Good, comprehensive take on Solder's possible retirement after 2017 by Bedard

[Ring 6]

Exactly. It's just one word salad after another word salad from Andy in order to avoid what's looking him right in the face. If Belichick thought Googe was any good, there would have been no need to bring Dante back. Interest in returning or not. You don't just let any coach that is worth his weight in salt walk. Googe sucked, Belichick realized that, and let him walk.

I'm not disputing that belichick agreed it was best to move on from him.
I am disputing the way it is being categorized, the idea that his hiring was a disaster and some idiot who doesn't understand what the word fired means, and more importantly thinks it's worthwhile to argue about it and prove he doesn't undestand.

 

[RDS11]

I'm not disputing that belichick agreed it was best to move on from him.
I am disputing the way it is being categorized, the idea that his hiring was a disaster and some idiot who doesn't understand what the word fired means, and more importantly thinks it's worthwhile to argue about it and prove he doesn't undestand.

Well, sorry for bruising your enormous ego. I gave you the exact definition of the word 'fired', which for some reason you are disputing, just to back a point you are wrong to start with.

And yes, absolutely, having your employer not renewing your contract is being fired. It's not that hard to understand; you had a job, and the job is being given to someone else instead. It's not that hard to understand, but somehow, somewhere, in Andy's logic using the textual definition I'm the idiot.

Again, we see you for what you are; your argument doesn't stand a leg, so you are back to insults.

DeGuglielmo hiring was out of the norm for Belichick to start with; usually he prefers to promote internally. The fact that he wasn't extended after the Super Bowl should have provided an idea that Belichick still wasn't sure about him. Then, the Pats were quick to announce he wouldn't come back (one day after the worst beating any QB had taken in 10 years). He couldn't find another similar position, so he was an assistant coach last year. And I'm not even sure he is in the NFL any longer, he doesn't seem to be part of the Chargers coaching staff any more.

It might not have been an utter disaster, but paraphrasing Belichick, it just didn't work out.

See, I just use another one-liner employer use when firing someone.

 

[fnordcircle]

And yes, absolutely, having your employer not renewing your contract is being fired.

There's too many reasons other than underperforming why a contract won't be extended/renewed for you to say this as a blanket statement.

 

[Ring 6]

Well, sorry for bruising your enormous ego. I gave you the exact definition of the word 'fired', which for some reason you are disputing, just to back a point you are wrong to start with.

Read the definition. You cannot fire someone you do not employ.
When you contract expires you are no longer employer you are a free agent. You successfully completed all of the terms and length of your contract. M
You have no obligation to the employer and they have no obligation to you. Hence it is literally impossible for them to fire you.

And yes, absolutely, having your employer not renewing your contract is being fired.

Of course it is not.

It's not that hard to understand; you had a job, and the job is being given to someone else instead. It's not that hard to understand, but somehow, somewhere, in Andy's logic using the textual definition I'm the idiot.

Bill parcells let his ****raxt with the patriots expire and went to the jets. Was he fired?
For you to be right bill parcells would have to have been fired.
I worked at a company years ago that was bought by a competitor. I had a 5 year contract at a very nice salary. It had a year left. I did not want to work for the new company but both was required to and wanted to fulfill my contract. When it was up I went to work elsewhere. Was I fired? For you to be correct then I had to have been fired even though they were disappointed inleft.

Again, we see you for what you are; your argument doesn't stand a leg, so you are back to insults.

My argument with you by definition is correct. You are trying to use a word to mean what it doesn't.

[quote
DeGuglielmo hiring was out of the norm for Belichick to start with; usually he prefers to promote internally. The fact that he wasn't extended after the Super Bowl should have provided an idea that Belichick still wasn't sure about him.[/quote]
I dispute none of that

Then, the Pats were quick to announce he wouldn't come back (one day after the worst beating any QB had taken in 10 years). He couldn't find another similar position, so he was an assistant coach last year. And I'm not even sure he is in the NFL any longer, he doesn't seem to be part of the Chargers coaching staff any more.

None of that has anything to with calling completing a contract a firing and none if that has anything to do with what happened on the football field in 2014 and 2015.

It might not have been an utter disaster, but paraphrasing Belichick, it just didn't work out.

See, I just use another one-liner employer use when firing someone.

No you made up a comment and called it paraphrasing and then once again mistakenly implied that anyone who leaves a job was fired.
Words have definitions. You can't make up your own.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I dont know why. The heavy lifting to create a new generation Offensive line has been done. A superior LOT was found and trained. A RT was groomed.

An IOL offensive line was created from higher draft picks than usually allocated there. Even a few potential future stars were discovered there. This year depth was addressed at Tackle, and maybe at G.

Scar had a year off to re-cooperate; and sacrificial lamb Googs broke in all the line rookies.

