Im a big no on lamar jackson...

[RodThePat]

I agree with all of that. Mac does save $35M in '23 and '24, and $15M in '25. What was your point? 1. You think Lamar is a championship level QB? If yes, how do you restructure our cap to fit Lamar in 2023? 2. You think RK is going to sign a $250M guaranteed check to Lamar? 3. You want to give up our 2024 and 2025 1st round picks for Lamar and trade Mac? 4. If Lamar gets injured or does not work out, you are comfortable with a 6 year, $240M guaranteed contract that would wreck the Psts until 2029?

Yes to all of those, except point number 2, the one I have zero control over. And oh my god at "wreck the Pats", such hyperbole with money in this board. Are the Bills going to be wrecked by Josh Allen? Are the Chiefs wrecked with Mahomes? Were the Colts wrecked by Peyton Manning's contract? It's the NFL, top tier Quarterbacks see every dime of their deals and they just continuously restructure to ease up on cap expenditure in exchange for getting cash up front. Brady did that for years. This fanbase has been so brainwashed by the idea that players just can't be properly compensated otherwise the franchise will explode. The Jets will field a team in 2023 with Aaron Rodgers under contract because, news flash, even though he'll get 59 million dollars next season his cap hit will only be 31 million. The cap goes up every single year, you can push the salary of great players into the future without compromising your structure. Cash is the limitation, not cap. And it ain't my cash.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Yes to all of those, except point number 2, the one I have zero control over. And oh my god at "wreck the Pats", such hyperbole with money in this board. Are the Bills going to be wrecked by Josh Allen? Are the Chiefs wrecked with Mahomes? Were the Colts wrecked by Peyton Manning's contract? It's the NFL, top tier Quarterbacks see every dime of their deals and they just continuously restructure to ease up on cap expenditure in exchange for getting cash up front. Brady did that for years. This fanbase has been so brainwashed by the idea that players just can't be properly compensated otherwise the franchise will explode. The Jets will field a team in 2023 with Aaron Rodgers under contract because, news flash, even though he'll get 59 million dollars next season his cap hit will only be 31 million. The cap goes up every single year, you can push the salary of great players into the future without compromising your structure. Cash is the limitation, not cap. And it ain't my cash.

Some fans have a hard time with the cap. Not speaking for anyone but it seems a lot are stuck in the 2010's in many regards. With contracts, position/player value. The cap is easily manipulated and it's only getting larger.

The bolded sums it up nicely.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

The best option isn't to bring in an injury-prone, average QB and pay him a king's ransom.

Calling Jackson average is wild. Wins aren't a QB stat even though Pats fans treated them as such for years. That said he's 45-16 with a playoff win. Dragging a bottom 5-10 WR corp to the playoffs more often than not. Not liking him is fine but calling him "average" is projection my man. I feel like you're talking about yourself bc hes been a top 10 QB the majority of the time he's been in the league.

He decided not to risk his future on a team that F'd up injuries with multiple players, personnel decisions (not spending on WR while you have a top 10 QB on a rookie deal) and were unprepared for most of the playoff games recently under Harbaugh.

If he is average I'd love to know what Mac is? Much more favorable situation and hasn't had one legit great game in 2 years. I get that Patricia is a stooge but usually greatness peaks through no matter how bad the situation - Manning's rookie year, Burrows rookie year. Disasters at times but you came away thinking both would be a SB QB sooner than later. We haven't seen 1 game that resembles special. Which is kind of important considering you don't win with "average" in this league.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

The problem with trading for Jackson is the price, then the contract demands, and then the injury factor.

There is a finite amount of time any body can take the NFL punishment. Jackson already has 5 years of it. It is just too much to ask for to mortgage everything to bring him in, change the entire offense, and then " hope" he doesn't get hurt.

I highly doubt anyone makes him a contract offer. He plays for the Ratbirds on the franchise tag this year, and maybe next.

