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"Hit him when he has the ball, hit him when he doesn't have the ball"

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Ok so if the ref made the right call and then Brady QB sneaked it in from the one we took apart the panthers defense?

There are plenty of reasons under your scenario to think that we'd have took apart the Panthers defense on a reasonable level:

--29 first downs, scoring on 5/7 possessions, 27 total offensive points, and 400 total yards with more than 50% of the time of possession. Brady also had a completion rate of 29/40 overall, or close to 75%.

That's a pretty solid offensive day against the #1 scoring defense who gives up 12.8 pts per game...especially on the road against a defense of that caliber.
 
But a long drive or a short has pretty much the same result, points.

Thats what I'm trying to say. The inclousion of time of possession and 'keeping them on the sidelines' just clouds the argument. The offense needs to score whether it does it quickly or methodically.

Yes, but aren't your chances of only having to score 3 TD's and maybe a FG (as CAR did to us) much better than being forced to score, say 5 TD's and a couple of FG's?

CAR knew that they probably didn't want to get into a shootout with us due to being forced to execute perfectly on more drives which would result in TD's to try and keep up, which is exactly what you seem to be advocating. They chose to try and limit the possessions instead, thus having to only score a few TD's to win the game.

The odds are going to drop a ton if your offense is going to need to score 5-6 TD's and 45 points. Isn't that a no-brainer?

I would think it'd be much more realistic to score on 4/6 possessions, than say 7/9 possessions; which is likely why it's such a common gamplan vs teams who have great offenses in the way that they attempt to limit their possessions and keep them on the sidelines.

Your argument seems to be that either way you'll need to only have 2 possessions where you don't score, but you aren't taking into account the fact that you'd need to execute perfectly on a higher volume, which is going to lower your odds of actually happening.
 
There's no threat there, just a simple statement. Further, there can't be a threat because I don't have the power to ban you. You called me naive because I took the same stance that former NFL players have. That's just asinine.

Actually, I said that either you're naive, or you haven't mastered understanding the English language. And I stand by the notion that it is certainly one or the other .... Well, there's actually a 3rd option that you're just trying to be a ****.....stop acting like you know the mindset of the typical mindset of the nfl player.....you obviously don't
 
I said this yesterday.
I don't think though that it's about beating him up but about disrupting the timing of the offense.
I would flex the lb on welkers side out to jam him. Not to cover him but to jam him and hold him up at the line then go to whatever coverage assignment he has. The short pass is the crux of Denver's offense. Timing is the key. This disrupts it and also reinforces against the wr screen that a lot of their big plays come from.

It's about beating him up. Watch the AFCCG again and you will see he gets hit a lot. It led to the two biggest drops of the game.
 
There are plenty of reasons under your scenario to think that we'd have took apart the Panthers defense on a reasonable level:

--29 first downs, scoring on 5/7 possessions, 27 total offensive points, and 400 total yards with more than 50% of the time of possession. Brady also had a completion rate of 29/40 overall, or close to 75%.

That's a pretty solid offensive day against the #1 scoring defense who gives up 12.8 pts per game...especially on the road against a defense of that caliber.

We seem to have a disagreement on the gap between nice, solid day and 'taking apart the other team'.
 
It's about beating him up. Watch the AFCCG again and you will see he gets hit a lot. It led to the two biggest drops of the game.

I don't agree with your cause and effect. In any event, I am talking about stopping the offense, taking it out of its rhythm, making it do things it doesnt want to do, not devising a plan hoping to give Welker alligator arms on a play.
 
Yes, but aren't your chances of only having to score 3 TD's and maybe a FG (as CAR did to us) much better than being forced to score, say 5 TD's and a couple of FG's?
Its all relative. If you try to score 4 times in 8 drives vs 6 times in 12 drives, it is really the same thing, and most importantly, the other team has the same numbers to work with. Limiting their possessions also limits your own.

