How do you beat Steelers

[SoonerPatriot]

We have no chance to beat the Steelers. Nor do we have any chance at all for offensive success the remainder of this season because we no longer have Randy Moss.

*The prevailing mood on PatsFans today

 

[pherein]

I wouldn't hang up the muskets just yet. Believe me we know what being beaten by the Browns felt like. It happened 3x to us this season. Browns,Cardinals,and Falcons all beatable teams. All teams we out scored, but lost because of simple errors and ball security. Forget the Browns game, it was a mess but move on, Im sure your players have already.

Its interesting to look at the 2 teams compared.

Saints seem inconsistent, but under the surface they are only having problems on offense and have improved greatly on defense.

Offence

Ranked #14 (never thought Id see that day,lol)
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

OL ranked # 6 ( was ranked at #22 until after the carolina game, so we are making progress)
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE LINES

OL fell from #1-4 for the last 4 years to #22 at the beginning of the season = This has killed the run game, reduced the long ball, and hurried the offense creating TO's.

Brees has a record 12 ints and 6 fumbles after 9 games = Browns & Cardinals scored only 1 TD combined ,but racked up points because of the TOs

Kicking has fallen to 46% = Falcons win by a missed FG at the 10 yrd line.

Defense is posting record stats and is very consistent

Ranks #12
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

DL ranks #16
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 DEFENSIVE LINES

Yards per game- 3rd
Points per game- 5th
Yards per play- 4th
3rd down percentage- 4th
Fumbles- 10th
Pass defense- 1st
Completion percentage- 11th
Yards per pass- 3rd
Passing TD's- 2nd
Interceptions- 22nd
20+ yard passes- 3rd
40+ yard passes- 5th
Sacks- 12th
QB rating- 5th
Rush defense- 17th
Yards per rush- 18th
Rush TD's- 15th
20+ yard rushes- 14th
40+ yard rushes- 13th



Patriots seem to have the opposite troubles

Offense pretty consistent

NE ranked as #1 with a low TO rate.
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

OL ranked at #4
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE LINES


Defense

ranked at #27
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

DL is ranked # 27
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 DEFENSIVE LINES

If we could merge your offense with our defense it would be a heck of a team at this point.



Steelers

Offense Not that great, middle of the pack

Ranked #16
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

OL ranked #22 This is their Achilles heel, and how we beat the Cardinals in the payoffs. Cards had the #26 ranked OL,Vikes #20th
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE LINES

Defense Pretty dangerious
Ranked #2
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

DL ranked #1
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 DEFENSIVE LINES


Game plan:

The saints abandoned the run ( pointed out by some smart posters here, you cant run on the steelers), but tried 21 run plays to keep the Steelers off balance. The majority of 1st downs where short pass plays. SP used the same west coasted offense we attacked the colts with in the SB. Short pass to setup the run or screen. Opting for field position over FG's.

1st downs 19 = 3 rushing and 14 passing

Game stats
NFL Game Center: Pittsburgh Steelers at New Orleans Saints - 2010 Week 8

Defensively we Blitzed, attacked, and went to one to one cover. GW wanted to hit them in the mouth or lose. You can see receivers open in these clips.
NFL Videos: Playbook: Saints' D vs. Steelers' O


that Patriots offense is playing way more consistent than we are at this point, so you should be able to do the same thing we did and have 3-10 pts more than we got. Say 23-30 pts. I think your defense needs to risk the loss and blitz with every free man you can afford to equal one on one man coverage.

IF the Patriots can achieve a 50% 3rd down rate ( we had 43%) and SP can can win the field position war, this game is very winnable. Im not seeing the doom and gloom some are seeing. I mean if our 14th ranked defense can make them look that bad?

One of the best offenses vs one of the best defenses= cool matchup
middle of the pack offense vs a inconsistent defense = need to be very aggressive attack their weakness OL

 

[karran_s]

We have no chance to beat the Steelers. Nor do we have any chance at all for offensive success the remainder of this season because we no longer have Randy Moss.

*The prevailing mood on PatsFans today

Boy... that's great.. "No chance"?? That's stupid... every team in the NFL has a chance to beat another team ... there are no gimmes this year as we don't have a dominant team. While the Steelers are always tough at home, don't be surprised to see the Patriots come to play on Sunday and squeak out a narrow "win". I think this team has more in it than people are giving credit for.

