Ground Hog Day

[DaBruinz]

But you can't argue the facts.

RB was not a priority, but front 7 is.

That's not fact. That's opinion. No wonder you're having so many issues.

 

[Kontradiction]

One of the things that I look forward to the most about the draft every year is when DaBruinz logs in and then goes about responding to threads like these.

 

[maust]

I didn't read this thread, but I can guarantee it went like this...
Next four pages of posts: Just a constant repeat of the above.

Maybe you should have at least scanned it, you would have found that isn't all that was here. For instance there's this:

Let's worry about who is on the team in September instead of who is on the team in April. It doesn't matter who you draft if they don't play.

 

[Sicilian]

I didn't read this thread, but I can guarantee it went like this:

Guy A: Even though the Patriots have been the most successful franchise in sports for 20 years, I'm going to find something to complain about.

Guy B: Because the Patriots have been the most successful franchise in sports for 20 years, they are immune to any and all criticism.

Next four pages of posts: Just a constant repeat of the above.

Well the important thing is that you've found a way to feel superior to both.

 

[fightingirish595]

By that argument, one could say drafting offense was the correct choice. Philly's offense made the plays when they needed it though, the Pats did not.

No because the patriots still scored 33 points in the game. That should’ve been enough. Philly got more stops when they needed them.

The patriots made draft choices on offense and defense just like they should have

 

[maust]

Well the important thing is that you've found a way to feel superior to both.

Well, he is the self proclaimed 'enlightened one' so obviously that feeling of superiority comes naturally

Only Time Will Tell

 

[JMC00]

You claim that the Patriots won because of the calls in Pittsburgh and NY, but ignore the fact that the only reason that Philly won was because the league used the NEW CATCH RULES in the SB instead of the ones they'd used all season. And that accounted for 2 TDs for Philly. Otherwise the Pats win it handedly.

Don't forget that Foles TD catch should have been flagged for illegal formation. So that's 3 TD

Putting my "hypothetical hat on' that's 10 points off the board as the eagles settle for FGs on all of those, the 2 "catch rule" TD were on 3rd down and the Foles TD was on 4th down.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

But you can't argue the facts.

RB was not a priority, but front 7 is.

Both were priorities, and both have been addressed so far through FA and the draft. And don’t discount a training camp trade or 2 if Bill sees fit in adding a vet or 2

 

[Boomer B]

I was hoping for a couple of difference makers in the front 7. A stud LB who could play 3 downs (Evans or LVE) and an edge rusher. Tennessee blew up the LB plan and it's pretty clear Belichick didn't like a lot of the edge players we were hoping for.

At the end of the day Belichick doesn't draft for need, he drafts for value. If he see's an O lineman who he thinks can be a pro bowler he'll pick him 100% of the time over a lessor player in a position of need. In the short term we shake our heads but in the long term it's the right call. If Belichick has a 5th round grade on the next LB on his board he isn't gonna pick him at 31 over a RB he has a 1st round grade on. I wish we had taken a flyer on M. Hurst in the 4th but I guess they had him off the board.

So as of today we have more depth on D but I don't see a real elite talent added. I'm hoping we trade one of our picks next year for an established LB who can play 3 downs. We are still the best team in the AFC, but it's looking like when we play a good O we are gonna be in a shootout.

 

[Deus Irae]

Nope

RB was not a need at 2 on a team thats run game is by committee. Lewis is gone, not Emmit Smith. Lewis was a castaway.

3rd ranked run game in 2017. 31st ranked defense.

The defense was the league's 5th best scoring defense. The 3rd ranked run game lost its main back, who just happened to be its only reliable and quality back when it came to the actual running part of being a running back.

Try again. Do better.

 

[Bruins29]

. Seriously, is this just a troll / bully forum or are we here to talk intelligently about football?

You are complaining this place is a "troll/bully forum" yet at the same time attempting to defend the troll.

 

[IllegalContact]

you heard it here first..... VanderEsch will never be Connor Barwin

the defense is getting hightower back.....so the defense will most certainly be improved.......until week 8 or 9....

 

[TB_Helmet]

Oh, you're personally attacking ME now. At least I saved the other guy lol.

If you look at that post, which you helpfully linked, it's actually full of humility, such as "I know 1/10 of what Belichick knows and 1/3 of what some posters here know," and "based on my limited knowledge" etc. But you pulled out where I said I was *trying* to look at things in an enlightened way, not that I was the "enlightened one," to find a way to attack me personally. Seriously, is this just a troll / bully forum or are we here to talk intelligently about football?

7 posts in and guns already blazing!

