How has Ben Watson looked this camp?

[carolinatony]

I never hear much about him good or bad. He had the potential to be All-Pro.
What do you expect from him this year?
thanks

 

[Brady to Brown]

I never hear much about him good or bad. He had the potential to be All-Pro.
What do you expect from him this year?
thanks

Nothing much from him or Thomas.

 

[pats_premi]

I never hear much about him good or bad. He had the potential to be All-Pro.
What do you expect from him this year?
thanks

Ben continues to be inconsistent. Like last year, he has been making some great catches ... and then dropping some easy ones.

I don't think he is going to be any better than what he has been the last couple of year.

 

[bradmahn]

Nothin big, good or bad. He's had a fair share of drops reported in some write-ups but that isn't something to be worried about.

I think a healthy Ben Watson gets 50+ receptions and 8 or so TDs this year.

 

[satz]

Most people from the preseason press indicate that he has developed his blocking alot and that is one of the reason they will comfortable with no blocking TE.

He came to the pats at 255 LB but i am sure 4 yrs later is a big bigger . I think most people want him to be gates or gonzo type TE but the problem is he is not build for fluid motion he is build with more muscle and that always comes at the expense of some fludity.He bigger than thomas and faster.carry alot of bulk means you cannot ask him to cut and pivot .their is no way around physics.

from zolak and sports night reports they only thing being mentioned is he has become a better blocker in the last 2yrs.

 

[drew4008]

I thought he was injured for a lot of camp?

 

[wdkantro2]

I think he'll continue to be a solid all around fit for this team. His blocking should be solid, he should come up with 50ish catches and some TDs. However, he could go from a "fit" to an excellent TE if he could improve the consistency of his hands. Unfortunately, thinking he'll do that is little more than wishful thinking. I'd be fine with 40-50 catches and a fully healthy season.

 

[Sicilian]

Most people from the preseason press indicate that he has developed his blocking alot and that is one of the reason they will comfortable with no blocking TE.

He came to the pats at 255 LB but i am sure 4 yrs later is a big bigger . I think most people want him to be gates or gonzo type TE but the problem is he is not build for fluid motion he is build with more muscle and that always comes at the expense of some fludity.He bigger than thomas and faster.carry alot of bulk means you cannot ask him to cut and pivot .their is no way around physics.

from zolak and sports night reports they only thing being mentioned is he has become a better blocker in the last 2yrs.

That's good enough for me. We've never really had a top threat TE in our super bowl years. We basically ask that they block well and make catches in the end zone. I think he's capable of both.

 

[jbb9s]

I'd be fine with 40-50 catches and a fully healthy season.

Really?

A first round draft pick going for 2.5 catches per game on the best passing team in the history of football.

You set the bar pretty low for the definition of "fine".

Always liked the guy for the Champ Bailey play but no one will really notice when his rookie contract expires.

 

[carolinatony]

"I think most people want him to be gates or gonzo type TE but the problem is he is not build for fluid motion he is build with more muscle and that always comes at the expense of some fludity.He bigger than thomas and faster.carry alot of bulk means you cannot ask him to cut and pivot .their is no way around physics."

I agreee with you.

 

[bradmahn]

Really?

A first round draft pick going for 2.5 catches per game on the best passing team in the history of football.

You set the bar pretty low for the definition of "fine".

Always liked the guy for the Champ Bailey play but no one will really notice when his rookie contract expires.

I expect a little more than forty to fifty receptions but 40+ receptions from a tight end is nothing to sneeze at. Last year there were just 9 in the league with more than fifty and of those 9, 4 (Winslow, Clark, Gates, and Cooley) are almost exclusively pass catching TEs.

A tight end who can block and catch fifty balls is a valuable player to have.

 

[jbb9s]

I expect a little more than forty to fifty receptions but 40+ receptions from a tight end is nothing to sneeze at. Last year there were just 9 in the league with more than fifty and of those 9, 4 (Winslow, Clark, Gates, and Cooley) are almost exclusively pass catching TEs.

A tight end who can block and catch fifty balls is a valuable player to have.

Out of the starting 32 TEs in the NFL, where does Watson rank in blocking ability?

 

[Deus Irae]

Out of the starting 32 TEs in the NFL, where does Watson rank in blocking ability?

How many catches should you expect a tight end to catch on a team with Moss, Welker, Faulk, Gaffney, Maroney, Jackson, Jordan and Morris? I ask because that should cover the team's #1-4 wr and 1-4 rb. So, given those weapons and a supposed 'need' to run more, how many catches does Watson need to be coming down with?

