without knowing the context of the relationship and the nature of their conversations is setting the standard incredible low.
Saying that seeing someone react to a purporeted racial slur without issue and then having them publicly state they do not consider the person a racist meets a very reasonable standard of believability.

 

[Ring 6]

OK, I got it now. What you consider to be proof is ironclad and anything you don't consider to be proof is suspect. Thanks for clearing that up.

But lets clarify.
Is it your position that Pounceys reaction--laughing with Incognito--is more likely to prove that he considers Incognito a racist than the he considers Incognito his 'boy' and takes no offense to what another A-A player would call him routinely because of their closeness?
Is it your position that when Pouncey said "I don't consider RI a racist" that he was lying?

 

[Gronkandez]

whoa whoa whoa. There is a video of him using the word while Pouncey is in the room. Does the video show Pouncey saying, "Hey Richie, keep calling me a Ni@@er, I love it." Or does it show a guy nervously laughing? Its entirely conceivable that Pouncey is nervously laughing because RI is a **** and he doesn't want to antagonize him any further. Why poke the bear when you can laugh and then go about the rest of your day. You made an assumption based on a video. You can't know for a fact that Pouncey is OK with RI using that word towards his black teammates.

Read my prior post bro

Pouncey, who has been teammates with Incognito for parts of three seasons, and Wallace, in his first year with the Dolphins, told Carter that they do not believe Incognito is a racist.

 

[Ring 6]

OK, I got it now. What you consider to be proof is ironclad and anything you don't consider to be proof is suspect. Thanks for clearing that up.

And by the way of course what I consider meeting the standard of being a fact I consider a fact, and what doesn't meet the standard I do not. That makes me like every other person in the world.
I'm sorry if you either don't like those facts or want to create a ridiculous standard.
If I say today is Wednesday and you say today is purple you may well consider your comment a fact and mine an opinion, but I would still be correct in believing mine is fact and yours is not. Its pretty much what happened here.

 

[Kontradiction]

whoa whoa whoa. There is a video of him using the word while Pouncey is in the room. Does the video show Pouncey saying, "Hey Richie, keep calling me a Ni@@er, I love it." Or does it show a guy nervously laughing? Its entirely conceivable that Pouncey is nervously laughing because RI is a **** and he doesn't want to antagonize him any further. Why poke the bear when you can laugh and then go about the rest of your day. You made an assumption based on a video. You can't know for a fact that Pouncey is OK with RI using that word towards his black teammates.

You realize that you're reaching badly here, right?

 

[Songin]

Coaches possibly putting Incognito up to it, eh? ....


Jonathan Martin's lawyer: *Coach Philbin, did you order the Code Red?*
Roger Goodell: You *don't* have to answer that question!
Philbin: I'll answer the question!

[to Martin's lawyer]

Philbin: You want answers?
Martin's lawyer: I think I'm entitled to.
Philbin: *You want answers?*
Martins's lawyer: *I want the truth!*
Philbin: *You can't handle the truth!!*

[pauses]

Philbin: Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with large biceps. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Ed Hochuli? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Jonathan Martin and and you curse the Dolphins. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Martin's hazing and extortion, while tragic, probably won a few football games. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, won a few football games as well.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending someting in cute teal and orange uniforms with a fish decal. You use them as a punchline.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under a green Jets blanket that makes fun of the awesomely bad Gloria Estefan-led entertainment that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way.....Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a set of shoulder pads, and get in a 1-on-1 drill. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

Martin's lawyer: Did you order the Code Red?
Philbin: I did the job I....
Martin's lawyer: *Did you order the Code Red?*
Philbin: *You're Goddam right I did!!*


--------------------------------------------

 

[shmessy]

No offense, Songin, but you're about the 7th person to do that in this thread.

Not that it isn't humorous or anything.......

 

[Songin]

No offense, Songin, but you're about the 7th person to do that in this thread.

Not that it isn't humorous or anything.......

No offense taken shmessy--my mistake.

I came to this thread "late" and didn't read the previous iterations.

My apologies to you et al here.

 

[mosi]

What??????

Not....sure....if....serious.....

No really. So he called him the N-word. Big deal. So he said he was going to kill him and fck his mother. So what. That is the whole point. The coaches wanted to bring out the animal in Martin. Instead the coaches got the wrong result. Martin coward away.

Heck, if this was a black coach and not Icognito - (who I like calling Ignacion) this would get no play. Heck, if this is bad, what coaches do to players is bullying! Me thinks that if Bear Bryant was alive today, he would make Ignacion look like a fricken girl scout.

The big thing that no one is talking about is if Martin is gay. And importantly, was he targeted because of it. If that is the case, there could be something to talk about. Otherwise, it is a guy who was not cut out for the NFL and left. End of story.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

No really. So he called him the N-word. Big deal. So he said he was going to kill him and fck his mother. So what. That is the whole point. The coaches wanted to bring out the animal in Martin. Instead the coaches got the wrong result. Martin coward away.

Heck, if this was a black coach and not Icognito - (who I like calling Ignacion) this would get no play. Heck, if this is bad, what coaches do to players is bullying! Me thinks that if Bear Bryant was alive today, he would make Ignacion look like a fricken girl scout.

The big thing that no one is talking about is if Martin is gay. And importantly, was he targeted because of it. If that is the case, there could be something to talk about. Otherwise, it is a guy who was not cut out for the NFL and left. End of story.

And that would change things . . . how, exactly?

 

[shmessy]

No offense taken shmessy--my mistake.

I came to this thread "late" and didn't read the previous iterations.

My apologies to you et al here.

No prob, it's all good.

 

[shmessy]

No really. So he called him the N-word. Big deal. So he said he was going to kill him and fck his mother. So what. That is the whole point. The coaches wanted to bring out the animal in Martin. Instead the coaches got the wrong result. Martin coward away.

Heck, if this was a black coach and not Icognito - (who I like calling Ignacion) this would get no play. Heck, if this is bad, what coaches do to players is bullying! Me thinks that if Bear Bryant was alive today, he would make Ignacion look like a fricken girl scout.

The big thing that no one is talking about is if Martin is gay. And importantly, was he targeted because of it. If that is the case, there could be something to talk about. Otherwise, it is a guy who was not cut out for the NFL and left. End of story.

Holy crap, you WERE serious!

Hey, Mosi - - the Dolphins play in Miami......Miami is not far from Cuba........hey!....send Martin to Gitmo to "toughen him up"!