Im a big no on lamar jackson...

[Wozzy]

Thru 2006 yes, after not so much, that is in large part why BB went after Moss and Welker

The other point for all: using career QB Rating is also wrong when using guys that played into their decline. Take the years Jackson has played and look at the guys active who have QB Ratings in the same or better range in the same amount of years.

The current love affair with running QB's is as usual an over reaction. Bobby Douglas, Vick, and even Grogan isn't the way. The way is a Steve Young type that is accurate, killer arm, very dangerous running but, tuck it an go 2-4 times a game when nobody is open and there is a way forward to get yardage and a place to slide. Jackson will be long gone at year 20, 15, and my bet: 10 or less as a major force. If BB drafted him great, but he didn't best case is maybe get the value back it takes to get him/pay for him. I rate that as < 10%.

How about his peers, players playing right now where all things are equal? No, Crawdaddy doesn’t want to do that because it will highlight just how ordinary his passing stats are.

If you compare his playoff stats to anyone, it will highlight just how poorly he plays against good playoff defenses. He’s been dreadful.

Odd how often Crawdaddy preaches how important QB’s are and they’re the reason for the rings, but how he ignore how abysmal Lamar has been in the postseason. Laughable…

 

[crawhammer]

I’ve said this ^ multiple times now. And again, it’s funny how you keep reverting back to comparing Lamar to Mac, a young developing QB on a rebuilding team, instead of comparing him to his peers who he wants to be paid like… the best in the league.

I compared him to a 4x NFL MVP.

I don’t care about rushing because that doesn’t help them in the playoffs. In the playoffs, defenses force him to pass from the pocket and he can’t.

He's rushed for 92 yards per playoff game, which is the most ever by a QB in the history of the league, it's also 46% higher than his regular season Y/G. So if, as you claim, defenses "are forcing him to pass from the pocket" in the postseason then he's really stepping up his running game in the postseason. Nice point by you.

 

[Wozzy]

I compared him to a 4x NFL MVP.

Why not compare him to Knute Rockne?

We don't have to compare him to players from different eras, compare his passing stats to his peers right now, he isn't good.

if he was a good passer they would let him pass, not protect him from himself by limiting his passes.

He's rushed for 92 yards per playoff game, which is the most ever by a QB in the history of the league, it's also 46% higher than his regular season Y/G. So if, as you claim, defenses "are forcing him to pass from the pocket" in the postseason then he's really stepping up his running game in the postseason. Nice point by you.

He also fumbled 5 times in four playoff games, threw 5 interceptions, completed 56% of his passes at a measly 6.6 yards per attempt.

Dreadful...

 

[Drunken Cicerone]

Patriots are going to have to spend on a QB eventually. If I want terrified of Lamar Jackson’s legs being sawdust and him missing the post season every other year I’d say this is a no brainer. But alas that’s a problem otherwise the guys worth being the highest paid QB in the league

Mac Jones is never going to be a great QB. I’m not even sure he’ll be a good QB. Imagine his ceiling is Ryan Tannehill, cool the Pats can hope to make the playoffs the next three years with him as their underperforming QB.

Here’s to hoping for 2027 !

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Patriots are going to have to spend on a QB eventually. If I want terrified of Lamar Jackson’s legs being sawdust and him missing the post season every other year I’d say this is a no brainer. But alas that’s a problem otherwise the guys worth being the highest paid QB in the league

Mac Jones is never going to be a great QB. I’m not even sure he’ll be a good QB. Imagine his ceiling is Ryan Tannehill, cool the Pats can hope to make the playoffs the next three years with him as their underperforming QB.

Here’s to hoping for 2027 !

mac jones now offically has bigger hate then tony eason ever did..... u guys will be eating words next offseason when lamar is hurt and mac is in the pro bowl with a playoff birth

 

[crawhammer]

Why not compare him to Knute Rockne?

I'm pretty sure I've compared him now in one way or another to everyone of his contemporaries and then some. You reject any comparison that puts Lamar in a favorable light. So what's the point.

if he was a good passer they would let him pass, not protect him from himself by limiting his passes.

