Grizzlies: The Offensive Front Line

[Off The Grid]

I've found that Wes Bunting is a pretty good evaluator. And based on what I saw in the Sr Bowl, I totally agree with many of his OL assessments. I'm nowhere near as sold on Solder and Castanzo as Kiper and the likes. The one guy I think Bunting is underestimating is James Carpenter. I think Carpenter will be a starter in the NFL.

Bunting is the Alpha Scout as far as I'm concerned. I consult his takings, and than of up to 4 others, as I form my own evaluations...And I can assure you that I consult Kiper STRICTLY for Entertainment Purposes: That A Hole shows up 3 months before the Draft, drops names that many'f us've been bandying about for 21 months or more...and perpetrates like he's an Authority.

Mayock and whatsHisFace are LESS than useless.

I like Carpenter, as well, as a Late Round Development Guy. Not part of MY Vision, but I certainly respect why he'd be part of yours.

 

[patchick]

If we'd followed my lead and Traded Forward with the Raider Pick for Marquis de Pouncey ~ as I was screaming for us to do, this Spring ~ we'd be getting ready for the Super Bowl, right now.

Ah, were you the one who thought that a 49ers team with management hanging on to their jobs by their fingernails would have jumped at the idea of trading #16 overall for a future first? (Heck, when was the last time ANY team traded their one and only first-round pick for a future first -- let alone a pick that high?)

The Patriots didn't draft Pouncey because he wasn't available. No fair inventing improbable imaginary trades then scolding the team for not making them. :nono:

 

[Snake Eyes]

Evidently, we are not.

Ok, this is the one I'm talking about, and I think he'd fit in very nicely with Scar and Co.

 

[Nonentity]

Doug Farrer wrote a good article for Football Outsiders analysing Gabe Carimi, Nate Solder and Derek Sherrod. I don't know what he's like as an evaluator, but hopefully it's a useful discussion starter.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Cover-2: OTs of the 2011 Draft

 

[dryheat44]

Ah, were you the one who thought that a 49ers team with management hanging on to their jobs by their fingernails would have jumped at the idea of trading #16 overall for a future first? (Heck, when was the last time ANY team traded their one and only first-round pick for a future first -- let alone a pick that high?)

The Patriots didn't draft Pouncey because he wasn't available. No fair inventing improbable imaginary trades then scolding the team for not making them. :nono:

My thoughts exactly. We weren't getting a pick in the top 17 for an unknown 1st rounder the next year unless we threw in our first rounder (McCourty), or maybe, and just maybe, #42 (Gronkowski) in the deal as well.

I'll take Koppen, McCourty/Gronkowski, and the 2011 first rounder over Pouncey 100 times out of 100.

Can I now blast Belichick for not using the Raiders pick to move forward and grab Suh?

 

[Off The Grid]

If we'd followed my lead and Traded Forward with the Raider Pick for Marquis de Pouncey ~ as I was screaming for us to do, this Spring ~ we'd be getting ready for the Super Bowl, right now.

Ah, were you the one who thought that a 49ers team with management hanging on to their jobs by their fingernails would have jumped at the idea of trading #16 overall for a future first? (Heck, when was the last time ANY team traded their one and only first-round pick for a future first -- let alone a pick that high?)

The Patriots didn't draft Pouncey because he wasn't available. No fair inventing improbable imaginary trades then scolding the team for not making them. :nono:

Yeah, I may've leaned into it on that one....a TAD.

For the record, though, it was precisely because the Miners had TWO 1st Rounders that I posited that their now ex Head Coach might pressure for that trade.

But I freely admit that the proposed trade was both unprecedented and radical, as my notions are wont to be.

Honestly, though, I was making a broader point: Coach B's persistent refusal to address the limitations that Super Bowl 42 exposed on our O Line...which has obviously continued to haunt us.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Can I now blast Belichick for not using the Raiders pick to move forward and grab Suh?

LOL. What? That does not make sense. BB would have had to trade the entire draft class to be in position for Suh.

Interesting read on the OTs.
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Cover-2: OTs of the 2011 Draft

From the sound of it, Sherrod would be the safest pick. But I don't think he will slide into range for the Pats. Solder is kind of intriguing if he drops to our second 1st round pick. I don't think we spend #17 on a raw, unrefined lineman. BB goes for guys who can contribute quickly and I think that's going to be a DE.

