Good trade?

[nantucketguy]

Had a discussion, curious to see what some of you say. Now that we know that with the Raiders remaining schedule, they will most likely miss the P.O.'s and be at best, a 15th pick, worst 18th. How does that compensation weigh versus having an above average DE with this team for the past two seasons, meaning last and this. At first, everyone thought it would be a top 5 MAYBE 10 pick! Given our injuries, would we be better off having Seymour? AND what do we address with that pick?

Thanks

 

[Sciz]

Seymour would not be on this team right now. He was a free agent, and the franchise tag was reserved for Wilfork.

Seymour's 2009 season + 2011 3rd round comp pick FOR 2011 mid first round pick

Totally worth it.

 

[patriotscpfc]

Would he have made a difference last year? Probably, yes. Would Ray Rice have ran straight through a hole in the D in the playoffs if Seymour and Vince were next to each other? I doubt it.

This year, we've won 12 games. We might have beaten Cleveland with Seymour.

I don't know if he makes a difference in the Jets game.

I take the first round pick and hopefully yet another Belichick 1st round successful high pick.

I still advocate trading a first and our late 2nd to get up some spots to take a stud

 

[Deus Irae]

 

[patsfaninpa]

Would he have made a difference last year? Probably, yes. Would Ray Rice have ran straight through a hole in the D in the playoffs if Seymour and Vince were next to each other? I doubt it.

This year, we've won 12 games. We might have beaten Cleveland with Seymour.

I don't know if he makes a difference in the Jets game.

I take the first round pick and hopefully yet another Belichick 1st round successful high pick.

I still advocate trading a first and our late 2nd to get up some spots to take a stud

You're missing the point. We wouldn't have had him this year. He was a free agent after last year. We would have had to seriously overpay to keep him and you know that wasn't going to happen. We would have gotten a 3rd round comp pick if he signed elsewhere.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

I'd make that trade again in a minute. as has already been said. He's in a new contract and he wouldn't have been on this team.

 

[WhiZa]

Kraft hooked Al Davis up by allowing it to be a 2011 first rounder instead of a (likely) 2010 first rounder. Being a nice guy he let Al Davis choose his draft pick.

Al Davis Tells All: How the Seymour Deal Went Down - New England Patriots - NESN.com

hey changed the deal a little bit, and then they gave me the opportunity to make my choice on draft choices

 

[signbabybrady]

I am not sure if it is what qualifies as a good trade to me a Good trade would be one where you come out on the better end. And in this trade I think when it is all said and done we will both be ahppy with what we came out of it with So I would qualify it more as a fair trade.

The Raiders have already received two pretty good years of service out of Seymour and he clearly has helped that D forge an identity as a tough defense. I think they were a decent D before Big Sey but he solidified it. If they get another few seasons out of him then they would have reasonably got what one can expect out of a First rounder (sure there is more upside to a draft pick but also more risk). And they didnt have to wait until 2011 for the talent.

With the Pats draft track record especially in the first round I think we can be happy with what we got for a one year player. If the draft pick turns out to be an absolute stud like Sey was then maybe we wind up in the win but just on the surface I would say this was a fair deal.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Seymour was a whole lot more than an 'above average' DE. He was the best 3-4 DE in the NFL, and he still would be if he played in a 3-4. And I don't necessarily buy that he wouldn't still be with the team. They ended up getting a deal done with Wilfork; it's not at all unreasonable to say that they might have negotiated a little more aggressively with Wilfork had the franchise tag been tied up on Seymour, or vice versa. Either way, if Seymour was on the team it would be an enormous improvement over what we have now. If our defense ends up betraying us in the playoffs, trading Seymour will be the likely difference between another SB and falling short, just as Branch was in 2006.

Will it be a good trade? Depends a whole lot on who's available when we use the pick. I didn't like the trade when it happened, and while my stance has softened in the year and a half or so since then, I still don't love it. Seymour has too many quality years left, and is too unique a talent, to trade him for a pick multiple season down the line. There were a few of us warning even then that, by the time 2010 rolled around, the Raiders might actually be pretty good. A top-5 pick was never a sure thing like a lot of people assumed it was.

 

[Sicilian]

Kraft hooked Al Davis up by allowing it to be a 2011 first rounder instead of a (likely) 2010 first rounder. Being a nice guy he let Al Davis choose his draft pick.

Al Davis Tells All: How the Seymour Deal Went Down - New England Patriots - NESN.com

Pretty sure the choice was between a 2011 1st rounder or a 2010 2nd rounder. There's no way the Pats gave them the choice between a 2010 1st and a 2011 1st, that's like offering someone the choice between $10,000 or $1,000.

 

[upstater1]

In hindsight, obviously it would have been better to get the Raiders second round pick last year, especially in a loaded draft. But it was worth the chance of getting a top 5 pick this year. A gamble that didn't pay off.