 

[RodThePat]

Some fans have a hard time with the cap. Not speaking for anyone but it seems a lot are stuck in the 2010's in many regards. With contracts, position/player value. The cap is easily manipulated and it's only getting larger.

The bolded sums it up nicely.

When Peyton Manning signed his record setting deal in 2004, the APY on his contract was 14 million dollars in an 80 million dollar cap. His cap hit for 2004? A meager 8 million, with 35 million in cash received. You can structure big QB contracts to manage cap hits while giving them cash up front for their troubles, it's done by every team and it's not a recent maneuver either. Top tier QBs are perfect for that because there is a certain baseline of performance you can count on and those guys don't generally drop of the face of the earth before hitting like 37 years old. It's way riskier to push money into the future by restructuring corners or receivers, with QBs the risks are lessened significantly. Now, Lamar does have an injury history that would make me more weary to do this sort of cap management with than I would, say, Joe Burrow, but still, you can fit that contract in without compromising your salary structure. If you don't like the player and don't want him that's fine, if his health gives you pause it's perfectly understandable, but if you don't want him because it would screw up the Patriots cap, that's just simply not a valid reason not to make the trade.

 

[XLIX]

Yes to all of those, except point number 2, the one I have zero control over. And oh my god at "wreck the Pats", such hyperbole with money in this board. Are the Bills going to be wrecked by Josh Allen? Are the Chiefs wrecked with Mahomes? Were the Colts wrecked by Peyton Manning's contract?

"Wrecked" is a vague term, but it is worth mentioning that in the past 25 years, only 1 team has won a Super Bowl with the QB taking up >20% of the team's cap number. Even Mahomes last year, who is still in the early stages of his 10 year deal, is still under the 20% threshold.

Plus I don't see you mentioning the QB deals which really did backfire. I don't see GB happy with their Rodgers contract. I am sure Denver would love to walk away from the Wilson contract. The Rams blundered by giving Goff so much money. And Tennessee doesn't seem to be happy with Tannehill's deal.

It's the NFL, top tier Quarterbacks see every dime of their deals and they just continuously restructure to ease up on cap expenditure in exchange for getting cash up front.

If it's so easy, then why is Baltimore, Green Bay, Denver and Tennessee in their current predicaments?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Aren't Patricia and Judge still there?

Patricia No. Judge was moved "upstairs" having no direct player coaching role is my understanding.

 

[crawhammer]

I'd rather have Mac Jones plus 2 firsts plus $300 million in cap space spread out over the next 7 years than Lamar Jackson.

You think Mac Jones is going to be our QB for the next 7 years?? Oh please where can I NOT sign up for that?

 

[1960Pats]

Calling Jackson average is wild. Wins aren't a QB stat even though Pats fans treated them as such for years. That said he's 45-16 with a playoff win. Dragging a bottom 5-10 WR corp to the playoffs more often than not. Not liking him is fine but calling him "average" is projection my man. I feel like you're talking about yourself bc hes been a top 10 QB the majority of the time he's been in the league.

He decided not to risk his future on a team that F'd up injuries with multiple players, personnel decisions (not spending on WR while you have a top 10 QB on a rookie deal) and were unprepared for most of the playoff games recently under Harbaugh.

If he is average I'd love to know what Mac is? Much more favorable situation and hasn't had one legit great game in 2 years. I get that Patricia is a stooge but usually greatness peaks through no matter how bad the situation - Manning's rookie year, Burrows rookie year. Disasters at times but you came away thinking both would be a SB QB sooner than later. We haven't seen 1 game that resembles special. Which is kind of important considering you don't win with "average" in this league.

I never played QB in the NYFL. If I played any positions they would have been WR and S with kicks and punts thrown in. I had a strong leg back in my day and I could have been the first barefoot kicker.

Between my not watching many Ravens games and Jackson sitting on the sideline with one of his many injuries, I haven't seen him a real lot. But I've seen enough to know that he can't stay in the pocket and read defenses and isn't all that accurate even when he does.