The team is fine there now for 4 or 5 seasons.

Cannon under Scar was good.

Cannon under Googs sucked

Fleming under Scar was functional

Fleming under Googs sucked

Shaq under Scar was good

Shaq under Googs sucked

Andrews under Googs was ok

Andrews under Scar was very good

Thuney under Scar was good

Thuney under a new OC coach is.....?

Saying Googs broke in the rookies is one thing. Saying Googs got them to play well is another.

Scar just has the touch with o-lineman and another coach coming in is not an automatic slam dunk the same level of quality line play would continue.

 

[Ring 6]

There's too many reasons other than underperforming why a contract won't be extended/renewed for you to say this as a blanket statement.

Right and actually even someone underperforming isn't fire if they are allowed to work until the end of there contract.
Some may have been fired if their contract was longer or if they worked in a job without a contract but whenthe fact is that you completed your contract by definition you weren't fired even if you sucked were hated and banged the bosses wife.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

There's too many reasons other than underperforming why a contract won't be extended/renewed for you to say this as a blanket statement.

Absolutely true in general, but I think in this particular case underperformance was clearly the issue.

 

[Ring 6]

Cannon under Scar was good.

Cannon under Googs sucked

Fleming under Scar was functional

Fleming under Googs sucked

Shaq under Scar was good

Shaq under Googs sucked

Andrews under Googs was ok

Andrews under Scar was very good

Thuney under Scar was good

Thuney under a new OC coach is.....?

Saying Googs broke in the rookies is one thing. Saying Googs got them to play well is another.

Scar just has the touch with o-lineman and another coach coming in is not an automatic slam dunk the same level of quality line play would continue.

There is no doubt scar is a better coach but you aren't comparing apples to apples.

Cannon was badly injured in 15 healthy in 16

Fleming was forced to start in 15 and used as a TE in 16

Mason was a rookie in 15.

Andrews wasnt a highly improved player and also was a rookie in 15

Rookies are better in year 2 almost always.

 

[Ring 6]

Absolutely true in general, but I think in this particular case underperformance was clearly the issue.

I don't think you can really call it underperformance because the unit performed except when decimated by injury.
I'd say it wasn't a good fit and BB wanted to go in a different direction plus scar wanted back.

Bringing in a coach from the outside of a promote from within organization is difficult and ultimately this one wasn't the right fit but the team wasn't harmed by the hire.

 

[RobertWeathers]

There is no doubt scar is a better coach but you aren't comparing apples to apples.

Cannon was badly injured in 15 healthy in 16

Fleming was forced to start in 15 and used as a TE in 16

Mason was a rookie in 15.

Andrews wasnt a highly improved player and also was a rookie in 15

Rookies are better in year 2 almost always.

Maybe but I think you can draw a parallel to rookie performance under Scar and rookies under Googs.

Cannon was good under Scar in 13. Sucked in 14 b/c he jerked him around, played him out of position and destroyed his confidence.

The overall point is Scar gets better performance out of players.

 

[Ring 6]

Maybe but I think you can draw a parallel to rookie performance under Scar and rookies under Googs.

Cannon was good under Scar in 13. Sucked in 14 b/c he jerked him around, played him out of position and destroyed his confidence.

The overall point is Scar gets better performance out of players.

I mean I'm not here to argue scar isn't a better Coach but it's wrong to trash the 14 and 15 teams unfairly.

I don't see a big difference in rookie play to make that the argument. In 2015 the rookies play well enough to be 10-0 before all the injuries decimated them.

Not sure it's coaching fault that we had 2 starting T and injuries at G so the best option was cannon playing out of position.

I know in 2014 we couldn't have done better than win the SB if scar was here and I don't think we were going further in 2015 with all those injuries.
I mean we didn't win one for the last 9 years before scar retired so I think it's a stretch to say he's the reason we only got to the afccg.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I mean I'm not here to argue scar isn't a better Coach but it's wrong to trash the 14 and 15 teams unfairly.

I don't see a big difference in rookie play to make that the argument. In 2015 the rookies play well enough to be 10-0 before all the injuries decimated them.

Not sure it's coaching fault that we had 2 starting T and injuries at G so the best option was cannon playing out of position.

I know in 2014 we couldn't have done better than win the SB if scar was here and I don't think we were going further in 2015 with all those injuries.
I mean we didn't win one for the last 9 years before scar retired so I think it's a stretch to say he's the reason we only got to the afccg.

Ok

I know you think Scar is better. So do I.

After 10-0 the line was pathetic.

I acknowledge injuries played a factor in the line's play and player development last year. I don't want to rehash the DEN AFCCG.

I would argue in past seasons when Scar was coach, with injuries the line played at a higher level.

 

[Ring 6]

Ok

I know you think Scar is better. So do I.

