Im a big no on lamar jackson...

[crawhammer]

Are you honestly asking me to predict the Patriots QB 5-6 years from now?

You mentioned 7 years, so yeah, sort of.

If you are going to quote me, at least quote me honestly. What I said - and what you left out - was:

I'd rather have Mac Jones plus 2 firsts plus $300 million in cap space spread out over the next 7 years than Lamar Jackson.

If anything, the idea that we save $300 million in cap space over the next 7 years implies we don't keep Jones after he hits free agency....

I quoted you fully. I merely broke it down in the follow up post to explain where I was coming from. You clarified now so I see what you're saying. I'd still pursue Lamar now and max out my probability for contending over the next 3-5 seasons with an elite football player running my offense.

 

[XLIX]

What predicament are the Broncos in?

What predicament are the Broncos in? They are married for the next 3 years to a 34 year old QB who threw all of 16 TD's last year against 11 INT's with an abysmal 84.4 rating (#27 in the League).

They're going into year two of Wilson and their offense looked competent away from Hackett to end last year. Did they lose talent? Is their roster worse off now than it was in 2021 due to Wilson's contract? They sucked last year because Wilson himself sucked, what difference did it make that he sucked making the salary he was making instead of 5 million?

You're joking, right? You honestly don't see any difference between a QB who sucks at a $5 million cap hit versus a QB who sucks at a $45 million cap hit?

Really..?!?!?

What predicament are the Packers in?

Do you even follow the NFL? They are a team desperately trying to get rid of a MVP QB. Do you honestly see GB's extension they gave to Rodgers a couple years ago as having been a success?

And the Rams won a Super Bowl after signing Goff to that deal so wow, it really must have set them back a lot, just completely wrecked the franchise.

They didn't win it with Goff. Just because Stafford worked out for them doesn't mean the Goff signing was a good one.

And if we are being honest, the Rams totally mortgaged the future to make their run at the Super Bowl. It worked out perfectly since they won it, but now they are in for some very lean years.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I personally hate Rodgers but I could have seen where BB may have a taken a chance on Rodgers for 2-3 seasons to chase one last Super Bowl. Now in the case of the Jets, their team being in a different (better imo) position than the Patriots, and really being just a franchise QB away from contending for the next 3-5 seasons, I think they should step back from the Rodgers table and pursue Lamar. The Jets can afford to trade the picks and they have the cap space for Lamar.

I also again think the Patriots should pursue Lamar with every fiber at their disposal. And I don't think Mac's going to be a "winning" quarterback. He's too limited and in particular he has shown no ability to lead a comeback in an NFL game. Thus far, if he's down on the scoreboard, it's staying that way.

I have not read of any GMs in the league pursuing the FA Lamar Jackson. Since you feel the Pats should pursue Lamar with "every fiber" (and I am guessing you feel that way about other teams too), I wonder why none of the GMs are listening?

 

[XLIX]

I quoted you fully. I merely broke it down in the follow up post to explain where I was coming from. You clarified now so I see what you're saying. I'd still pursue Lamar now and max out my probability for contending over the next 3-5 seasons with an elite football player running my offense.

Well, considering how well Baltimore has done with that "elite football player" running their offense - and they had him at cheap dollars thus far - I see no reason to believe that bringing him to New England makes New England a contender.

 

[crawhammer]

I have not read of any GMs in the league pursuing the FA Lamar Jackson. Since you feel the Pats should pursue Lamar with "every fiber" (and I am guessing you feel that way about other teams too), I wonder why none of the GMs are listening?

It's a highly complicated situation. One of the many variables isn't lack of interest in the player.

Well, considering how well Baltimore has done with that "elite football player" running their offense - and they had him at cheap dollars thus far - I see no reason to believe that bringing him to New England makes New England a contender.

I do, he's a much better football player than either of our current QB options. I mean, doesn't nearly everyone agree with that? The Patriots have been on the fringe of the playoffs for two seasons with a mediocre quarterback, so an obvious upgrade at that spot is going to improve their chances.

You're also overlooking Baltimore's inability to win without Lamar since he's been on their roster... 45-16 with him (which is among the highest QB-winning percentages in the NFL) and 8-13 without him.

 

[Steve102]

It's a highly complicated situation. One of the many variables isn't lack of interest in the player.

Davy Jones first word here tells you why GMs are not breaking down the door.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

It's a highly complicated situation. One of the many variables isn't lack of interest in the player.

Sounds like my divorce.

 

[XLIX]

It's a highly complicated situation. One of the many variables isn't lack of interest in the player.


I do, he's a much better football player than either of our current QB options. I mean, doesn't nearly everyone agree with that?

As I stated before.... he is not better than Mac Jones + 2 first rounders + about $300 million in cap space spread out over the next 7 years.

You're also overlooking Baltimore's inability to win without Lamar since he's been on their roster... 45-16 with him (which is among the highest QB-winning percentages in the NFL) and 8-13 without him.

And you're overlooking their complete lack of success in the playoffs.

There is a reason why QB's who primarily focus on the run succeed in the regular season far, far more than they succeed in the postseason. It is easy for Lamar to beat up the also rans in the regular season. Once you play postseason caliber defenses, you need a QB who can pass.

