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After a slow start, the Patriots defense shut down Philadelphia as New England improved to 9-1 on the season.

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Idle thoughts - the "good loss" edition

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. Zuma

    Zuma Dwayne Allen PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here is my take ...

    - I hate the idea of trying to go 19-0. The pressure of winning every game....every play is so overwhelming that later in the season it's just to much. It's not a game anymore...the stress from that is just so overwhelming for the players...it prevents them from being the best they can be. We lost a game...it's not a big deal...and I'm happy to get that one out of the way. I'd rather go 16-3 and win the super bowl then attempt 19-0 and only to see us fail in the playoffs.

    - Their is very little the defense needs to change for the rest of the regular season. Jackson is a highly unique player...their is no need to change the defense because of a player we may not face again this season.

    - And if we do see Jackson again in the playoffs...we'll know to play 4-something instead of starting with a 3-4...which i hated from the 1st play. I don't care if it ends up being a 4-2, 4-3 or 4-4....got to have a 4 man front and re-evaluate how to play gaps against the Ravens. Jackson's weakness is throwing 20+ yards IMO. Make him throw to the secondary 35+ times a game and we'll have very different results.

    - IMO Brady and Sanu would not have had the opportunity to mesh like they did if the game went another way. That is a very big win...I only wish we got Sanu a few years earlier.
     
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  2. 203Pat

    203Pat In the Starting Line-Up

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    Lol nobody ever just lines up and beats us. “We held back” or “we didn’t want the pressure of 19-0”. Completely absurd. They were the better team Sunday night. That’s not to say I don’t think we could beat them in a rematch but to take away from them bullying us the other night is asinine.
     
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  3. Zuma

    Zuma Dwayne Allen PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The better team on that night beat us. But i'm also happy the 19-0 crap is over.

    EDIT: I cannot express strongly enough how i HATE undefeated season talk. I think it is a team killer. They lost and will learn and be a better team.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  4. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    There is No Such Thing as a "good loss."

    We all better hope that the murderer-worshippers lose At Least 2 more games during the rest of the season...because we will, including a week from Sunday.
     
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  5. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    It's not that BB saves it, it's Ernie not telling him until January :p
     
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  6. goheels22002

    goheels22002 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's precisely the point. Wilson is a pocket passer first and only runs when the seas part and he can safely get down or out-of-bounds.

    Jackson hasn't gotten injured, yet. But he is running to gain yards or bait a DL to bite so he can pitch the ball in the option.

    RG3 was mis-used in Washington. They took the #2 pick in the draft, installed Baylor's run option offense with Mike Shanahan's zone blocking scheme and put RGIII in a position where he was responsible for both the passing and rushing attacks. He was great that first year and became rookie of the year. Shanahan's run-option option offense led to two knee injuries for RGIII his rookie year including that hit in the playoffs that was legal but unnecessary.

    Snyder was meddling as usual, so Shanahan rushed RG3 back for his second NFL season after no training camp or pre-season appearances. Shanahan had to shut him down early to protect him from further injury in a dismal 3-13 season. All kinds of acrimony swirled around, and they let Griffin bear the weight of the controversy publicly. It got real ugly.

    Griffin started his third season, dislocated his ankle in week 2, and they let him come back after his backup Colt McCoy got injured. He showed signs of his old self but the still the Redskins finished 4-12. Griffin suffered a concussion in the preseason the following year, and Kurt Cousins took over. That was it.

    The Ravens used a zone blocking scheme on Sunday night to good effect but there we were watching Lamar Jackson run the option against the Patriots where he was the first option on a few plays and it worked. But once again, you had an extraordinary talent risking getting hit in space while they passed for only 163 yards in a big win. In the NFL that is just not sustainable. Sooner or later, Jackson is going to get hit as he turns upfield or just after he dishes the ball to his option back by a bigger, heavier defender intent on sending a message.
     
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  7. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    I would absolutely Love to see that happen...to him and to All the jumpy punk QBs in the league today.
     
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  8. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last night I watched, "Ronnie Lott- A Football Life".

    If he came full speed at Jackson like he did with Ickey Woods.....he's not getting up.
     
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  9. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I would think Jackson is going to miss games from a vicious hit due to his running, not to mention his body was described as slight. Although, I would not characterize him as jumpy punk QB.
     
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  10. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Why not? He's a one-read-then-go ath-a-lete who loves to take advantage of the overly-protective RTP mindset of the league & its zebras and who also loves to play Hero Ball knowing that he has immunity from the hits that he should by all rights be subject to taking every feckin time he has the ball outside of the pocket. He & the rest of these Jumpy Punk QBs are hypocritical cheaters, plain & simple...and I would Absolutely Love to see Each & Every one of these me-first-team-second assholes get their well-deserved comeuppance.
     