Any OC that didn't have a bunch of running plays for Lamar in every single game would be fired. Because he's the best running QB in the league and arguably the best running QB ever. And Lamar "sucks so bad at passing" that he's 3rd among active QBs in TD% (behind only Mahomes and Rodgers). But as we've come to understand, you don't like TDs, because passing yards are more important.

He also fumbled 5 times in four playoff games

2. He has 2 lost fumbles in the postseason. What next? You're going to tell me about all of the INTs he almost threw.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Ted Johnson doing his show prep:

who axed ya anyway

 

[Wozzy]

I'm pretty sure I've compared him now in one way or another to everyone of his contemporaries and then some. You reject any comparison that puts Lamar in a favorable light. So what's the point.

No, I don't reject it. You tell us the only passing stats that matter are the ones that don't include volume of passes. That means attempts, completions, yards... you also ignore his horrid play in the playoffs which speaks volumes about why passing matters more than running in the playoffs. In short, you ignore what can't be dismissed... so what's the point.

Any OC that didn't have a bunch of running plays for Lamar in every single game would be fired. Because he's the best running QB in the league and arguably the best running QB ever. And Lamar "sucks so bad at passing" that he's 3rd among active QBs in TD% (behind only Mahomes and Rodgers). But as we've come to understand, you don't like TDs, because passing yards are more important.

Passing is the job.

Getting down into the red zone against the dregs of the NFL in the regular season and throwing TD's to wide open TE's is not helping him in the postseason. I'm all about winning in the postseason, that matters to me.

2. He has 2 lost fumbles in the postseason. What next? You're going to tell me about all of the INTs he almost threw.

He's 1-4, he's thrown 5 interceptions and completed 56% of his passes at a measly 6.6 yards per attempt... yeah, results matter.

 

[duc359]

Patriots are going to have to spend on a QB eventually. If I want terrified of Lamar Jackson’s legs being sawdust and him missing the post season every other year I’d say this is a no brainer. But alas that’s a problem otherwise the guys worth being the highest paid QB in the league

Mac Jones is never going to be a great QB. I’m not even sure he’ll be a good QB. Imagine his ceiling is Ryan Tannehill, cool the Pats can hope to make the playoffs the next three years with him as their underperforming QB.

Here’s to hoping for 2027 !

why 3 years? If everything is set up to cater to him and the injuries are average or below on offense, then he should be expected to be the 7-10th best QB in the AFC, and compared to the NFC slot in around 5-8th. If he cannot do that, time to locate a guy to draft in '24 or worst case '25.
Mac was recently rated as the 10th best QB in terms of value. If he goes to $30M+ a year and posts numbers like last year he'd be about 29th, and head for back-upville the rest of his career.

Honestly unless you have a Mahomes, Burrow, Allen type guy - why pay? Carr isn't going to win a SB, what a dumb contract. If Mac is tier above Carr, and doesn't dive after every last dollar maybe he is a keeper. If not, get used to QB roulette. Build the team to be like the 49'ers and give the QB when a second contract if he's the real deal.

Mac is a question, and the answer is speculation now, should not be 10 months from now. Far more prudent to wait then throw the team away for one guy - in the next 10 months. Is the concept of patience really dead guys?

 

[Wozzy]

why 3 years? If everything is set up to cater to him and the injuries are average or below on offense, then he should be expected to be the 7-10th best QB in the AFC, and compared to the NFC slot in around 5-8th. If he cannot do that, time to locate a guy to draft in '24 or worst case '25.
Mac was recently rated as the 10th best QB in terms of value. If he goes to $30M+ a year and posts numbers like last year he'd be about 29th, and head for back-upville the rest of his career.

Honestly unless you have a Mahomes, Burrow, Allen type guy - why pay? Carr isn't going to win a SB, what a dumb contract. If Mac is tier above Carr, and doesn't dive after every last dollar maybe he is a keeper. If not, get used to QB roulette. Build the team to be like the 49'ers and give the QB when a second contract if he's the real deal.

Mac is a question, and the answer is speculation now, should not be 10 months from now. Far more prudent to wait then throw the team away for one guy - in the next 10 months. Is the concept of patience really dead guys?

Can we agree Mac is probably closer to 2021 Mac than 2022 Mac?