He had 36 in 12 games last season, which projects to 48 receptions over a full season. Last year was the most prolific offense in history, so let's see where these extra catches should come from (Using only past and 'future' top 4 guys):

Welker: 112
Moss: 98
Gaffney: 36
Faulk: 47
Stallworth: 46
Watson: 36
Maroney: 4
Morris: 6
Jackson: 0
Jordan: 0 (wasn't on team)

Now, realistically, we could see both Welker and Moss loss a few catches this season, and we'll definitely have Stallworth's 46 catches available to be divided up. We could also see Faulk catching a few less outlets now that the backfield is a bit more crowded (Jordan) and experienced (Maroney). Now....

Jackson (assuming he's the #4 wr) should catch more than 0 catches. Morris and Maroney will see their reception numbers increase if they stay healthy, as will Jordan. Gaffney, assuming he holds on to the #3 receiver role, should catch more than 36 as well.

So, I ask again, given all of the above....

Just how many catches is a realistic expectation of Watson in this offensive system?

 

[wdkantro2]

Really?

A first round draft pick going for 2.5 catches per game on the best passing team in the history of football.

You set the bar pretty low for the definition of "fine".

Always liked the guy for the Champ Bailey play but no one will really notice when his rookie contract expires.

I think it's been determined that Watson, as much as I love his tools, will not be a star. Are there really many more catches to go around to a tight end than 40 or 50? We're expecting 90+ from Welker and Moss each and I'd expect 50+ from Gaffney. Throw in 35ish for Faulk, 20 each maybe for Maroney and Morris...I really don't think there's a whole lot more there.

 

[jbb9s]

How many catches should you expect a tight end to catch on a team with Moss, Welker, Faulk, Gaffney, Maroney, Jackson, Jordan and Morris? I ask because that should cover the team's #1-4 wr and 1-4 rb. So, given those weapons and a supposed 'need' to run more, how many catches does Watson need to be coming down with?

He had 36 in 12 games last season, which projects to 48 receptions over a full season. Last year was the most prolific offense in history, so let's see where these extra catches should come from (Using only past and 'future' top 4 guys):

Welker: 112
Moss: 98
Gaffney: 36
Faulk: 47
Stallworth: 46
Watson: 36
Maroney: 4
Morris: 6
Jackson: 0
Jordan: 0 (wasn't on team)

Now, realistically, we could see both Welker and Moss loss a few catches this season, and we'll definitely have Stallworth's 46 catches available to be divided up. We could also see Faulk catching a few less outlets now that the backfield is a bit more crowded (Jordan) and experienced (Maroney). Now....

Jackson (assuming he's the #4 wr) should catch more than 0 catches. Morris and Maroney will see their reception numbers increase if they stay healthy, as will Jordan. Gaffney, assuming he holds on to the #3 receiver role, should catch more than 36 as well.

So, I ask again, given all of the above....

Just how many catches is a realistic expectation of Watson in this offensive system?

I think this is a simple mix up of "cause and effect." You think all the catches by Welker and Moss are taking away catches from Watson and I think all the drops by Watson over the years are giving Welker and Moss more balls by #12.

I'd also add that since Moss was essentially keeping not only the opposing team's best corner back and safety pre-occupied on every passing down, a TE might even flourish, kind of like how Welker did, and grab more and more catches.

Would you throw it to Watson in the end zone with the game on the line after the Baltimore drop almost cost this team a perfect regular season?

None of what I already wrote even matters because in a year before Moss, Welker and Stallworth joined the team, Watson had less than 50 catches and he was usually the receiving tight end next to the blocking specialist Graham.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that Watson shouldn't be expected to continue to catch four passes a game. I also am impressed by his improvement each year as a blocker. I also expect some catches from our #2 and/or #3 tight ends, from our #4 and/or #5 WR's, and from our 4-5 running backs. I do see Watson as being a solid, dependable member of the offense, and as a decent blocker. Given the rest of our offense, that's all we need from our #1 tight end.

The bottom line is that we have lot of decent receivers after Moss, Welker, Gaffney, Faulk and Watson (our 5 receiver set and our top 5 receivers).

How many catches should you expect a tight end to catch on a team with Moss, Welker, Faulk, Gaffney, Maroney, Jackson, Jordan and Morris? I ask because that should cover the team's #1-4 wr and 1-4 rb. So, given those weapons and a supposed 'need' to run more, how many catches does Watson need to be coming down with?

He had 36 in 12 games last season, which projects to 48 receptions over a full season. Last year was the most prolific offense in history, so let's see where these extra catches should come from (Using only past and 'future' top 4 guys):

Welker: 112
Moss: 98
Gaffney: 36
Faulk: 47
Stallworth: 46
Watson: 36
Maroney: 4
Morris: 6
Jackson: 0
Jordan: 0 (wasn't on team)

Now, realistically, we could see both Welker and Moss loss a few catches this season, and we'll definitely have Stallworth's 46 catches available to be divided up. We could also see Faulk catching a few less outlets now that the backfield is a bit more crowded (Jordan) and experienced (Maroney). Now....