I'd say wait a few days (and a post count in the double figures?) before starting the arguments regarding style of other posts rather than content, but to each his own. As long as you're not Chris Stevenson with a new handle.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I've been watching the "yards per game" vs "points per game" debate and decided to look up some other stats to consider. The Pats were in the top 10 of opponents time of possession which is good as it says the other team's offense isn't on the field as much. The other stat I looked up is their defense's 3rd down % which they were in the middle of the pack at 39% which in my opinion isn't that bad if you compare it to their best defensive team in 2003 (34%). So theses stats are kind of weird when you consider how there teams were gashing the Pats with so many yards so quickly but couldn't score.

I don't have access to these stats but I'd like to know how they compared to other teams giving up yards to RB's in the passing game. Throughout the season, it seemed as though teams were exploiting the Pats with their RB's in the passing game as we saw in the AFFCG and the Super Bowl.

I'm not the biggest fan of stats but my eyes tell me the Pats could use some juice in the pass rush and get more athletic at LB. I don't want to see Marquis Flowers and Eric Lee at LB due to injuries to Hightower and Van Noy. Another question on this thread was if Rivers can't be trusted then why draft another player? Because it creates competition and you are not putting all your eggs in one basket. You don't just draft a couple guys and think your set.

Regarding the other debate of the running game. I believe the running game was a weakness with Dion Lewis leaving because James White and Rex Burkhead are not primary backs. However, Jeremy Hill could be a huge sleeper as he said he struggled in Cincy because he tried to tough out his injuries. He ended up getting surgery when the Bengals wanted to feature Joe Mixon at RB (which Mixon didn't do so well). If he returns to his rookie form, the Pats could have a really good running game.

 

[Triumph]

The defense was the league's 5th best scoring defense. The 3rd ranked run game lost its main back, who just happened to be its only reliable and quality back when it came to the actual running part of being a running back.

Try again. Do better.

Fail

The Pats had the 31st ranked defense.

21st passing defense and 30th run defense. Allow that to sink in.

 

[Triumph]

The defense was the league's 5th best scoring defense. The 3rd ranked run game lost its main back, who just happened to be its only reliable and quality back when it came to the actual running part of being a running back.

Try again. Do better.

No

The main back was a cast off. Like Woodhead, Blount, Dillon, Smith. Committees spread the wealth. Now, Sony has to play a lot to justify costing a 1st round pick.

 

[maust]

Oh, you're personally attacking ME now. At least I saved the other guy lol.

If you look at that post, which you helpfully linked, it's actually full of humility, such as "I know 1/10 of what Belichick knows and 1/3 of what some posters here know," and "based on my limited knowledge" etc. But you pulled out where I said I was *trying* to look at things in an enlightened way, not that I was the "enlightened one," to find a way to attack me personally. Seriously, is this just a troll / bully forum or are we here to talk intelligently about football?

I wasn't 'personally attacking' anyone, not before or in the post you reference. The sentence in question from the linked post was "I'm trying to be the enlightened one..."
If you really are so humorless as to take having that phrase poked fun at as a 'personal attack' and thin skinned enough to see it as bullying after your previous mocking of the assumed posting habits of others when you admit to not even having read them then you may be in for bumpy visit if you don't engage your sense of humor a bit.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Fail

The Pats had the 31st ranked defense.

21st passing defense and 30th run defense. Allow that to sink in.

You keep completely dismissing scoring defense, as if the NFL picks a winner based on yards allowed at the end of the game.

In 2016, Houston had the #1 ranked defense by yards allowed but was #11 in points allowed. The Patriots had the #8 ranked defense by yards allowed but was #1 in points allowed, actually the #1 scoring defense the NFL had seen in three seasons.

Which defense did a better job that season?

I certainly hope the defense is better overall this year and it's hard to imagine the run defense won't be, and that will only help the pass rush if we can set up more 3rd and longs. But can you simply acknowledge that points allowed is the bottom line point of the defense?

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

No

The main back was a cast off. Like Woodhead, Blount, Dillon, Smith. Committees spread the wealth. Now, Sony has to play a lot to justify costing a 1st round pick.

Dude, did you just call Dillon a cast off? 1635 yards and 12 TDs in 2004. Led the NFL in rushing yards per game, 2nd in total rushing yards behind Curtis Martin because he missed a game. Comparing him to Blount, Woodhead and Smith is simply ridiculous.

 

[Doctor DDS]

The Pats defense was historically bad the first 4 weeks of 2017 but turned into one of the best units in the league the rest of the year. To use cumulative yardage stats to rank a defense is beyond stupid. The league has made this an offensive league and it is extremely difficult to stop quality offenses when they get it going. The Pats typically have at least one playoff game each year where the offense needs to bail them out. That's just the way this league is structured. Super Bowls are played in perfect conditions and that helps the offense. In 2014 when the Pats arguably had their most talented defensive unit in years the struggled twice (Ravens and Seahawks were a yard away from 31 points)

Top defenses get torched in the playoffs regularly - 2017 Vikings vs Eagles, Jags vs Steelers, 2016 Giants were being talked about as top defense in the league and the Packers smoked them. We all want the defense to improve - just not sure that means they shut other teams down all the time.