 

[Off The Grid]

Willie Smith of East Carolina is the ENTIRE story at O Tackle.

He's the only name we need to know, Brothers. Remember where you heard it first.

Pro Bowl Potential.

Put him to work under Dante, bookend him with Sebastian...and it's ALL OVER.

Projected for the 6th Round, but will probably soar up to the 2nd or 3rd: I'm thinking early 3rd, as Brother Mayo first suggested.

Willie Smith, baby.

 

[Deus Irae]

...Honestly, though, I was making a broader point: Coach B's persistent refusal to address the limitations that Super Bowl 42 exposed on our O Line...which has obviously continued to haunt us.

Given that the 2008 11 win season was not due to the O-line's poor play, that the 2009 loss to the Ravens was not due to the O-line's poor play, and that the 2010 loss to the Jets was not due to the O-line's poor play,


What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Off The Grid]

Given that the 2008 11 win season was not due to the O-line's poor play, that the 2009 loss to the Ravens was not due to the O-line's poor play, and that the 2010 loss to the Jets was not due to the O-line's poor play,


What the hell are you talking about?

Yeah, it had NOTHING to do with those losses!!

 

[Off The Grid]

Mayock and whatsHisFace are LESS than useless.

WTF???

One of many dumb @$$ remarks I've made, lately, a production of a brain fart: I was thinking of that slick haired donkey ~ that iconic draft guy who's name even yet escapes me...

Mayock, I like.

 

[patchick]

WTF???

One of many dumb @$$ remarks I've made, lately

A toast to you, for being the first poster in memory to "WTF" himself! :eat3:

 

[mgteich]

I'll add my toast to yours! And to think, Mel Kiper made this event possible.

A toast to you, for being the first poster in memory to "WTF" himself! :eat3:

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah, it had NOTHING to do with those losses!!

Which playoff loss, post-2007, is the play of the O-line responsible for?

 

[MaineMan]

Doug Farrer wrote a good article for Football Outsiders analysing Gabe Carimi, Nate Solder and Derek Sherrod. I don't know what he's like as an evaluator, but hopefully it's a useful discussion starter.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Cover-2: OTs of the 2011 Draft

Very well-written and thorough - and followed by intelligent comments. The follow-up on Hudson and Watkins was informative as well with a nice exploration of moving Hudson to OC and, in the comments, the not-so-insane suggestion about moving Hudson to DT.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Very well-written and thorough - and followed by intelligent comments. The follow-up on Hudson and Watkins was informative as well with a nice exploration of moving Hudson to OC and, in the comments, the not-so-insane suggestion about moving Hudson to DT.

I love Hudson as a Center and I really think he could be a special player if he ends up in the right environment. He is by far the best technician in this draft and the only reason he isnt a 1st rounder is his size. However, I think if he can sit for a year behind Koppen and bulk up properly, I dont see any reason why he couldn't play at 295-300 lbs. He seems like the perfect fit for the Pats system and is the exact type of player the Pats would go after. He's a 4 year starter, played a variety of positions, is the most decorated O-Lineman in FSU history and is the only 4-time All ACC offensive lineman EVER. The final thing I love about Hudson is he is DISCIPLINED. He only gave up 3 penalties in his first 3 years, including a streak of 20 consecutive games without a penalty.

One thing that could help the Pats if they really like Hudson is the fact that he is likely to drop coming into the draft based on his size. We saw after the Senior Bowl weigh-ins people already started dropping Hudson down their boards. I believe the same thing will happen at the combine, because unlike the Senior Bowl, Hudson wont play any more games until the draft, and thats where he shines. He may not look great in drills, and may struggle against bigger NT's in 1 on 1's, but in games he is spectaular. I think he will likely end up being an early to mid 3rd rounder, which would be an absolute steal for anyone.

In terms of Danny Watkins, he is a really intruiging guy. He obviously has a ton of potential and his stock is definately on the rise. However, I have two main concerns about him. The first is obviously his age, because a 26/27 year old rookie isnt ideal, especially as an early pick. My second concern is how high he will get drafted. If he's available at 60 he's a no brainer, but at 33? I just dont know. And if some team really falls in love with him it wouldn't suprise me to see him in the late first round, where some people are already mocking him. He's definitely a guy to keep an eye on but I really wouldn't over draft him with really solid guys available in the 3rd/4th rounds.