After 10-0 the line was pathetic.

I acknowledge injuries played a factor in the line's play and player development last year. I don't want to rehash the DEN AFCCG.

I would argue in past seasons when Scar was coach, with injuries the line played at a higher level.

I'm not sure we ever had so many.

LT out for season.
RT injured so badly he never played again and then moved to LT
Backup RT hobbled all year with foot injury
RG never played all season leaving only rookie and josh Kline all of who were injured at different points.
C on pup leaving UDFA to start.

I'd have to call it the most injury ravaged OL season I can remember.
Granted the group that played in the afccg was bad but how many teams could play well with all of that happening?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm not sure we ever had so many.

LT out for season.
RT injured so badly he never played again and then moved to LT
Backup RT hobbled all year with foot injury
RG never played all season leaving only rookie and josh Kline all of who were injured at different points.
C on pup leaving UDFA to start.

I'd have to call it the most injury ravaged OL season I can remember.
Granted the group that played in the afccg was bad but how many teams could play well with all of that happening?

I tend to agree.

I would need to double check but the 2005, 2010 and 2011 seasons were bad but I don't think close to games lost like 2015.

2010 was the Mankins holdout year but they survived.

They had that McDonald kid off the street start at C one game that year.

 

[Ring 6]

I tend to agree.

I would need to double check but the 2005, 2010 and 2011 seasons were bad but I don't think close to games lost like 2015.

2010 was the Mankins holdout year but they survived.

They had that McDonald kid off the street start at C one game that year.

I think the worst part of it was the last quarter of the season. We have stork at LT for a couple of games. Cannon was hobble volmer was 50% of himself. Waddle played one game and gut hurt. OT was decimated and IOL
was young.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think the worst part of it was the last quarter of the season. We have stork at LT for a couple of games. Cannon was hobble volmer was 50% of himself. Waddle played one game and gut hurt. OT was decimated and IOL
was young.

Yep. It really was a train wreck.

I recall one year they put Connolly at LT.

 

[Ring 6]

Yep. It really was a train wreck.

I recall one year they put Connolly at LT.

Mankins I think.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Mankins I think.

You are right. Connolly never played LT.

 

[varjao]

What a crap article, Bedard guessing a lot of things just based on a sentence? He's talking out of his ass.

Anyway you don't need to be an insider or football savvy to do some math and realize this is a possibility just because every player can stop playing any time and Solder has played a lot, has 2 rings and is rich. There is no shock if he call it a day. The team will move on, it was time to draft a left tackle anyway just from a business perspective to maybe go with a cheaper option.

Bedard trying to sell some drama.

 

[RDS11]

Read the definition. You cannot fire someone you do not employ.
When you contract expires you are no longer employer you are a free agent.
No you made up a comment and called it paraphrasing and then once again mistakenly implied that anyone who leaves a job was fired.
Words have definitions. You can't make up your own.

This again ? Are you 5 year old or what ?

I used the definition. I even put it in a post for all to see. You choose to ignore the definition, and go by your own which you didn't provided.

The Parcells comparison is plain stupid, first because he was still technically under contract for the Patriots (thus the 4 draft picks compensation) and second because he chose to move on. Obviously, Googe didn't chose to become unemployed and having to get a job at a lower level than what he had with the Pats.

But again, that's what Andy does when the basis of his argument is exposed.

You play with words, and then you attack these words to change the narrative.

Googe was a bad hire. He wasn't a good coach, Belichick realized it was a mistake and moved one. You are trying to defend the indefensible, then you got stuck on someone using the term 'being fired' because it didn't fit your narrative.

One of the great strength of Belichick is that he doesn't let his ego affect his decisions. He hired Googe, gave him a 2-year contract like he does with most entry-level coaches, realized it wasn't working, and moved on. I don't know why you try to defend Belichick's decision to hire Googe when his own actions tell us he realized his mistake and moved on.

The line was a disaster early in 2014, and it became a disaster again in 2015. You are using injuries as an excuse, but injuries never were such a problem with Scar as it became under Googe. In 2010 for example, the Pats were down to their 3rd center when Nick McDonald got to start. The line didn't crumble the way it did in 2015. Under Scar, the starting center never hinted the snap the way Stock did in the AFC Championship. For a coach not to be able to correct one of his player giving telling signs is incompetence.

The rotation of players didn't work out either. And the cherry on top of all this, was the 20 hits on Brady in Googe last game. Brady is constantly among the QB with the fastest decision-making (with the ball being thrown under 2.3 seconds), yet he took the most hit in a single game in the NFL in the past 10 years.

Googe was bad, Belichick realized it and moved on. It's been 2 years since, and Googe is not in the NFL anymore. It's a dead giveway Googe just wasn't good.