If you were Kraft and this season doesn’t improve, do you move on from Bill after this season?

[sb1]

Maybe it's time the Pats just blow it all up and go on a full blown tank mode for this year and next. The goal should be SB. The Pats are just scraping by to try and be .500 and maybe make the playoff. It's not good enough.

I'm still following the Bucs and they still have big name veterans playing lights out and a bunch of great players on rookie deals. Unfortunately, when I look at the Pats, it's not on the same level.

Me too. The Bucs are still fun to watch and Mayfield might have found a home there. They’re playing well.

 

[RIpats88]

Me too. The Bucs are still fun to watch and Mayfield might have found a home there. They’re playing well.

Bucs have been a surprise. But I think they also are proof that if you have a solid offensive roster you can win with a QB like Mayfield.

He's not Brady, but Mike Evans and Godwin are making him look better than he did previously on other teams.

 

[Pats2000]

As much as i hate to say it, BB is done. He just doesn't have it anymore. The teams have been undisciplined, making mistakes in critical downs, offensively they have been middling, the only bright spot has been the D, even special teams has made a bunch of uncharacteristic blunders.

Its the end of an era, and it was the worst way it could ene unfortunately. Kraft would be smart to cut his losses and move on. In the meantime I'm going to think of a new screen name

 

[Pats2000]

I'll put it this way. I'm a Star Wars fan (or, I was). George Lucas did the prequels which were awful. The main reason was that he surrounded himself with people who didn't challenge him like they did in the old days. It's the same with the Pats. BB has been the head honcho for a long long time (even by NFL standards). He's surrounded himself with people who don't challenge him...not really. You can look to the "kiss the rings" crowd like Thornton but the truth is, he's too comfortable. No one is pushing him. He wants to catch Shula but right now. With this team (injuries aside), it's not happening. It's tough, I know. The game has changed. There is no "We're on to Cincinnati". The team is what the team is and your record says what you are....At the bottom with the Jets.

Does he need to go? That's a hard question. Right now....I'd say yes. Who do you replace him with? I don't know. Will there be pain for us Pats Fans in the future? Most definitely. But for those who remember, that was the natural state of the franchise before Bledsoe/Tuna. We're probably heading into the wilds again.

Mayo would be the most natural selection i think. Rumor was teams were considering him for a head coach role and he's done a lot with the offense. You could roll the dice on Steve, but that might be the fruit from the poison tree with his dad getting fired

 

[SteveBsFan]

That's the thing. You could put any QB back there. And nothing is getting better. Zappe came in yesterday and went 4-9 for 57 yards and was running for his life.

^^ this

Zappe entered the game facing a fierce pass rush that was in full pass rush mode due to the score and still looked better than Mac last season and most of this.

Yet Belichick already committed to Mac next week? That’s why I feel it’s his time to go. He’s stuck in his ways and he’s not accepting he can’t win with a mediocre qb in this league now.

And before people say it, I’m not suggesting Zappe is the long-term solution. But he has outplayed Mac whenever he gets the chance yet they keep running out Jones.

It almost feels like he is trying to prove he can develop Mac the way he did with Brady but Mac isn’t the guy. Even when Brady was in his dink n dunk phase, he had ice in his veins and hit receivers in the numbers.

2003-2004 Brady - ****, 2001 Brady would probably be 3-1 right now. He definitely wouldn’t have blown both those first two comeback attempts of the season.

 

[Bruins29]

You are saying if you complain, boycott etc they will make changes because you don’t like the product.
What would they change? If they are tryin to win why would a fan unhappy that they aren’t winning cause them to change something? They are doing what they think is best.

I was not really saying that. But if that is what you took from it that is fine.

What you seem to be saying is that there is only one type of fan base and that it is a bulletproof one which will back a team no matter what. Who are you and I to agree or disagree. I do call on some witnesses though:

Colts
Browns
Raiders
Chargers
Cardinals
Grizzlies
Thunder
Braves
Thrashers
Nordiques
Jets
Rams
Flames
Whalers
Stars
Oilers

 

[Ring 6]

I was not really saying that. But if that is what you took from it that is fine.