CAR knew that they probably didn't want to get into a shootout with us due to being forced to execute perfectly on more drives which would result in TD's to try and keep up, which is exactly what you seem to be advocating. They chose to try and limit the possessions instead, thus having to only score a few TD's to win the game.
Carolina didnt set out to limit possessions. By the facts you could equally argue the Patriots didn't.
This is exactly what I am talking about. What is a 'shootout'? In any game you have to match and exceed the other teams scores to win. A bad offense doesn't help its chances to outscore a better offense by having fewer opportunities.
You don't have to execute perfectly because of the level of the score, but because of the gap. Being down 42-28 is really no different than being down 28-14.

Your argument that limiting possessions is good because you have to score less ignores that you have fewer chances to.
Having to score 3 TDs in 6 possessions is no different than needing to score 5 in 10.
If you suck and don't want to get blown out, then by all means try to eat clock, that way you may eliminate a couple possessions for each team and lose 35-0 instead of 49-0, but it does nothing to help you win.

The odds are going to drop a ton if your offense is going to need to score 5-6 TD's and 45 points. Isn't that a no-brainer?
No because you are working with a different amount of possessions.

I would think it'd be much more realistic to score on 4/6 possessions, than say 7/9 possessions;
Of course because you are asking for 3/3 on the additional possesions, which conflates the argument.



which is likely why it's such a common gamplan vs teams who have great offenses in the way that they attempt to limit their possessions and keep them on the sidelines.
But you limit your own. Its like saying lets only play 3 quarters. How does that help?

Your argument seems to be that either way you'll need to only have 2 possessions where you don't score,
My argument is nothing like that.

but you aren't taking into account the fact that you'd need to execute perfectly on a higher volume, which is going to lower your odds of actually happening.
No I am saying something quite different. I am saying that playing a game of 6 possessions each, or 9, or 13 doesn't make a difference, you must score on those possessions, whether it is quick or slow for them to be effective.
Again, lets say 'quick play' is 3 possessions per quarter each. And 'keeping the other offense off the field' as a strategy reduces that to 2.
You have turned the game from 12 possessions each to 8, or, in other words, called the 12 possession game after about 10 minutes of the 3rd quarter. That did nothing to tip the odds of winning to the 'lesser offense'.
 
We seem to have a disagreement on the gap between nice, solid day and 'taking apart the other team'.

Fair enough. I just remember during the offseason you felt pretty strongly that our offense faired pretty well in the playoff loss to Baltimore. You stated an offensive output of 400 yards or so, a certain number of first downs, the fact that we had the ball in what normally would be considered FG range (inside their 35) seven times...and yet we really only came away with 13 pts.

I'm seeing something that is on the same level myself, if not much better--at least under the scenario that you proposed (having the penalty stick, ball at the one and scoring the GW touchdown). The numbers, scoring percentage on possessions, first downs, yardage, etc all seem to be the same if not better, and we were up against the #1 scoring defense last Monday night. I'm personally not seeing much of a difference between the 2 examples myself, but I respect the fact that we have different opinions.

No I am saying something quite different. I am saying that playing a game of 6 possessions each, or 9, or 13 doesn't make a difference, you must score on those possessions, whether it is quick or slow for them to be effective.
Again, lets say 'quick play' is 3 possessions per quarter each. And 'keeping the other offense off the field' as a strategy reduces that to 2.
You have turned the game from 12 possessions each to 8, or, in other words, called the 12 possession game after about 10 minutes of the 3rd quarter. That did nothing to tip the odds of winning to the 'lesser offense'.

Again, I think we have a difference of opinions--nothing more.

I understand what you're saying, don't get me wrong. I just think that by needing to score a higher number of TD's/points overall, you are decreasing your odds of winning the game. You seem to feel differently.

I'd much rather only have to score 3 TD's/1 FG (like CAR did Monday night), as opposed to say, 5 TD's/2 FG's---even if you still need the same scoring percentage no matter what.

I think it's just a difference of opinions, and I'm not quite sure that there is a correct/incorrect answer in this case. I think there are reasonable arguments on both sides.
 