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  11. primetime

    primetime Pro Bowl Player

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    Reminds me a bit of Cam Newton, who's built like an absolute tank. The coaching staff in Carolina should have done more to protect Cam over the years. He's a pretty good pocket passer - not an exceptional one, but certainly hovering around top-10 in the NFL when healthy. But he was special because he could break from the pocket, and unlike Wilson, Cam invited and even sought contact because he was so big that he could bully most linebackers and defensive backs. The problem is this exposed his lower body to all sorts of injuries, which in turn has begun to limit his ability as a passer as he moves into his 30s. People dismiss running quarterbacks, but the issue is less with running quarterbacks' skills than with their longevity. It's one thing if you're playing 10 games a year for 3 years in college... when it's 16+ for a decade in the NFL, with bigger and faster guys coming at you, well...

    For what it's worth, I think Jackson could make a successful transition to a Wilson-type. But I think the Ravens are going to have to alter their offense from what it is now to get him there. Otherwise they risk bottling a shooting star for a couple years but losing it down the road. Maybe there's something to that - riding a QB to death for their first rookie contract then discarding him for another new, shiny QB.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  12. primetime

    primetime Pro Bowl Player

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    Idle thoughts of my own... On Cam Newton, I think it's totally possible he's the Patriots starting QB in 2020 if Brady does retire or otherwise leave as rumored, because I think the Panthers are dumb enough to think Kyle Allen is good.
     
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  13. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think its just seeing a team for the first time and what they do well and their weaknesse's and making adjustments to the game plan then second time around. I don't believe there's holding back it's just making adjustments.
     
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  14. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Read the response a few times and trying to find logic.....So, are all running QB's assholes (Flute, Tarkenton, Vick), or just one's that you judge are me-first?
     
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  15. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    1. I believe Sanu was a very good addition to the offense. But with zero offense coming from the tight ends and a 100 year old Watson, how far can we go? Can Brady continue to make Chicken salad out of... spare parts to put it kindly? Also the very sluggish start by the offense, the turnovers, and the poor field position did not do the defense any favors. Imagine Brady reels off an 8 minute 12 play drive to start the game instead of essentially two 3 and outs and the defense might have had more of a chance to catch its breath.

    4. Michel looked better but with only 4 carries, he was far from a factor on the ground. The Pats ran James White twice as much and did not really commit to the run game. Perhaps being behind 0-17 to start the game was a big factor in this.

    5. Actually I believe it was Watson and not Sanu who dropped the deep seam pass. Brady threw an interception on the very next throw. Looked like a frustration throw, so makes you wonder what IF Watson had held onto the ball, how would things have turned out differently?

    The Ravens offense looks like the type that will take you off guard with its speed, its deception/misdirection plays in the beginning, aka Jackson faking the handoff to the RB and taking off himself into the open gap was brutally effective early on as Pats defenders bit hard on the fake.

    But the Pats defense was catching on in the middle quarters. Unfortunately I feel like by the 4th quarter they were 'gassed' and couldn't make the play even if they 'saw it' correctly. Particularly the tight end mismatches you mentioned were obvious big plays for 1st down conversions for the Ravens. I feel the Pats will do much better in a rematch with this offense now that they know what to expect, but that psuedo run-option offense of the Ravens with a spectacular running talent with Lamar Jackson will still be tough to stop.

    b. I hate the Ravens too. I believe they have climbed up to totem pole of #1 threat to the Pats chances of making the Superbowl. Yes, I feel they are more dangerous than a Mahomes-led Chiefs team that has no defense to speak of.

     
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  16. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not going to lie.

    I don't care if it's Cam, Jackson, Vick, Jimmy... I really want to see him ..
    create w a different QB. Its selfish & Madden-like but Id love to see him work w a Murray or even Baker?
     
  17. Ring 6

    Ring 6 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Jackson ran the wildcat against us. His effective career will be just as long as griffins if they keep that up.
     
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  18. Ring 6

    Ring 6 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I don’t think Belichick would want any part of Newton at this point. He won’t hold up as a runner and without running he really isn’t an nfl caliber QB.
     
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  19. Oswlek

    Oswlek Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Just the opposite. Even with Edelman active, NE had Sanu back as a "just get the hell out of the way" returner. If this game did anything to Gunner's status, it solidifed it.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  20. Oswlek

    Oswlek Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    2010 and 2012 were legit.

    2005 may have been the worst officiated playoff game of all time, and is likely in the top 10 of all games. And NE would have likely still prevailed if not for the 5 turnovers. One or the other, but not both.

    2006 still chaps my ass. Polian politicked all week about NE's grabby defense and it swung the pendulum all the way to the other side. Brown was called for OPI on a game sealing (if that phrase can be used on a first half play) completion to Watson. First and 10 from the 19 up 21-3. It was over....until it wasn't.

    We all remember the Hobbs play, but the killer was Bethea literally tackling bug eyes before the ball appeared on screen. No flag. A right call there and NE just needs a FG to win.

    2011 was a legit loss from the standpoint that the players on the field settled it, but NYG doesn't stand a chance of Gronk is healthy. Even then, it took a lone giant beating multiple Patriots to the ball twice, alone with the usual Eli "make a terrible read and somehow be saved by an even worse throw" magic.

    So long as the refs call it square and no Mannings are involved, I don't read too much into that stat. :)
     
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