What you seem to be saying is that there is only one type of fan base and that it is a bulletproof one which will back a team no matter what. Who are you and I to agree or disagree. I do call on some witnesses though:

Colts
Browns
Raiders
Chargers
Cardinals
Grizzlies
Thunder
Braves
Thrashers
Nordiques
Jets
Rams
Flames
Whalers
Stars
Oilers

Well we are talking about the NFL in 2023.
I don’t see any NFL team in this era or any other, who had fans revolt and stop showing up and making the team change
I see some owners who chose to move.
If you have a point, kindly explain.

Better yet, answer the question you keep avoiding. Change what?

 

[Bruins29]

Well we are talking about the NFL in 2023.
I don’t see any NFL team in this era or any other, who had fans revolt and stop showing up and making the team change
I see some owners who chose to move.
If you have a point, kindly explain.

Better yet, answer the question you keep avoiding. Change what?

You don’t think it’s possible to “change” a philosophy on how to win ?

 

[Ring 6]

You don’t think it’s possible to “change” a philosophy on how to win ?

Explain. Explain how the winningest franchise in memory will suddenly believe since fans are complaining that they’ve been doing everything wrong and should adopt a new outlook because they had a few down years, as happens to everyone.

Also explain how a fan base with a 20 year season ticket waiting list would execute such a coup.

 

[Bruins29]

Explain. Explain how the winningest franchise in memory will suddenly believe since fans are complaining that they’ve been doing everything wrong and should adopt a new outlook because they had a few down years, as happens to everyone.

Also explain how a fan base with a 20 year season ticket waiting list would execute such a coup.

You keep bringing up complaints. Who said that would work. Maybe another poster did. I did not

 

[Stu Pidassle]

If that's true, they are doing a worse job than Bill. This and 2020 were one of the Pats worst off-seasons since 2000.

I was referring specifically to the draft which has been better. To your point ineffective use of free agency and injuries have really created a bad on field product.

 

[Bruins29]

Explain. Explain how the winningest franchise in memory will suddenly believe since fans are complaining that they’ve been doing everything wrong and should adopt a new outlook because they had a few down years, as happens to everyone.

Also explain how a fan base with a 20 year season ticket waiting list would execute such a coup.

And you are taking things to extreme levels in order to prove some point. A “ revolt” a “coup”

it’s never happened so don’t bring up strawman scenarios in order to defend some position that every fan base is unwaverable

 

[RIpats88]

Thing is, Bill wasn't always this stubborn on offense or was he?

In 2006 he left the cupboard bare. So went out and got moss/welker/stallworth.

Left the cupboard bare in 2013 again when Brady was throwing to kenbrell Tompkins so he went in 2014 and got lafell and Hogan. But he had an elite talent in Gronk.

But since 2018 he's basically ignored the offense. Never replaced Gronk leaving us with Ben Watson and the lost 2019 year. Then never replaced White as a 3rd down back.

You would think bill learned from Moss and Gronk the power of having an elite talent. Instead he's rolling out Parker/juju/Bourne. And think he would've learned from always having a reliable 3rd down back that we need one.

But it's like he's even ignoring his own past

 

[Pats2000]

Absolutely nothing but respect for the guy and what he’s done for the organization. He brought an amazing culture and is a fantastic coach.

Unfortunately, he’s a subpar GM and had some abysmal drafts up until 2-3 years ago when he appeared to change philosophy and started grabbing better players (different scouts)?

But even with his coaching, I think it’s just becoming outdated and he’s not picking up on newer trends quick enough. The offense is clearly mostly his system as it has looked relatively the same through Josh, Matt, and now BOB. Yea, they have things like 3 TE sets more, but it’s the same dink n dunk offense that no longer works.