 

[MaineMan]

I love Hudson as a Center and I really think he could be a special player if he ends up in the right environment. He is by far the best technician in this draft and the only reason he isnt a 1st rounder is his size. However, I think if he can sit for a year behind Koppen and bulk up properly, I dont see any reason why he couldn't play at 295-300 lbs. He seems like the perfect fit for the Pats system and is the exact type of player the Pats would go after. He's a 4 year starter, played a variety of positions, is the most decorated O-Lineman in FSU history and is the only 4-time All ACC offensive lineman EVER. The final thing I love about Hudson is he is DISCIPLINED. He only gave up 3 penalties in his first 3 years, including a streak of 20 consecutive games without a penalty.

One thing that could help the Pats if they really like Hudson is the fact that he is likely to drop coming into the draft based on his size. We saw after the Senior Bowl weigh-ins people already started dropping Hudson down their boards. I believe the same thing will happen at the combine, because unlike the Senior Bowl, Hudson wont play any more games until the draft, and thats where he shines. He may not look great in drills, and may struggle against bigger NT's in 1 on 1's, but in games he is spectaular. I think he will likely end up being an early to mid 3rd rounder, which would be an absolute steal for anyone.

In terms of Danny Watkins, he is a really intruiging guy. He obviously has a ton of potential and his stock is definately on the rise. However, I have two main concerns about him. The first is obviously his age, because a 26/27 year old rookie isnt ideal, especially as an early pick. My second concern is how high he will get drafted. If he's available at 60 he's a no brainer, but at 33? I just dont know. And if some team really falls in love with him it wouldn't suprise me to see him in the late first round, where some people are already mocking him. He's definitely a guy to keep an eye on but I really wouldn't over draft him with really solid guys available in the 3rd/4th rounds.

The question from the Pats perspective, of course, would be whether Hudson projects significantly better than the two guys of similar size already on the roster - Wendell and Ohrnberger - who also already have a couple years experience in the system. Would the difference between Hudson and where these two are right now in their development be sufficient to dump one of them and spend the #60 or #74 on Hudson? Obviously, we have no way to know the answer to that with any certainty.

 

[Wilfork#75]

The question from the Pats perspective, of course, would be whether Hudson projects significantly better than the two guys of similar size already on the roster - Wendell and Ohrnberger - who also already have a couple years experience in the system. Would the difference between Hudson and where these two are right now in their development be sufficient to dump one of them and spend the #60 or #74 on Hudson? Obviously, we have no way to know the answer to that with any certainty.

Thats definitely an interesting question, and I think it would be a larger issue if Koppen wasn't under contract for another year because Hudson wouldn't be asked to come in and start right away. I dont have a whole lot of confidence in Wendell or Ohrnberger to become more than solid backups, while I see Hudson as a potential Pro Bowl OC. So I definitely think I would take Hudson above both Ohrnberger or Wendell, especailly with the ability to move Connolly to Center if needed. Another thing that may come into consideration is expanded rosters with an 18 game schedule and the ability to carry an extra OL or two. To go back to the original point, from day 1 would Hudson be a better option than Ohrnberger or Wendell? Maybe not. But given a year with Scar to develop I absolutely believe he would be worth spending a late 2nd early 3rd on.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Which playoff loss, post-2007, is the play of the O-line responsible for?

I don't think they had a very good game against the Jets, particularly Koppen. It may have been b/c he was hurt. The Jets were getting pressure with as little as three rushers.

I'll grant that there was plenty of blame to go around in that game, but I don't think the OL play was a high point.

 

[Shelterdog]

I love Hudson as a Center and I really think he could be a special player if he ends up in the right environment. He is by far the best technician in this draft and the only reason he isnt a 1st rounder is his size. However, I think if he can sit for a year behind Koppen and bulk up properly, I dont see any reason why he couldn't play at 295-300 lbs.

Isn't the fact that he played at 280 for five straight years, from his senior year in high school through four years of college, an indication that he might not be able to bulk up? I'm sure he was trying, he just might not be a guy who can carry 295 and be in shape.

I know he was 290 at one of the senior bowls but apparently he looked fat and out of shape. He's short (for an o-lineman) and narrow (for an o-lineman).