Can we also agree with Obie, another year in the NFL, another year of strength and conditioning Mac is probably better than he was in 2021?

Can we also agree Zappe is hot on his heels and possibly better if 2022 was any indicator and Zappe will also be better with all of the same conditions that have improved in 2023?

2022 is a throwaway year for me, everybody returning on the offense gets a mulligan. The linemen, the weapons, the QB's... that was a disaster last season.

Obie is good at his job, it will look completely different this season health provided.

 

[duc359]

How about his peers, players playing right now where all things are equal? No, Crawdaddy doesn’t want to do that because it will highlight just how ordinary his passing stats are.

If you compare his playoff stats to anyone, it will highlight just how poorly he plays against good playoff defenses. He’s been dreadful.

Odd how often Crawdaddy preaches how important QB’s are and they’re the reason for the rings, but how he ignore how abysmal Lamar has been in the postseason. Laughable…

I'm on your side. Anything before 2007 really cannot be counted. Matt Ryan's counting stats if you look at them make u think likely HOF. But we did look at him. Look at Football-Reference: #1 comp to Ryan: #1 Marino #2 Elway. Ryan couldn't hold either ones dirty laundry. Jackson at peak is certainly better than Ryan but he'll never reach Ryans throwing counting stats. TD=381 Yds=62792. Jackson's peak year was in 2019. His sack rate was 5.4% that year. Since then: 7.2, 9.0, 7.4; Rushing yards that year per game: 80.4. Since: 67.0, 63.9, 63.7 - looks like decline to me.

I'm out. BB would never make such a foolish move.

 

[Joker]

mac jones now offically has bigger hate then tony eason ever did..... u guys will be eating words next offseason when lamar is hurt and mac is in the pro bowl with a playoff birth

more hated than Eason? this is NOT possible. When Mac curls up in a ball clutching his munt in fear at midfield in a Super Bowl...THEN and only then will he usurp Champagne Tony...maybe..

 

[Pats1971]

mac jones now offically has bigger hate then tony eason ever did..... u guys will be eating words next offseason when lamar is hurt and mac is in the pro bowl with a playoff birth

With the QB's that are in the AFC, there is zero chance Mac is a pro bowl Qb unless 10 of them drop out and he gets put in so they can field a team.

 

[Pats1971]

Can we agree Mac is probably closer to 2021 Mac than 2022 Mac?

Can we also agree with Obie, another year in the NFL, another year of strength and conditioning Mac is probably better than he was in 2021?

Can we also agree Zappe is hot on his heels and possibly better if 2022 was any indicator and Zappe will also be better with all of the same conditions that have improved in 2023?

2022 is a throwaway year for me, everybody returning on the offense gets a mulligan. The linemen, the weapons, the QB's... that was a disaster last season.

Obie is good at his job, it will look completely different this season health provided.

How would we know that Mac is closer to anything? They have not played.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Good player, yes. Good QB...maybe so. But he is also starting to break down. The windows are getting tighter. He's like an 8th year RB more than a 6th year QB. Again, unlike a RB, he can't take plays off for his body to recuperate even the tiniest bit like a RB can.

 

[PScottman]

I really don't get the Lamar hate

Is the definition of hate not thinking that the utilization of assets required to procure him for potential outcomes desired isn't in the patriots favor? That's an awfully strange definition but seems to be what the pro-get LJ at any cost field thinks.

I think many would absolutely jump on taking LJ and upgrading massively over Mac Jones if the "costs" were more reasonable - even up to a more "normal" top five QB contract.

For me, that's the sticking point - the massive guarantees that then demand absolute "must win" drafting and free agency over the term of that deal when reality is more around the 40-50% win (free agency) and 10-20% win draft outcomes for all NFL teams.

 

[RobertWeathers]

more hated than Eason? this is NOT possible. When Mac curls up in a ball clutching his munt in fear at midfield in a Super Bowl...THEN and only then will he usurp Champagne Tony...maybe..

Eason hate was up and down. It was year by year and game by game.

 

[Fatmancryin]

This Jackson situation is bizarre

 

[TheRainMaker]

Who the fuk is Ken Francis?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

lol