My recipe for success.. start Woodhead and run the ball as much as you can.. Tom needs to be more consistent in his throws and I'm sure he'll be working on it during this week.

I'm expecting to see a motivated Pats team next week that will fight and claw its way to victory on Sunday.. Against the Browns, the entire team didn't show up and the second half was a joke. Well, one bad loss doesn't make a season and I'm more inclined to believe that they will be back to play and this time, it will be to win.

 

[pherein]

Boy... that's great.. "No chance"?? That's stupid... every team in the NFL has a chance to beat another team ... there are no gimmes this year as we don't have a dominant team. While the Steelers are always tough at home, don't be surprised to see the Patriots come to play on Sunday and squeak out a narrow "win". I think this team has more in it than people are giving credit for.

My recipe for success.. start Woodhead and run the ball as much as you can.. Tom needs to be more consistent in his throws and I'm sure he'll be working on it during this week.

I'm expecting to see a motivated Pats team next week that will fight and claw its way to victory on Sunday.. Against the Browns, the entire team didn't show up and the second half was a joke. Well, one bad loss doesn't make a season and I'm more inclined to believe that they will be back to play and this time, it will be to win.

I would worry, and the fans have the right to blow off some steam. But as you said very well, your a good team, all the stats show that, and one bad loss dosnt define a teams season. We know better than that,eer now,we've had 3. Your response, Im sure, to this game, will be good, it always has been in the past.

 

[mgteich]

I guess someone hasn't learned the patsfans.com mantra.

1) Our defense is solid and will be great.
2) Our offense is having an aweful year.
3) Our OL is terrible.

.Offense pretty consistent

NE ranked as #1 with a low TO rate.
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

OL ranked at #4
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE LINES


Defense

ranked at #27
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

DL is ranked # 27
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 DEFENSIVE LINES




.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Boy... that's great.. "No chance"?? That's stupid... every team in the NFL has a chance to beat another team ... there are no gimmes this year as we don't have a dominant team. While the Steelers are always tough at home, don't be surprised to see the Patriots come to play on Sunday and squeak out a narrow "win". I think this team has more in it than people are giving credit for.

My recipe for success.. start Woodhead and run the ball as much as you can.. Tom needs to be more consistent in his throws and I'm sure he'll be working on it during this week.

I'm expecting to see a motivated Pats team next week that will fight and claw its way to victory on Sunday.. Against the Browns, the entire team didn't show up and the second half was a joke. Well, one bad loss doesn't make a season and I'm more inclined to believe that they will be back to play and this time, it will be to win.

For the love of God, it was sarcasm. Calm down.

 

[Uncle Rico]

We have no chance to beat the Steelers. Nor do we have any chance at all for offensive success the remainder of this season because we no longer have Randy Moss.

*The prevailing mood on PatsFans today

You forgot to mention that, per some on this board Sunday, the Patriots' only hope is to bench Brady, Ingram, Mankins, Mayo, Spikes, Tate and Gronkowski for the remainder of the season. Apparently once they do that they'll put an end to this awful one-game losing streak.

 

[pherein]

I guess someone hasn't learned the patsfans.com mantra.

1) Our defense is solid and will be great.
2) Our offense is having an aweful year.
3) Our OL is terrible.

.Offense pretty consistent

NE ranked as #1 with a low TO rate.
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

OL ranked at #4
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE LINES


Defense

ranked at #27
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

DL is ranked # 27
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 DEFENSIVE LINES




.

lol, not meaning to cause any trouble mgteich , just trying to point out what us other teams , that have to play you, look at. Offensively you pretty dangerous.

 

[lillloyd]

I gotta say, as a Steelers fan, I'm a bit surprised at some of the stuff written in this thread. I mean, you guys are 6-2 as well, and let's face it, you've had our number over the years (throwing out the Matt Cassell game a couple of years ago). I know the Browns game was a bad loss, but bad losses happen--even in SB years. The talent is pretty close overall in the NFL these days. Plus I don't think the Browns are actually a bad team, they just have a lousy record...

As far as beating the Steelers goes, we're good but hardly invincible, and the Pats have exactly the type of team to exploit our defense: excellent, patient coaching, very accurate thrower, good underneath options and a quick-hitting passing attack. Spread us out, force our OLBs into coverage, throw 40-50 times (mostly 3 step quick throws), and run only as a changeup. Cincy actually had the right idea tonight, going no-huddle and keeping Hampton off the field. BMac can be had in coverage, and no matter how much the announcers gush I honestly don't think TP has had that great of a year. He's made spectacular plays, but has also missed tackles and made some poor decisions in coverage.

