Im a big no on lamar jackson...

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Who the fuk is Ken Francis?

 

[Kasmir]

2. He has 2 lost fumbles in the postseason. What next? You're going to tell me about all of the INTs he almost threw.

Who recovers a fumble is basically random. The predictive stat is fumbles. That said, no case had been presented here as to whether he is more or less likely than average to fumble the ball when he carries it.

 

[Tunescribe]

 

[Joker]

Urkel Jackson?

 

[Wozzy]

How would we know that Mac is closer to anything? They have not played.

Patricia was a dumpster fire, that's how we know. They went from 6th in scoring to 25th.

 

[crawhammer]

Passing is the job.

Yes, if you're a quarterback who can't the run effectively, then passing is the only job by virtue of your limitations. Lamar can run, and run very effectively, so running is a major part of his job, which is why there are a bunch of QB running plays incorporated into their offense. Same with Fields, Hurts, Allen, Daniel Jones, etc.

How do you think Hurts received NFL MVP consideration? From his 3701 passing yards? And 22 passing TDs? No, a major factor was the running component of his game... 760 rushing yards and 13 rushing TDs.

Why do you think Allen is considered a top 3 NFL QB? Because of his 92.2 career passer rating? No, it's because he also has over 3000 career rushing yards, 230 career rushing 1st downs, and 38 career rushing TDs.

Why the excitement about Fields in Chicago? His 152 passing yards per game? No, it's because he's the most electric running QB to enter the league since Lamar Jackson. (And he has untapped potential as a passer because his receivers have been well below average.)

Lamar's job is to be a great football player who can help his team win games. He's excelled as a passer at times, also with below average receivers, and he's probably the best running QB the league has ever seen. He's 37-12 as a starter, which is a very impressive winning percentage of 75%, while his team has been complete garbage without him (8-13). Lamar's doing his job and doing it well.

You apparently just don't understand what a running QB (or dual-threat QB) is.

 

[crawhammer]

Can we agree Mac is probably closer to 2021 Mac than 2022 Mac?

Which 2021 Mac are you referring to?

Weeks 1-6 (2-4 record): 7 TDs & 5 INTs
Weeks 7-12 (6-0 record): 9 TDs & 2 INTs
Weeks 13-18 (2-4 record): 8 TDs & 7 INTs

I'll point out too that the 6-0 stretch was aided by the defense allowing only 10.5 P/G and a 25-point per game margin of victory (so not many pressure packed moments).

 

[Wozzy]

Yes, if you're a quarterback who can't the run effectively, then passing is the only job by virtue of your limitations. Lamar can run, and run very effectively, so running is a major part of his job, which is why there are a bunch of QB running plays incorporated into their offense. Same with Fields, Hurts, Allen, Daniel Jones, etc.

Wrong... if Brady is the greatest in history and won in 2020, if Stafford won in 2021, if Mahomes won in 2022 then passing is the job. Running doesn't matter that much.

How do you think Hurts received NFL MVP consideration? From his 3701 passing yards? And 22 passing TDs? No, a major factor was the running component of his game... 760 rushing yards and 13 rushing TDs.

Why do you think Allen is considered a top 3 NFL QB? Because of his 92.2 career passer rating? No, it's because he also has over 3000 career rushing yards, 230 career rushing 1st downs, and 38 career rushing TDs.

Why the excitement about Fields in Chicago? His 152 passing yards per game? No, it's because he's the most electric running QB to enter the league since Lamar Jackson. (And he has untapped potential as a passer because his receivers have been well below average.)

Lamar's job is to be a great football player who can help his team win games. He's excelled as a passer at times, also with below average receivers, and he's probably the best running QB the league has ever seen. He's 37-12 as a starter, which is a very impressive winning percentage of 75%, while his team has been complete garbage without him (8-13). Lamar's doing his job and doing it well.

You apparently just don't understand what a running QB (or dual-threat QB) is.

If running mattered that much, Lamar would have won when he had a top ten defense and a good offense around him.

Hurts can pass, he was accurate as a collegian and improved as a pro, Josh Allen improved at passing over three years, Daniels Jones is barely serviceable and only looked good this year for the same reason Lamar has looked good in spots... scheme and coaching.

 

[Wozzy]

Which 2021 Mac are you referring to?

Weeks 1-6 (2-4 record): 7 TDs & 5 INTs
Weeks 7-12 (6-0 record): 9 TDs & 2 INTs
Weeks 13-18 (2-4 record): 8 TDs & 7 INTs

I'll point out too that the 6-0 stretch was aided by the defense allowing only 10.5 P/G and a 25-point per game margin of victory (so not many pressure packed moments).

Why are you so focused on Mac on a Lamar thread?

Why won't you compare Lamar to his peers?