And in the playoffs he's been even worse. Another of Jackson's rumpswabs was praising him for 508 yards of offense but forgot to mention that the team only scored 12 points and that he threw two picks and fumbled once. That game, like most of his playoff games, didn't even reach the level of average.

As for him sitting I actually supported that in the position he was in at the time. But I do think he made a colossal mistake in not having an agent and getting into that situation to begin with.

Mac is another story altogether. We can't say for sure yet what he is or will be, especially with the lost coaching year, but he was a 14th pick, well ahead of where Jackson was picked. That, plus the fact that nobody seems to want him now, including Belichick, should tell a draftnick like you something. I doubt that it will though.

 

[1960Pats]

Patricia No. Judge was moved "upstairs" having no direct player coaching role is my understanding.

Thanks. I thought they were still both with the team but in different capacities.

 

[crawhammer]

The jury is still out on Mac Jones. However, I've seen all that I need to see of Jackson, you know, on those semi rare occasions when he's ready or willing to play.

Ok, you're overstating the "willing to play" bit. There's no questioning Lamar's competitiveness and desire to be great. He's clearly bet on himself being at least paid like a top 5 QB and I'm sure he's confident he can play up to that standard.

I'll say too for the hundredth time, Lamar has never sustained a serious injury, and he's a full go for 2023.

Of course this is a totally meaningless discussion we're having because there's no way that Bill or Bob want him. Bob because he'd costs too much and Bill because he'd be making less than one of his players, which appears to be a big part of doing whatever's best for the t-e-a-m team.

Unfortunate if true. An opportunity for a football player of this caliber doesn't happen very often. Some team is going to be extremely grateful to have Lamar next season.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yes to all of those, except point number 2, the one I have zero control over. And oh my god at "wreck the Pats", such hyperbole with money in this board. Are the Bills going to be wrecked by Josh Allen? Are the Chiefs wrecked with Mahomes? Were the Colts wrecked by Peyton Manning's contract? It's the NFL, top tier Quarterbacks see every dime of their deals and they just continuously restructure to ease up on cap expenditure in exchange for getting cash up front. Brady did that for years. This fanbase has been so brainwashed by the idea that players just can't be properly compensated otherwise the franchise will explode. The Jets will field a team in 2023 with Aaron Rodgers under contract because, news flash, even though he'll get 59 million dollars next season his cap hit will only be 31 million. The cap goes up every single year, you can push the salary of great players into the future without compromising your structure. Cash is the limitation, not cap. And it ain't my cash.

Agreed. Signing Lamar, the Pats lose two 1st round picks, $85M in salary cap, and the Fans lose the opportunity to watch Mac emerge ;-). Thanks for being straightforward. I think Lamar is exciting and fun, but doubt he will ever win anything (except higher draft pick positions). I would prefer to restructure again looking for a "winning" QB if Mac is not one. I might sign a veteran like A Rodgers for 2 years if possible - I do not see that as the same as signing an unproven QB like Lamar for 6 years as you indicated in your news flash. I vote to not sign Lamar and risk it with Mac.

 

[XLIX]

You think Mac Jones is going to be our QB for the next 7 years?? Oh please where can I NOT sign up for that?

Where did I say that?

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

You think Mac Jones is going to be our QB for the next 7 years?? Oh please where can I NOT sign up for that?

how bout judge him thiis year with a decent coach then you can make your assumtions...

 

[crawhammer]

Where did I say that?

Maybe you didn't? But who's your QB in this scenario?

I'd rather have Mac Jones plus 2 firsts plus $300 million in cap space spread out over the next 7 years than Lamar Jackson.

"I'd rather have Mac Jones... over the next 7 years..." You said MJ "plus"... over the the next 7 years... meaning both. Or I could be misinterpreting your comment.

 

[1960Pats]

Where did I say that?

You didn't. Nobody did. It's what they see when anyone says they don't want Jackson.