FWIW we may be without a couple of starting linemen on both sides of the ball. Everyone has injuries this time of year of course, but I would think of all coaches BB would be able to exploit this.

It's kind of odd from a non-NE fan's point of view, I really don't know too much about the Patriots personnel these days because of all the turnover. It seems like they have a lot of good young talent (Chung, Mayo, Hernandez), but a lot of the marquee names have left. I have a ton of respect for your coaching staff so it wouldn't surprise me at all to see your defense suddenly put it all together at some point during the year.

I'd probably pick Pitt in this game if I had to bet it, but not by much. I really think your offense's style matches up well against our D. I'm guessing (hoping!) the difference will be our pressure, which is always a lot better at home under the prime time lights. Again I know relatively little about your OL but I have heard that the tackles (Light) have struggled a bit in pass protection this year. However if your OL can protect well, there are definitely holes to be found in our secondary.

That all said, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if NE took the game; it's just one of those deals where one team (NE) just matches up well against the other. Plus you guys are coming off a tough loss (isn't BB's record after losses like .900 or something?!), and we're coming off a short week.

Good luck next week, hopefully there will be no injuries! I wouldn't sweat the Browns loss too much, as long as you have BB and Brady I think you'll be in the mix for a deep run.

lillloyd

 

[pherein]

I gotta say, as a Steelers fan, I'm a bit surprised at some of the stuff written in this thread. I mean, you guys are 6-2 as well, and let's face it, you've had our number over the years (throwing out the Matt Cassell game a couple of years ago). I know the Browns game was a bad loss, but bad losses happen--even in SB years. The talent is pretty close overall in the NFL these days. Plus I don't think the Browns are actually a bad team, they just have a lousy record...

As far as beating the Steelers goes, we're good but hardly invincible, and the Pats have exactly the type of team to exploit our defense: excellent, patient coaching, very accurate thrower, good underneath options and a quick-hitting passing attack. Spread us out, force our OLBs into coverage, throw 40-50 times (mostly 3 step quick throws), and run only as a changeup. Cincy actually had the right idea tonight, going no-huddle and keeping Hampton off the field. BMac can be had in coverage, and no matter how much the announcers gush I honestly don't think TP has had that great of a year. He's made spectacular plays, but has also missed tackles and made some poor decisions in coverage.

FWIW we may be without a couple of starting linemen on both sides of the ball. Everyone has injuries this time of year of course, but I would think of all coaches BB would be able to exploit this.

It's kind of odd from a non-NE fan's point of view, I really don't know too much about the Patriots personnel these days because of all the turnover. It seems like they have a lot of good young talent (Chung, Mayo, Hernandez), but a lot of the marquee names have left. I have a ton of respect for your coaching staff so it wouldn't surprise me at all to see your defense suddenly put it all together at some point during the year.

I'd probably pick Pitt in this game if I had to bet it, but not by much. I really think your offense's style matches up well against our D. I'm guessing (hoping!) the difference will be our pressure, which is always a lot better at home under the prime time lights. Again I know relatively little about your OL but I have heard that the tackles (Light) have struggled a bit in pass protection this year. However if your OL can protect well, there are definitely holes to be found in our secondary.

That all said, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if NE took the game; it's just one of those deals where one team (NE) just matches up well against the other. Plus you guys are coming off a tough loss (isn't BB's record after losses like .900 or something?!), and we're coming off a short week.

Good luck next week, hopefully there will be no injuries! I wouldn't sweat the Browns loss too much, as long as you have BB and Brady I think you'll be in the mix for a deep run.

lillloyd

excellent post lillloyd
, answer a question from a Saints fan to a Steelers fans. Are you pretty sure the Patriots have a good team this year? Maybe top #5, and if not why? and what do you think they need to do to beat the Steelers?

We beat you but as you said, and its correct, sometimes the best team doesn't win . Maybe the best didn't win that day, either. Help the Fans here to know what we did right to win that game, thanks

You have guts walking into this forum and being civil, what you said mades sense, hoping this continues. Id say good luck but this is a team I want to face in the SB, completely respect good steeler fans like you, your far and few between, good luck.