Mac was a doughy rookie in 2021, he lost steam as the season went on like many rookies do. His body of work going back to college paints a picture of an accurate passer and decision maker. Mac has to prove himself going forward, we don't know what he is.

We know what Lamar is at this point, he is exactly what I said he was before the 2018 draft.

"I think he could "appear" really good, he could look like young Michael Vick... and just like Vick he will be fool's gold. He will win some regular season games but unless he has the perfect situation around him won't sniff the Super Bowl. You have to be able to pass accurately to beat NFL caliber playoff defenses... passing is important." - Wozzy, Apr 23, 2018

 

[crawhammer]

Hurts can pass, he was accurate as a collegian and improved as a pro, Josh Allen improved at passing over three years, Daniels Jones is barely serviceable and only looked good this year for the same reason Lamar has looked good in spots... scheme and coaching.

************ I like Daniel Jones probably more than most people but under no circumstances would I compare his talent level to that of Lamar's.

Wrong... if Brady is the greatest in history and won in 2020, if Stafford won in 2021, if Mahomes won in 2022 then passing is the job. Running doesn't matter that much.

Is it about "team" or not? Because you're confusing me with your flipflopping depending on which point you're trying to push in the moment. I'm the jackass for arguing the (more) importance of the quarterback but here you are saying passing won the Super Bowls.

I mean look at your statement... you reference the greatest and winningest quarterback in the history of the league and the new greatest quarterback of his era. At least you've bumbled your way onto something now. Brady and Mahomes have won 6 of the last 9 Super Bowls (while playing in 8 of 9)... duh it's about the quarterback.

If running mattered that much, Lamar would have won when he had a top ten defense and a good offense around him.

Andrews is a nice TE. His WRs collectively have been below average.

Why are you so focused on Mac on a Lamar thread?

Ask yourself that question. I was replying to a comment you made about Mac. In fact, you posed a question. Typically that generates replies.

Why won't you compare Lamar to his peers?

I do it all the time. I created a thread specifically about comparing him to literally every starting quarterback in the NFL.

 

[Brotherblues]

This Jackson situation is bizarre

He is a bizarre kid.

 

[Wozzy]

************ I like Daniel Jones probably more than most people but under no circumstances would I compare his talent level to that of Lamar's.

Lamar is a far superior runner, as a passer they’re pretty similar. Neither is a good passer.

Is it about "team" or not? Because you're confusing me with your flipflopping depending on which point you're trying to push in the moment. I'm the jackass for arguing the (more) importance of the quarterback but here you are saying passing won the Super Bowls.

This is a complete nonsense. It’s a team game, nobody said you could win with piss poor QB play anymore than you can win with bad line play or bad defensive play.

An inability to pass against superior playoff defenses is why Lamar gets bounced in the first round every year. Running won’t help him.

I mean look at your statement... you reference the greatest and winningest quarterback in the history of the league and the new greatest quarterback of his era. At least you've bumbled your way onto something now. Brady and Mahomes have won 6 of the last 9 Super Bowls (while playing in 8 of 9)... duh it's about the quarterback.

Why did you ignore Stafford in between them? Oh yeah…. because he went 12 years without winning a playoff game before changing teams.

I pointed at the last three QB’s to win a Super Bowl… none of them are runners. Mahomes can move around better than the other two but Mac Jones runs the same speed, Mahomes is a passer first and foremost.

Running isn’t nearly as important as passing like you inferred in your previous post. Teams have RB’s to run the ball.

Andrews is a nice TE. His WRs collectively have been below average.

Marquise Brown, Hayden Hurst, Rashod Bateman, Willie Snead, Devin Duvernay, Sammy Watkins, Demarcus Robinson, Isaiah Likely… he’s had serviceable receivers around him his entire career. He’s just not good at passing so they limit his passing attempts.

Ask yourself that question. I was replying to a comment you made about Mac. In fact, you posed a question. Typically that generates replies.

But you ignore comparing Lamar’s stats to his peers, it’s either a young developing QB or somebody from decades ago where the game was completely different.

I do it all the time. I created a thread specifically about comparing him to literally every starting quarterback in the NFL.

While ignoring inconvenient passing stats like attempts and yards.

I don’t have to win this argument now, time will prove my pre-draft assessment about Lamar correct. So far it’s been spot on.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Lamar is an 8th year running back. His window of opportunity is closing as his body breaks down.

 

[crawhammer]

Lamar is a far superior runner, as a passer they’re pretty similar. Neither is a good passer.

Lamar TD% = 6.1 (3rd among active QBs)
DJ TD% = 3.4 (33rd among active QBs)

Not similar.

Why did you ignore Stafford in between them? Oh yeah…. because he went 12 years without winning a playoff game before changing teams.

I ignored him because he's irrelevant when I'm point out that Brady and Mahomes have won 67% of the last 9 Super Bowls.

Teams have RB’s to run the ball.