 

[crawhammer]

Agreed. Signing Lamar, the Pats lose two 1st round picks, $85M in salary cap, and the Fans lose the opportunity to watch Mac emerge ;-). Thanks for being straightforward. I think Lamar is exciting and fun, but doubt he will ever win anything (except higher draft pick positions). I would prefer to restructure again looking for a "winning" QB if Mac is not one. I might sign a veteran like A Rodgers for 2 years if possible - I do not see that as the same as signing an unproven QB like Lamar for 6 years as you indicated in your news flash. I vote to not sign Lamar and risk it with Mac.

I personally hate Rodgers but I could have seen where BB may have a taken a chance on Rodgers for 2-3 seasons to chase one last Super Bowl. Now in the case of the Jets, their team being in a different (better imo) position than the Patriots, and really being just a franchise QB away from contending for the next 3-5 seasons, I think they should step back from the Rodgers table and pursue Lamar. The Jets can afford to trade the picks and they have the cap space for Lamar.

I also again think the Patriots should pursue Lamar with every fiber at their disposal. And I don't think Mac's going to be a "winning" quarterback. He's too limited and in particular he has shown no ability to lead a comeback in an NFL game. Thus far, if he's down on the scoreboard, it's staying that way.

 

[RodThePat]

"Wrecked" is a vague term, but it is worth mentioning that in the past 25 years, only 1 team has won a Super Bowl with the QB taking up >20% of the team's cap number. Even Mahomes last year, who is still in the early stages of his 10 year deal, is still under the 20% threshold.

Plus I don't see you mentioning the QB deals which really did backfire. I don't see GB happy with their Rodgers contract. I am sure Denver would love to walk away from the Wilson contract. The Rams blundered by giving Goff so much money. And Tennessee doesn't seem to be happy with Tannehill's deal.


If it's so easy, then why is Baltimore, Green Bay, Denver and Tennessee in their current predicaments?

What predicament are the Broncos in? They're going into year two of Wilson and their offense looked competent away from Hackett to end last year. Did they lose talent? Is their roster worse off now than it was in 2021 due to Wilson's contract? They sucked last year because Wilson himself sucked, what difference did it make that he sucked making the salary he was making instead of 5 million?

What predicament are the Packers in? They're moving on from Rodgers because he won't commit to coming back and his play diminished last year and this is their final opportunity to ascertain whether Jordan Love is the guy. What about his contract has made the Packers materially worse off? They'll trade him to the Jets.

Baltimore is negotiating with a player without an agent and now wants other interested team to set terms for them. How has Lamar screwed them in any way? He hasn't even made the money.

And the Rams won a Super Bowl after signing Goff to that deal so wow, it really must have set them back a lot, just completely wrecked the franchise.

The fact is most top tier QBs end up costing least than 20% of the cap by default. They continuously restructure so they don't ever count for as much against the cap as they make in cash. That's entirely my point. Mahomes will never cap strap the Chiefs. Neither will Allen. Just like Brady and Manning pretty much never did.

 

[XLIX]

Maybe you didn't? But who's your QB in this scenario?

Are you honestly asking me to predict the Patriots QB 5-6 years from now?

"I'd rather have Mac Jones... over the next 7 years..." You said MJ "plus"... over the the next 7 years... meaning both. Or I could be misinterpreting your comment.

If you are going to quote me, at least quote me honestly. What I said - and what you left out - was:

I'd rather have Mac Jones plus 2 firsts plus $300 million in cap space spread out over the next 7 years than Lamar Jackson.

If anything, the idea that we save $300 million in cap space over the next 7 years implies we don't keep Jones after he hits free agency....

 

[crawhammer]

how bout judge him thiis year with a decent coach then you can make your assumtions...

I think that's fair also. Mac should look better under O'Brien. I don't think his supporting cast has improved much, if at all, so far, which is going to be just as important heading into next season. Collectively I would grade out the WRs about the same. Gesicki improves the TEs. Robinson is a downgrade from Harris at RB2.