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Hypothetical trade - J Collins back to NE


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What do you know. Thanks Matt Chatham

 
Collins didnt want to be here. Didnt follow his assignments and wanted more money. They were not going to be able to pay both collins and hightower. And we actually won another SB the season we won the SB.
I dont know what your agenda is but almost all your posts are "everything is bad about this team" .

This is the part some posters perpetually ignore. Right or wrong, for better or worse, BB wants players that will buy in to and execute with some level of consistency what Bill & Staff outline for that player/position. And they put a cap value on that position and try not to deviate from that budget.
"Player A has X measureables (to quote another poster's proper term)! Sign him!!"
It doesn't work that way with Bill & Staff -- no matter how many new "sign the beast" posts are created.
 
Collins didnt want to be here. Didnt follow his assignments and wanted more money. They were not going to be able to pay both collins and hightower. And we actually won another SB the season we won the SB.
I dont know what your agenda is but almost all your posts are "everything is bad about this team" .

Deon Branch did not want to be here. He wanted more money. He would not act right. Branch was welcomed with opened arms when he came back. We missed Deon. We needed old Deon.

We need Collins. He makes plays. Maybe he wants to come back. Maybe he made a mistake and has a change in attitude.

Pointing out the truth upsets you. All players make mistakes in this defense.
 
He missed a tackle?

That settles it.

No, he didn't "miss a tackle" and it does settle it, but not in your favor.

The Chatham example above from @RayClay is exactly the point. Many fans would have blamed Hightower for that play, because at first glance, he "had the edge." But he didn't. Collins did. But Collins saw an opening, impulsively took it, and the play unfolded exactly as Buffalo's offensive planners hoped it would, knowing Collins' tendencies.

He's simply not trustworthy enough for the Pats.
 
As an aside, his salary is only "fully guaranteed" because he was on the 53 man roster for Week 1 of the season. Had he not been, his salary wouldn't be guaranteed.

Also, from what I can tell, Flowers contract was a vet minimum contract of $790K.

Yes, his contract was guaranteed only because of his vested veteran status. I didn’t look it up but suspect he did sign for the vet minimum. If some team comes along with a prorated $2 million a year offer, he’d take it and sign of course.

That team will not be the Patriots until much later in the season because they don’t have the cap room or the easy means of creating more to take on any more salary. Whatever room and flexibility they have will be needed to replace injured players over the rest of the season and not be available to upgrade the bottom of the 53.

Miguel Benzan posted on BSJ Wednesday night regarding how tight the Pat’s cap is and historically how injuries over the rest of the season will require them clearing up more space just to cover additional replacements to the 53.

He promised a follow up post explaining how the Pats can clear up some space. It’s not been posted yet, but I’m real curious what he comes up with because I sure don’t see much flexibility.

Adding M. Flowers, Bucannon, Reddick or Collins would be an improvement, but the Pats cap situation will just not allow it.

To open a new topic of discussion, the best way I can see how the Patriots could open up additional cap space would be to trade a player with a higher salary who’s in the next to last year of their contract so the sped up bonus amortization would not wipe out the savings from the traded salary.

The Patriots have 3 players who fit that description: Brady, Gronk and D. McCourty. You can make an argument that with Duron Harmon replacing him and upgrades acquired from the created cap space that the Patriots could improve the team with such a move.
 
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Deon Branch did not want to be here. He wanted more money. He would not act right. Branch was welcomed with opened arms when he came back. We missed Deon. We needed old Deon.

We need Collins. He makes plays. Maybe he wants to come back. Maybe he made a mistake and has a change in attitude.

Pointing out the truth upsets you. All players make mistakes in this defense.

He doesn't make plays, he's not very good, and he costs a ton of money. Yeah, sure, give up an asset for that.
 
Deon Branch did not want to be here. He wanted more money. He would not act right. Branch was welcomed with opened arms when he came back. We missed Deon. We needed old Deon.

We need Collins. He makes plays. Maybe he wants to come back. Maybe he made a mistake and has a change in attitude.

Pointing out the truth upsets you. All players make mistakes in this defense.
I see the situation a bit differently.

I think Deion wanted to be here. I think the NEP wanted to be here. The only reason Deion was traded was because of a fissure-sized disagreement with compensation. At no time did Deion act un-Patriot like on the field or in the locker room (the holdout doesn't count).
 
Deon Branch did not want to be here. He wanted more money. He would not act right. Branch was welcomed with opened arms when he came back. We missed Deon. We needed old Deon.

We need Collins. He makes plays. Maybe he wants to come back. Maybe he made a mistake and has a change in attitude.

Pointing out the truth upsets you. All players make mistakes in this defense.

1. We weren't against the cap when we traded for Branch. We didn't need to make significant roster cuts and/or restructures to financially fit him back on the team. How you aren't getting that point is beyond me.