2022 NFL Leaders in Rushing Yards Per Attempt

1. Justin Fields 7.1
2. Lamar Jackson 6.8
3. Josh Allen 6.1
4. Daniel Jones 5.9

Hmm... looks like the best runners in the league are QBs.

He’s just not good at passing so they limit his passing attempts.

We already addressed this. He averages 6.8 yards per rush. So he had better be running the ball. A lot.

Marquise Brown, Hayden Hurst, Rashod Bateman, Willie Snead, Devin Duvernay, Sammy Watkins, Demarcus Robinson, Isaiah Likely… he’s had serviceable receivers around him his entire career.

That's a frightening list. 2 1000-yard seasons out of a combined 39 seasons. The majority of those seasons not in a Ravens uniform so you can't blame Lamar.

But you ignore comparing Lamar’s stats to his peers, it’s either a young developing QB or somebody from decades ago where the game was completely different.

I lined him up with every starting QB in the league. I can't get more comprehensive than that.

I don’t have to win this argument now, time will prove my pre-draft assessment about Lamar correct. So far it’s been spot on.

Especially that prediction of him winning an NFL MVP... oh wait, that wasn't you, that was me.

 

[Wozzy]

Lamar TD% = 6.1 (3rd among active QBs)
DJ TD% = 3.4 (33rd among active QBs)

Not similar.

Lamar has been in an optimal situation on the Ravens, one of the best run organizations in the AFC. The Giants have been an utter dumpster fire and Daniel Jones has gone through three different head coaches in four years.

I swear, you truly belive these QB's play in a vacuum and the results would be the same regardless of coaching, team, health or opponent. It's the worst fan fiction take in all of football.

I ignored him because he's irrelevant when I'm point out that Brady and Mahomes have won 67% of the last 9 Super Bowls.

You ignored Stafford because he is an uncomfortable truth you'd rather not confront.

Not only did you ignore him but you ignored how none of the QB's who have won the Super Bowl in the entire modern age have been running QB's who struggled with accuracy. They were all passers, some of them were statues who could barely run at all.

2022 NFL Leaders in Rushing Yards Per Attempt

1. Justin Fields 7.1
2. Lamar Jackson 6.8
3. Josh Allen 6.1
4. Daniel Jones 5.9

Hmm... looks like the best runners in the league are QBs.

Sure, it's really easy when running is the secondary option and opponents are focused on stopping the RB's, WR's, TE's and not getting mauled by linemen.

Boy.. I can't believe you just held that ^ up as proof of anything. Yeah... QB's should be able to run easier, their job is passing the ball.

We already addressed this. He averages 6.8 yards per rush. So he had better be running the ball. A lot.

That's a frightening list. 2 1000-yard seasons out of a combined 39 seasons. The majority of those seasons not in a Ravens uniform so you can't blame Lamar.

I lined him up with every starting QB in the league. I can't get more comprehensive than that.

Especially that prediction of him winning an NFL MVP... oh wait, that wasn't you, that was me.

This conversation is a never-ending slog of the same repeated nonsense. Come find me when Lamar Jackson wins more than one playoff game... I won't even put a Super Bowl on him, just let him win a couple games.

The only playoff game he has won in his entire career was against the Titans in the first round in 2020. The Titan's defense was the worst defense in the entire playoffs that year. They were ranked 27th in points allowed, 30th in yards allowed, 29th in passing yards allowed and 31st in passing TD's allowed... Lamar went 17-24, 179 yards, no TD's and 1 interception.. but won anyway.

He completed 71% of his passes against that horrid defense, it was the only playoff game he didn't fumble the ball.

In the three other playoff games against superior playoff caliber defenses he completed 48%, 52%, 58% of his passes, threw 4 interceptions and fumbled the ball 5 times.

Again how about instead of responding with the same canned cherry picked response you just wait and come gloat when Lamar succeeds in the playoffs. Really make me eat some humble pie.... I'll be waiting... waiting a really really long time... or at least until his career final wraps up. Then I'll remind you about my pre-draft analysis of Lamar, and you'll remind me about the moral victory of his 2019 MVP... as if that made my prediction any less accurate.

 

[crawhammer]

 

[crawhammer]

 

[crawhammer]

 

[BennyBledsoe]

You're bringing up his rushing stats vs the Pats? A team with slow linebackers? I'm supposed to be impressed?

 

[crawhammer]

You're bringing up his rushing stats vs the Pats? A team with slow linebackers? I'm supposed to be impressed?

Here's a better question... with all of the draft picks and $ spent in free agency by Belichick, why are the Patriots a team with slow linebackers??

Also, I guess it's ok to point out Belichick's shortcomings when it fits your agenda. After all he apparently can't stop a "running back at QB who can't pass." Even though that same QB passed for 11 of 12 for 127 yards and 4 TDs against the blitz in one game.