Actually, I said that either you're naive, or you haven't mastered understanding the English language. And I stand by the notion that it is certainly one or the other .... Well, there's actually a 3rd option that you're just trying to be a ****.....stop acting like you know the mindset of the typical mindset of the nfl player.....you obviously don't

Again, Jeff Saturday said as much himself with regard to Suh so apparently I have a better and more firm understanding of the mindset of the typical NFL player than you do. Again, this is their careers we're talking about here. The better portion of NFL players know that and know that this is the way these guys feed their families. It's the scumbags of the league that do what you advocated in your OP.

As for the naive/English language/**** part, ad hominem attacks are typically the first sign that you're aware that you're on the side of a losing argument. Like I said, keep 'em coming.
 
Repeating things does not validate them

It's not an attack .... You are what you are

If anyone has been attacking or insulting, it has been you, but your confusion doesn't surprise me
 
Andy makes a good point. Chargers controlled time of possession but, didn't do much with it. Still have to go out there and score.
 
There are over 1700 players in the nfl.......you have given me 2 instances over the years.....

In other words, you have completely failed to make any kind of valid point.

Feel free to keep trying, though......or run along
 
I don't know which Wes you all watched over the years, but he's a tough little basstahhd. Good luck trying to bully that guy. Not that we have DB's who could realistically do it anyway. Unfortunately. One miss playing him up like that and he's gonna eat you alive.
 
not too many corners simply line up on welker and win that matchup. You have to set the tone by knocking him around Legally. If he plays and hurts himself that would be his fault since he and the medical staff made an eager decision to play when he's clearly hurting. with the pick plays the broncos run, knocking welker down would allow chandler and ninkovich to get to happy feet since welker is usually the first look on those pick plays.

I like the happy feet reference. That used to be a term that was thrown around a lot as a dig at a QB until P6 made it part of his routine in the NFL.

Isn't that pick play supposed to be illegal, or did I miss another Polianic rule change?
 
There are over 1700 players in the nfl.......you have given me 2 instances over the years.....

In other words, you have completely failed to make any kind of valid point.

Feel free to keep trying, though......or run along

Unless you forget the whole bountygate scandal that happened a couple of years ago. One of the biggest scandals in NFL history...
 
My point was simple. There's no need to rehash it since you obviously don't get it.

What got me banned was certainly not dialog like this, otherwise, you would have been banned a long time ago.

Inflicting pain and injury has been in the game since day 1. And yeah, the word is out....hit welker high and hit manning low ..... Deal with it, as it is part of the game
 
Unless you forget the whole bountygate scandal that happened a couple of years ago. One of the biggest scandals in NFL history...

I'm really trying to find the relevance of this in this convo ..... You've mentioned it before but has nothing to do with bounties since most players do it for sheer joy
 
Inflicting pain and injury has been in the game since day 1. And yeah, the word is out....hit welker high and hit manning low ..... Deal with it, as it is part of the game

I'm fine with inflicting pain and punishment. I'm aware that it's part of the game. I advocated it at the beginning of the thread. I've advocated it time and time again. I've stood up for guys like Pollard and Ryan Clark. There's a difference between inflicting pain and punishment and targeting pre-existing injuries of other guys that are out there trying to make a living for their families, though. That's what you advocated. By and large, the players that have embodied that stance have been ostracized by other players in the league. There's a reason for that.

I'm really trying to find the relevance of this in this convo ..... You've mentioned it before but has nothing to do with bounties since most players do it for sheer joy

Of course you don't, since it completely destroys your point. But it's perfectly relevant. Players were going out there and targeting other players, specifically areas of pre-existing injuries or injuries they caused in game. It caused a scandal, league-wide backlash, and penalties.
 
Nothing here is relevant to bountygate. Nothing at all.

You keep throwing out red herrings like bountygate and Jeff Saturday . They don't help you make your point...,,,by the way, what is your point because you're talking in cirvles
 
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