2. Collins has a contract that is easy to get out of next season. Because of that, there's absolutely no incentive for him to take a pay cut if traded back here. So his $10 million base salary comes with him. You act like that's easy to come up with without cutting key players or hurting our cap flexibility in later seasons.

3. He didn't just "miss tackles" in our defense. He did his own thing. Remember the "do your job" speech Belichick gave the defense in the 2014 Ravens playoff game? Collins stopped listening to that. That's why he is gone. And now he's 5 times more expensive.
 
1. We weren't against the cap when we traded for Branch. We didn't need to make significant roster cuts and/or restructures to financially fit him back on the team. How you aren't getting that point is beyond me.

2. Collins has a contract that is easy to get out of next season. Because of that, there's absolutely no incentive for him to take a pay cut if traded back here. So his $10 million base salary comes with him. You act like that's easy to come up with without cutting key players or hurting our cap flexibility in later seasons.

3. He didn't just "miss tackles" in our defense. He did his own thing. Remember the "do your job" speech Belichick gave the defense in the 2014 Ravens playoff game? Collins stopped listening to that. That's why he is gone. And now he's 5 times more expensive.

1 Its a fact that Branch basically screwed the whole team that season because he was Bradys most trusted WR. Branch received a warm welcome back. In regards to the cap, I seem to recall at least 1 trading team eating some of the contract to trade a player.

2. Unless Collins wanted to stay in NE. The money is great but so is winning.

3. Free lancing was used to facilitate a trade.

If you believe that Collins would not help this defense I disagree 100%. He was a play maker in NE and the game boils down to winning a few plays here or there.
 
I see the situation a bit differently.

I think Deion wanted to be here. I think the NEP wanted to be here. The only reason Deion was traded was because of a fissure-sized disagreement with compensation. At no time did Deion act un-Patriot like on the field or in the locker room (the holdout doesn't count).

Branch refused to report to camp unless he got more money.

The Pats pleaded with him to at least show up to camp to discuss his contract and Branch refused. That is not a player who wanted to stay in NE.

Branch could not free lance on the field because he would not show up. Collins did not get in any trouble off field that I recall either.
 
Branch refused to report to camp unless he got more money.

The Pats pleaded with him to at least show up to camp to discuss his contract and Branch refused. That is not a player who wanted to stay in NE.

Branch could not free lance on the field because he would not show up. Collins did not get in any trouble off field that I recall either.
Contract negotiation tactics have nothing to do with determining if a player us being "Un-Patriot-like.".
 
1 Its a fact that Branch basically screwed the whole team that season because he was Bradys most trusted WR. Branch received a warm welcome back. In regards to the cap, I seem to recall at least 1 trading team eating some of the contract to trade a player.

2. Unless Collins wanted to stay in NE. The money is great but so is winning.

3. Free lancing was used to facilitate a trade.

If you believe that Collins would not help this defense I disagree 100%. He was a play maker in NE and the game boils down to winning a few plays here or there.

This Jamie Collins quote might provide insight into why Bill Belichick traded him

A few plays here or there, eh?

Collins burned by Daniels in up-and-down performance | NBC Sports Boston





Willie McGinest gives Jamie Collins advice on Twitter | Boston.com

 
I see the situation a bit differently.

I think Deion wanted to be here. I think the NEP wanted to be here. The only reason Deion was traded was because of a fissure-sized disagreement with compensation. At no time did Deion act un-Patriot like on the field or in the locker room (the holdout doesn't count).

Sucks we could of used him in '06. Could of been 4SB wins in 6yrs instead of 3/4.
 
Sucks we could of used him in '06. Could of been 4SB wins in 6yrs instead of 3/4.
If we are going to look at all the reasons why the could not bring it home in 06, imo that, the flu and no Rodney are top 3 reasons.
 
If we are going to look at all the reasons why the could not bring it home in 06, imo that, the flu and no Rodney are top 3 reasons.

Yea and blowing a 21-3 lead didn't help either, that piss me off almost as much as SB42.
 
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Sucks we could of used him in '06. Could of been 4SB wins in 6yrs instead of 3/4.

Branch screwed NE.

Remember that rag tag bunch of WRs in 2006? Gaffney, Gabriel, Caldwell, Chad Jackson. Troy Brown was the only keeper.

I was at the AFCC loss in Indianapolis. NE would have trashed the Bears in the Super Bowl.
 
Branch screwed NE.

Remember that rag tag bunch of WRs in 2006? Gaffney, Gabriel, Caldwell, Chad Jackson. Troy Brown was the only keeper.

I was at the AFCC loss in Indianapolis. NE would have trashed the Bears in the Super Bowl.

Brady = GOAT in '06 haha proof is in the pudding. Saw what happened when he finally got weapons the year after.
 
Yea and blowing a 21-3 lead didn't help either, that piss me of off almost as much as SB42.
Yep. That's where the lack of Deion's clutch 1st downs, a play on D and the flu all contributed (VW) to the collapse
 
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