Jackson (assuming he's the #4 wr) should catch more than 0 catches. Morris and Maroney will see their reception numbers increase if they stay healthy, as will Jordan. Gaffney, assuming he holds on to the #3 receiver role, should catch more than 36 as well.

So, I ask again, given all of the above....

Just how many catches is a realistic expectation of Watson in this offensive system?

 

[Deus Irae]

I think this is a simple mix up of "cause and effect." You think all the catches by Welker and Moss are taking away catches from Watson and I think all the drops by Watson over the years are giving Welker and Moss more balls by #12.

I'd also add that since Moss was essentially keeping not only the opposing team's best corner back and safety pre-occupied on every passing down, a TE might even flourish, kind of like how Welker did, and grab more and more catches.

Would you throw it to Watson in the end zone with the game on the line after the Baltimore drop almost cost this team a perfect regular season?

None of what I already wrote even matters because in a year before Moss, Welker and Stallworth joined the team, Watson had less than 50 catches and he was usually the receiving tight end next to the blocking specialist Graham.

But your argument runs counter to the reality. Watson only played in 48% of the team's offensive snaps last season (Moss was on the field for 88% of them), which clearly limits the number of catches he can even have an opportunity to make.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/01/02/stellar_timing_pattern/

Also, check out some breakdowns done by Football Outsiders:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te.php

You'll find that Watson was ranked #9 in DVAR and #7 in DVOA, while having a 73% catch rate which was 6th among the top 15 ranked tight ends.

As for Watson having fewer than 50 catches the "year before", that's just plain disingenuous of you. Watson had 49 catches in 13 games. What's next, "Welker couldn't even pull down 113 catches last season!"?

 

[Ichiro]

What is most disappointing to me is that Watson has never refined his route running or overall awareness in the passing game. He does not always catch the ball with his hands. He does not come back to catch the ball. He does not sit down in zone coverage well. He has great speed, but it doesn't seem to translate into separating from defenders.

Watson is a good TE, but I think people look at his intelligence, strength and athleticism and think it should translate into being an all-pro type player. Sadly, I don't think he will transform into an pro-bowl TE. He just doesn't have the instincts.

Imagine what kind of offense we would have with a Gates/Witten tight end! That's what makes the development of this position during the Brady years so frustrating.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Really?

A first round draft pick going for 2.5 catches per game on the best passing team in the history of football.

You set the bar pretty low for the definition of "fine".

Always liked the guy for the Champ Bailey play but no one will really notice when his rookie contract expires.

40-50 catches, for a tight end, isn't enough???

I wonder what the expectations are at the secret underground Belicave. He habitually stockpiles tight ends; yet he never seems to plop one in an Antonio Gates role.

I can tell you 2 things:

1) Knowing BB, if someone said "hey Bill Antonio Gates wants to come over and SD only wants a 5th round pick," he'd likely jump at it.

2) Also knowing BB, he wants the guys he home-builds to be football players. Blocking and receiving. And probably 100 catches in a year from a TE would mean he had some piss-poor receivers, regardless of how prolific the passing attack has become.

3) Don't confuse the prolific passing offense with a limitless number of catches to spread around. You take away the 112 the slot receiver snagged, and the 98 Moss caught, and replace them with average receivers, adn you go from 210 receptions to say 150. That leaves a lot more room for more than 50 going to a tight end. And indeed that's just what happened in KC and in SD. Not to mention that oh yeah, we had a not-too-shabby X receiver ("#2" in Stallworth, and then another one in Gaffney.) No need to discuss the 4 and 5 receivers in the really wacky sets. Suffice it to say, you can only throw the ball so many times, even when you have blowouts for half of your games.

My conclusion: Watson's pretty much doing what he's supposed to so long as he catches whats thrown to him and he can stay on the field. If these things prove to be monumental issues, well okay, then there's a problem. Otherwise, I doubt very seriously he tops 50 catches, and I doubt very seriously that that metric will be an issue.

PFnV

 

[jbb9s]

But your argument runs counter to the reality. Watson only played in 48% of the team's offensive snaps last season (Moss was on the field for 88% of them), which clearly limits the number of catches he can even have an opportunity to make.

As for Watson having fewer than 50 catches the "year before", that's just plain disingenuous of you. Watson had 49 catches in 13 games. What's next, "Welker couldn't even pull down 113 catches last season!"?

49 is less than 50. Sorry dude, what I said was factual.

If you want me to rephrase I'll take a shot.

"Watson had about 50 catches the year before and the 3 wide receivers were the worst three ever to be fielded by a SB contender so its pretty unimaginable that a receiving tight end (with Graham taking primary blocking assignments) couldn't make more of an impact."

the "year before" was referenced because it was before Welker and Moss and Stallworth were signed. Your original post made it sound like since these 3 dudes are so crazy good, of course there isn't enough pig skin to go around..and I was just saying that before these guys came, its not like Watson was tearing it up while Bug Eyes and Troy were running routes out there.