Furthermore, he has come down to Earth since his MVP season, and been fairly average the past 2 years. Defenses have figured him out.

 

[crawhammer]

And you're overlooking their complete lack of success in the playoffs.

There is a reason why QB's who primarily focus on the run succeed in the regular season far, far more than they succeed in the postseason. It is easy for Lamar to beat up the also rans in the regular season. Once you play postseason caliber defenses, you need a QB who can pass.

Furthermore, he has come down to Earth since his MVP season, and been especially mediocre the past 2 years.

Hurts just nearly won a Super Bowl. He had 43 rushing attempts for 182 yards and 5 TDs in the postseason.

Lamar passes and rushes for more yards per game in the postseason than the regular season. He averages 6.8 yards per carry in the postseason. His issue in the postseason has been not maintaining his TD and INT percentages from the regular season. I'm not giving up on him after merely 4 postseason games. He's still only 26.

Defenses have figured him out.

What happened week 3 at Gillette?

 

[XLIX]

Hurts just nearly won a Super Bowl. He had 43 rushing attempts for 182 yards and 5 TDs in the postseason.

Yeah so what's your point? Jalen Hurts is already light years ahead of Lamar Jackson as a passer. I stand by my statement: Once you play postseason caliber defenses, you need a QB who can pass.

What happened week 3 at Gillette?

Newsflash: The fact that he has an isolated good game here and there does not change the fact that the past 2 years for Jackson have been quite pedestrian. Your cherry picking one single game does nothing to change that.

 

[1960Pats]

Ok, you're overstating the "willing to play" bit. There's no questioning Lamar's competitiveness and desire to be great. He's clearly bet on himself being at least paid like a top 5 QB and I'm sure he's confident he can play up to that standard.

I'll say too for the hundredth time, Lamar has never sustained a serious injury, and he's a full go for 2023.


Unfortunate if true. An opportunity for a football player of this caliber doesn't happen very often. Some team is going to be extremely grateful to have Lamar next season.

Yes, I did overstate the willing to play part a bit. I actually supported his decision to sit at the end of last year.

When it comes to injuries LJ is definitely trending downward though. That alone would keep me from spending money on him. I'm sure that Kraft feels the same way, in spite of his attempt to pass the buck to Bill.

Lamar's a truly gifted runner but not so hot as a passer. And you're right, players of that caliber don't happen very often. But they win even less.

There was a Giants LB who had comments about running QBs when Cant Newton came into the league with his gums flapping. I can't remember his name but the player stated that to win it all in the NYFL you needed a pocket passer. And when you look at it, then and now, that guy was/is spot on.

 

[crawhammer]

Yeah so what's your point? Jalen Hurts is already light years ahead of Lamar Jackson as a passer.

QB Comparison

Lamar Jackson
63.7 CMP%
6.1 TD%
2.3 INT%
7.4 Y/A
174.4 Y/G
96.7 Passer Rating

Jalen Hurts
62.3 CMP%
4.2 TD%
1.8 INT%
7.6 Y/A
175.7 Y/G
92.2 Passer Rating

Hurts is light years ahead? Where? They're virtually the same in Y/A and Y/G. Lamar has a slightly better CMP%. A better passer rating. And a much better TD%. I guess the one notable advantage for Hurts is INT%, but it's not that significant, and both of their percentages are good.

Newsflash: The fact that he has an isolated good game here and there does not change the fact that the past 2 years for Jackson have been quite pedestrian. Your cherry picking one single game does nothing to change that.

Pedestrian if you eliminate the 1531 rushing yards. If you're being fair then you don't ignore 50% of his game.

 

[XLIX]

QB Comparison

Lamar Jackson
63.7 CMP%
6.1 TD%
2.3 INT%
7.4 Y/A
174.4 Y/G
96.7 Passer Rating

Jalen Hurts
62.3 CMP%
4.2 TD%
1.8 INT%
7.6 Y/A
175.7 Y/G
92.2 Passer Rating

Hurts is light years ahead? Where? They're virtually the same in Y/A and Y/G. Lamar has a slightly better CMP%. A better passer rating. And a much better TD%. I guess the one notable advantage for Hurts is INT%, but it's not that significant, and both of their percentages are good.

Hurts started his career slowly then threw for 3,700 yards this season - something Lamar can’t even dream of.

Pedestrian if you eliminate the 1531 rushing yards. If you're being fair then you don't ignore 50% of his game.

No, I *was* being fair and including the rushing. His past 2 years are pedestrian if you include the rushing. If you ignore the rushing, it’s atrocious.

The past 2 seasons, when we include the rushing, he has about 6,600 total yards and 38 total touchdowns against 25 turnovers. Calling that pedestrian is generous.

 

[crawhammer]

Hurts started his career slowly then threw for 3,700 yards this season - something Lamar can’t even dream of.

You don't only look at the gross number, you look at the yards per game as well. Hurts had 247 Y/G in 2022 whereas Lamar had 240 Y/G in 2021. Only a marginal difference. I like both of these QBs a lot. Hurts moved up to 4th on my QB rankings, ahead of Lamar. But I'd prefer Lamar if I had to pick one as my QB... more explosive rusher, stronger arm, more upside as a passer. You can't go wrong with either one though imo.