 

[lillloyd]

that Patriots offense is playing way more consistent than we are at this point, so you should be able to do the same thing we did and have 3-10 pts more than we got. Say 23-30 pts. I think your defense needs to risk the loss and blitz with every free man you can afford to equal one on one man coverage.

IF the Patriots can achieve a 50% 3rd down rate ( we had 43%) and SP can can win the field position war, this game is very winnable. Im not seeing the doom and gloom some are seeing. I mean if our 14th ranked defense can make them look that bad?

I agree with the general gist of your argument here. Pitt definitely isn't unbeatable, and the Saints' approach two weeks ago was a good one. Congrats on that win btw, it appears that was the jump start you guys needed? If I were playing Pitt, I'd run only just enough to keep the D honest, and wouldn't be shy about chucking it 40 or 50 times. And yup I'd blitz the hell out of our line (particularly if Starks and Kemo are out) to make them prove they can handle blitz pickup.

I think the main difference is the venue; we're finally getting home after a 3-game road trip, whereas the Saints game was a road game in New Orleans, in basically a playoff game atmosphere (plus all the Halloween nuttiness LOL). Our D "travels well" and is good on the road, but it's far better at home where the crowd noise kicks up the effectiveness of the blitz. (Think about how much better your blitzes were in the home atmosphere 2 weeks ago!) I think getting 23-30 points against our D at home would be quite an accomplishment...then again, if anyone can do it, it would be the Pats.

We'll see what BB draws up on defense. On the face of it, I'd think the Pats would have a tough time matching the blitzing success of Gregg Williams at home; it's a road game for the Pats, and I don't think their D has quite the personnel or scheme that Williams does (at least it's not fully developed yet). But with BB who knows?

As an aside, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the Browns for once again stirring up a hornet's nest, just before we take the field against a good (and now completely pissed off) team. I'd much rather have the Pats waltz in having pasted the Browns 35-0 and riding a 5-game winning streak.

 

[lillloyd]

excellent post lillloyd
, answer a question from a Saints fan to a Steelers fans. Are you pretty sure the Patriots have a good team this year? Maybe top #5, and if not why? and what do you think they need to do to beat the Steelers?

We beat you but as you said, and its correct, sometimes the best team doesn't win . Maybe the best didn't win that day, either. Help the Fans here to know what we did right to win that game, thanks

You have guts walking into this forum and being civil, what you said mades sense, hoping this continues. Id say good luck but this is a team I want to face in the SB, completely respect good steeler fans like you, your far and few between, good luck.

IMHO there's not a truly dominant team this year, at least not so far. There are 8-10 teams that are really tough outs at home. If this game were in NE, I'd probably bet the Patriots...but it's in Pitt and I think the home-field advantage will probably be enough to get by.

Even if the Pats weren't 6-2 and didn't have Tom Brady or BB, Steelers fans would have a healthy respect for them due to all the tough losses they've handed us over the years. But even if their defense hasn't been as good this year, they still have a prolific offense. Teams like the Saints and Pats have the requisite quality passing attacks (and excellent coaching) to attack our D. I would even argue that the Pats are a bit better-suited to this as they seem to be less of a down-the-field attack than the Saints (although obviously Bush's absence has figured heavily into that). Teams that are patient with underneath, quick, accurate passes can actually move and control the ball on us.

As far as "best" teams and "top 5" teams go, it's still too early to tell. 8 weeks is an eternity in the NFL, long enough for seemingly "dominant" teams to go south and "mediocre" teams to hit their stride. We were 6-2 last year; 5 weeks later we were 6-7. For all I know, Oakland will win out and take the home field in the AFC. (I know that seems preposterous, but that's no more preposterous than the Rams in '99, or even the Steelers in '05 at 7-5, having to win out and win all three playoff games on the road).

But yeah, at this point I'd say NE is squarely in the 6-8 team jumble that is at the top of the NFL...in week *8*

 

[jcdavey]

this is the kinda game i've seen the pats win before, but also the kind i've seen them get blown out in

pats are a real enigma

 

[pherein]

I agree with the general gist of your argument here. Pitt definitely isn't unbeatable, and the Saints' approach two weeks ago was a good one. Congrats on that win btw, it appears that was the jump start you guys needed? If I were playing Pitt, I'd run only just enough to keep the D honest, and wouldn't be shy about chucking it 40 or 50 times. And yup I'd blitz the hell out of our line (particularly if Starks and Kemo are out) to make them prove they can handle blitz pickup.