He got the guy who is decent at that (Mac), but defenses around the league are built to try and contain Mahomes, Allen, etc. Stopping the screen pass is significantly easier now with the speed on defense.

So he built the roster he wanted, but the system just doesn’t work. As a programmer, that’s no different than being the team lead and suggesting Visual Basic as the primary language and then wonder why the application performs like **** compared to better languages.

So yea, it’s time to let him go. Give him a forceful retirement. Don’t embarrass the guy. Don’t run him out. Just tell him it’ll be his last season as the league has moved on from his style.

Just my 2c

Short game and screens still work, they just cant be your primary method attack. You have to get your safeties and CB providing cusion and respecting the deep ball threat. You have to suck the LB's down and clear out space in the middle of the field. Getting the D to respect the deep threat also opens up the run game.

The O line cant even impose its will on defenses. So the rub game is middling too. Its just a total breakdown on offense, and their philosophy and lack of skill players is leading to terrible results.

 

[Ring 6]

And you are taking things to extreme levels in order to prove some point. A “ revolt” a “coup”

it’s never happened so don’t bring up strawman scenarios in order to defend some position that every fan base is unwaverable

Right, it’s never happened.

You seem to be backing away from your argument.
Perhaps you should restate your point.

 

[Bruins29]

Right, it’s never happened.

You seem to be backing away from your argument.
Perhaps you should restate your point.

I’d rather concede that no team in sports would ever change anything they are doing regardless of how much ticket sales or interest decline

 

[Ring 6]

I’d rather concede that no team in sports would ever change anything they are doing regardless of how much ticket sales or interest decline

We weren’t discussed “no team in sports”. We were discussing the NFL in 2023 and particularly a team with a 20 year waiting list and many fans looking to buy available tickets.
So please explain what this plan is the reduce season ticket sales or how you would demonstrate interest declined

And after that you can tackle the one that says this would lead to an organization that believes they are doing everything they can to win, to just decide to try something they don’t believe would be as effective, or they would be doing it already.

And after that you can move on to how this mysterious message translates into ownership knowing what this boycott that never happened was instructing them to do.

 

[Bruins29]

We weren’t discussed “no team in sports”. We were discussing the NFL in 2023 and particularly a team with a 20 year waiting list and many fans looking to buy available tickets.
So please explain what this plan is the reduce season ticket sales or how you would demonstrate interest declined

And after that you can tackle the one that says this would lead to an organization that believes they are doing everything they can to win, to just decide to try something they don’t believe would be as effective, or they would be doing it already.

And after that you can move on to how this mysterious message translates into ownership knowing what this boycott that never happened was instructing them to do.

I was wrong the patriots fan base is so galvanized that nothing could cause this team to lose fans

 

[TheRainMaker]

Left the cupboard bare in 2013 again when Brady was throwing to kenbrell Tompkins so he went in 2014 and got lafell and Hogan. But he had an elite talent in Gronk.

Bill actually signed Emmanuel Sanders to an offer sheet in 2013, but Pittsburgh intentionally matched it at the 11th hour just to **** with the Pats. Amendola was signed in 2013 and a very controversial signing. In fact, it’s Welker - Myers 2.0.

Sanders was willing to join NE in 2014 as long as he got what Amendola got. Bill declined. This move came back to haunt them in 2015.

Steve Smith also had NE on his FA list after Baltimore, but he came up with a lame excuse why he signed with Baltimore. I’m sure he regrets this. What an absolute idiot.

Hogan was signed in 2016 - not 2014.

But since 2018 he's basically ignored the offense. Never replaced Gronk leaving us with Ben Watson and the lost 2019 year. Then never replaced White as a 3rd down back.

Throwing to RB’s was a Brady thing. Pats need an all around back.

 

[Jim Beankie]

I'm gonna blame McD. His leaving just f'ed everything up, including his own career. Now Biff's got Lorraine with... with those.



F U DropKickFlutie for scaring him away. Just kidding I liked his posts for the most part.