We'll have to compare the player we get this year to the guys that went in the 2nd and 3rd last year

 

[signbabybrady]

Seymour was a whole lot more than an 'above average' DE. He was the best 3-4 DE in the NFL, and debatably the best 3-4 DE ever. And I don't necessarily buy that he wouldn't still be with the team. They ended up getting a deal done with Wilfork; it's not at all unreasonable to say that they might have negotiated a little more aggressively with Wilfork had the franchise tag been tied up on Seymour. Either way, if Seymour was on the team it would be an enormous improvement over what we have now. If our defense ends up betraying us in the playoffs, trading Seymour will be the likely difference between another SB and falling short, just as Branch was in 2006.

Full agree Seymour was a whole lot more than an 'above average DE' but at the time of the trade he was performing only slightly above average for us and has played a little better than that for the Raiders but I dont think he is or ever will be what he was at his peak. anyway that was a small gripe with what you wrote

My real reason for responding to your post is to point out that sure they may have been able to lock up Vince and use the Tag on Sey instead but it could have totally backed fired on them and it could of wound up with Vince needing to be tagged and Sey would walk free. Not to mention it may have taken the leverage a franchise tags gives in order for Vince to accept what he did.

 

[patriotscpfc]

You're missing the point. We wouldn't have had him this year. He was a free agent after last year. We would have had to seriously overpay to keep him and you know that wasn't going to happen. We would have gotten a 3rd round comp pick if he signed elsewhere.

Well then, in that case I love the trade even more than I already did.

 

[patriotscpfc]

Pretty sure the choice was between a 2011 1st rounder or a 2010 2nd rounder. There's no way the Pats gave them the choice between a 2010 1st and a 2011 1st, that's like offering someone the choice between $10,000 or $1,000.

Depends on whether a rookie cap comes in with the new CBA or not.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Groundhog Day

Topic discussed here ad nauseum and I mean literally.
Wouldn't have posted this unless someone else bumped it to the top.

 

[borg]

The Pats knew that financially, they could only fit one max contract on the defensive line. Jettison Seymour early, get high compensation for him, and focus on signing Wilfork. Felger stated that Wilfork was the original trade target, but the Pats changed course. Putting talent aside for a second, Wilfork has demonstrated near perfect "Patriot Way" leadership while Big Sey gave off an aura of entitlement. The guy was awesome and he knew it. I suspect that BB knew the roster would be trending younger and it would be a lot easier to mold these youngsters if the veteran leadership was 100% on board. The proof is easy...Brady and Wilfork...it's their team and and the koolaide is delicious. Moss, Thomas, and Seymour enjoyed the status that they earned, maybe too much for BBs taste.

 

[ausbacker]

To be fair the Seymour trade has the potential to be win-win for the Patriots and the Raiders. Seymour has been a fantastic acquisition and changed much of the defensive philosophy with his professionalism. We'll only be able to assess the impact of the draft pick in a few years time once we've seen what has been done with it.

 

[Sciz]

To be fair the Seymour trade has the potential to be win-win for the Patriots and the Raiders. Seymour has been a fantastic acquisition and changed much of the defensive philosophy with his professionalism. We'll only be able to assess the impact of the draft pick in a few years time once we've seen what has been done with it.

Exactly. It's more likely that Seymour goes to one of the other 30 teams in the NFL than resigning with the Pats or signing with the Raiders. The Pats got a first round pick to get rid of him a year early, the Raiders gave up a first round pick to make sure none of the 30 other teams got him.

 

[Ring 6]

Had a discussion, curious to see what some of you say. Now that we know that with the Raiders remaining schedule, they will most likely miss the P.O.'s and be at best, a 15th pick, worst 18th. How does that compensation weigh versus having an above average DE with this team for the past two seasons, meaning last and this. At first, everyone thought it would be a top 5 MAYBE 10 pick! Given our injuries, would we be better off having Seymour? AND what do we address with that pick?

Thanks

He wouldnt have been here this season, his contract was up

 

[Ring 6]

Seymour was a whole lot more than an 'above average' DE. He was the best 3-4 DE in the NFL, and he still would be if he played in a 3-4. And I don't necessarily buy that he wouldn't still be with the team. They ended up getting a deal done with Wilfork; it's not at all unreasonable to say that they might have negotiated a little more aggressively with Wilfork had the franchise tag been tied up on Seymour, or vice versa. Either way, if Seymour was on the team it would be an enormous improvement over what we have now. If our defense ends up betraying us in the playoffs, trading Seymour will be the likely difference between another SB and falling short, just as Branch was in 2006.

Will it be a good trade? Depends a whole lot on who's available when we use the pick. I didn't like the trade when it happened, and while my stance has softened in the year and a half or so since then, I still don't love it. Seymour has too many quality years left, and is too unique a talent, to trade him for a pick multiple season down the line. There were a few of us warning even then that, by the time 2010 rolled around, the Raiders might actually be pretty good. A top-5 pick was never a sure thing like a lot of people assumed it was.

Its only a bad trade if we could have had him this year, and even then its debatable.
I think its incorrect to think Wilfork would have been signed without the tag, because he wasnt and its a huge stretch that it could have been done but they just lacked urgency.
I believe that BB would not have made the trade if he felt he could have come to terms on a contract with Seymour, and if he wasnt very concerned that Seymour would be a troublemaker AGAIN about his contract.