I think the main difference is the venue; we're finally getting home after a 3-game road trip, whereas the Saints game was a road game in New Orleans, in basically a playoff game atmosphere (plus all the Halloween nuttiness LOL). Our D "travels well" and is good on the road, but it's far better at home where the crowd noise kicks up the effectiveness of the blitz. (Think about how much better your blitzes were in the home atmosphere 2 weeks ago!) I think getting 23-30 points against our D at home would be quite an accomplishment...then again, if anyone can do it, it would be the Pats.

We'll see what BB draws up on defense. On the face of it, I'd think the Pats would have a tough time matching the blitzing success of Gregg Williams at home; it's a road game for the Pats, and I don't think their D has quite the personnel or scheme that Williams does (at least it's not fully developed yet). But with BB who knows?

As an aside, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the Browns for once again stirring up a hornet's nest, just before we take the field against a good (and now completely pissed off) team. I'd much rather have the Pats waltz in having pasted the Browns 35-0 and riding a 5-game winning streak.

It was a lucky win , but thanks. jumpstart , hmm . It was good to fight a worthy team and be fortunate enough to win, I think. Is kemo out?
Ya most don't get the Dome noise till they travel there. Tho GW is pretty good, BB is a much more experienced DC.

Not to be rude, but I cant see the Patriots defense stoping your offense, but than I dont see you stoping the #1 offense Pats, when you had problems with us and the Bengals.
This is going be a pretty interesting game to watch. LOL, with the browns, your right it would be better for you if they won.

So answer me this, can the Patriots defense stop your offense?

 

[pherein]

I would even argue that the Pats are a bit better-suited to this as they seem to be less of a down-the-field attack than the Saints (although obviously Bush's absence has figured heavily into that). Teams that are patient with underneath, quick, accurate passes can actually move and control the ball on us.

I think this is an excellent point, they are better at the short field than we are.

 

[Patjew]

Thanks for the Saints and Steelers fans for keeping this thread less insane.

 

[pherein]

IMHO there's not a truly dominant team this year, at least not so far. There are 8-10 teams that are really tough outs at home. If this game were in NE, I'd probably bet the Patriots...but it's in Pitt and I think the home-field advantage will probably be enough to get by.


But yeah, at this point I'd say NE is squarely in the 6-8 team jumble that is at the top of the NFL...in week *8*

agreed, GB looked great vs a paper tiger, but couldn't get a TD vs the Jets. Jets look bad on offense and barely beat the Lions. Giant look great vs the Seahawks but couldn't pass to save there lives in the 1st 4 games. Saints create TO's. lol

Seems a free for all, for teams like the Falcons and Vikings , who are overrated to have a shot.

So, if not to much trouble, explain how your #1-2 defense ( and they are good) stops the #1-2 offense (also very good), When you didn't stop our #14 Saints offense?

I agree with most of your points, your obviously a smart person, interested to hear what you have to say.

 

[Brady2Welker]

Thanks for the Saints and Steelers fans for keeping this thread less insane.

True Dat Patjew.




That said, I think the Steelers are a team that can be beaten utilizing our passing attack, assuming we have good execution. The Steelers lack a killer instinct this year in putting games away, if we're within a score by the second half we have a good chance of coming back.

 

[pherein]

True Dat Patjew.




That said, I think the Steelers are a team that can be beaten utilizing our passing attack, assuming we have good execution. The Steelers lack a killer instinct this year in putting games away, if we're within a score by the second half we have a good chance of coming back.

on offense maybe, on defense make no doubt the killer instinct is there. They are Very very dangerous on defense.I think Brees out thought them sometimes,, but 20pts isnt much. Like the Jets I saw last year, they really might have the best defense this year.

What was the panthers 4th in the NFL and Brees cut them up 34 -3, Steelers are dangerious on defense. And your offense is better, you are both very dangerous teams.

 

[andrewgarrr]

Gruden kept pointing out, and I seem to agree, that the depth of the safeties and the blitz left the middle of the field very open. Hopefully, the Patriots coaches noticed this and will implement some slants to Welker and medium crossing patterns over the middle with Gronk and Hernandez.

Running against them looks tough, I could see us abandoning it early. Hopefully we keep the offense balanced with the diversity in the passing game.