GM LOUNGE

[Scotty]

@UptownPatsFan , thanks for the link there , it is useful

 

[Uptown]

@UptownPatsFan , thanks for the link there , it is useful

No doubt, bud!

 

[micronin127]

My father, 82, asked me what I thought about all the new Patriots. I must admit to not knowing a ton about all these new players or whether their contracts represent bargains or are too rich. This was how I replied:

Offensive line:
Retain: Andrews
Depart: Thuney, Cannon
Acquire: Brown, Karras

Plan: could play the season with this line. 5th year option for Wynn should be picked up at $10 million giving us 2 more years. Brown is signed for one year. Drafting a tackle is not a bad idea, gives us 4 years of team control for an important position.

Defensive line:
Retain: Wise, Davis
Depart: Butler
Acquire: Godchaux, Anderson, Adams

Plan: Lawrence Guy is still out there and he's a good player. We need youth at this position. Drafting a DT is not a bad idea.

Cornerback/Safety:
Retain: JC Jackson (fairly sure thing given 2nd round tender, not 100%)
Depart: Chung
Acquire: Mills (CB/S)

Plan: Gilmore will probably be traded. Jason McCourty is still out there, but is 34. So is his twin Devin. We have Dugger. Joejuan Williams has been a relative bust. Who is our #2 CB if we trade Gilmore? Drafting a CB is not a bad idea.

Quarterback:
Retain: Newton
Depart: Hoyer
Acquire: none

Plan: will we trade up and draft a QB? Possibly. This position is the reason I think we have only improved by 2-3 wins. 9-7/10-6 and still not ready to dethrone the Bills.

TE/WR/LB/ST: we have manned the positions.

I think we need to clear out roster clutter: two practice squad kickers, N'Keal Harry, Matt LaCosse, etc...

 

[DaBruinz]

My father, 82, asked me what I thought about all the new Patriots. I must admit to not knowing a ton about all these new players or whether their contracts represent bargains or are too rich. This was how I replied:

Offensive line:
Retain: Andrews
Depart: Thuney, Cannon
Acquire: Brown, Karras

Plan: could play the season with this line. 5th year option for Wynn should be picked up at $10 million giving us 2 more years. Brown is signed for one year. Drafting a tackle is not a bad idea, gives us 4 years of team control for an important position.

Defensive line:
Retain: Wise, Davis
Depart: Butler
Acquire: Godchaux, Anderson, Adams

Plan: Lawrence Guy is still out there and he's a good player. We need youth at this position. Drafting a DT is not a bad idea.

Cornerback/Safety:
Retain: JC Jackson (fairly sure thing given 2nd round tender, not 100%)
Depart: Chung
Acquire: Mills (CB/S)

Plan: Gilmore will probably be traded. Jason McCourty is still out there, but is 34. So is his twin Devin. We have Dugger. Joejuan Williams has been a relative bust. Who is our #2 CB if we trade Gilmore? Drafting a CB is not a bad idea.

Quarterback:
Retain: Newton
Depart: Hoyer
Acquire: none

Plan: will we trade up and draft a QB? Possibly. This position is the reason I think we have only improved by 2-3 wins. 9-7/10-6 and still not ready to dethrone the Bills.

TE/WR/LB/ST: we have manned the positions.

I think we need to clear out roster clutter: two practice squad kickers, N'Keal Harry, Matt LaCosse, etc...

Something to think about. Williams saw 171 defensive snaps last year and 174 Special teams snaps.. Those were about double what he played as a rookie. Considering the transition, it's hard to call him a "bust" unless your expectations are unrealistic. Williams did take snaps at CB when Gilmore was out last year and he didn't look lost. Williams had also taken snaps covering TEs and RBs.. Opposing QBs were 6 of 11 for 136 yards and 1 TD. By comparison, QBs were 34 of 44 for 331yards and a TD against Phillips and 24 of 33 for 237 yards. This is the "Make or Break" year for Williams.. With no Chung and no JMac, Williams should see more snaps though Mills will also see time.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

It is very possible BB trades down. Maybe to recover his missing 3rd? Does any "soon to be GMs" know what we would get trading 15 down to 22 for example? A 3rd? Can we get a 2nd dropping 15 to 26 for example?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

It is very possible BB trades down. Maybe to recover his missing 3rd? Does any "soon to be GMs" know what we would get trading 15 down to 22 for example? A 3rd? Can we get a 2nd dropping 15 to 26 for example?

“trades down”

drafts a cornerback who kiper had going in 5th..all the bb worshippers defend the pick. He turns out to be below average


do NOT trade down. Draft a STUD at 15

 

[TheRainMaker]

Keep the D intact. Don't trade Gilmore and keep Jackson.

If all the QB's get taken up early, grab a game changing front 7 player that could help elevate the secondary even more. They struggled last year with such a putrid pass rush and the inability to stop the run. You already signed Judon and have HT. Complement the secondary by adding a ferocious pass rusher or sideline to sideline menace.

I do believe Bill will be aggressive and trade up for his guy, not trade down (at least in the 1st round). He wants the division title back and get back to the Super Bowl.

 

[long distance]

After first week of FA Patriots have 79 players on the roster.
Since Johnson is part of international program should not count against 90 (as he did not last yr) - there are 12 roster spots free.
More cuts are possible before the draft, esp. those that create some cap space (Vitale, LaCosse, Spence)

All opt-outs remaining are coloured grey since nobody was yet confirmed to return and reports of everyone returning were not only premature but dead wrong. Cannon, Chung and Lee are already gone, Bolden sent some cryptic FA message and the rest afaik kept quiet.

Numbers beside each position indicate how many players Pats usually carry to TC.

BBs FA1 “blitzkrieg“ filled most positions so there are no glaring needs left. Upgrades are always possible and will depend on opportunities.
So looking at 2nd part of FA (now until Draft) it will be mostly about adding depth pieces and increasing quality of competition in TC.

The only 2 positions that were not yet addressed in FA are RB and OG (although Karras could now qualify there).
Pats were reportedly interested in bigger RBs at the top of the market so this could be the next move.
Looking how market has dropped in recent days with many solid vets still out there id guess BB will make good use of opportunity.
So not done by any means



QB (3-4) - 1Newton (32, 2021,$5.4), 4Stidham (25, 2022, $0.8), 8Dolegala (24,futures)

RB (6-7) - 26Michel* (26, 2021+1, $3), 37D.Harris (24, 2022, $1), 42JJ.Taylor (23, 2022, $0,8), 38Bolden* (31, 2021, $2),
FB (2) - 47Johnson* (26, ERFA, +1-*international), #Vitale (27, 2021, $1,3)

WR (9-11) - Agholor (28,2022,$7), 11Edelman* (35,2021,$6.1), Bourne, (26,2023,$3.1), 15Harry (23,2022+1,$2,8), 16Meyers (24,2021,$0,9), 80Olszewski* (24,2021,$0,9), 19Zuber (24, futures), 13D.Smith (29, futures), 17Wilkerson (24, futures)

TE (6-7) - Smith (26,2024,$5.7), Henry (26,2023,$6.8), 86Asiasi (24,2023,$1), 44Keene (22,2023,$1), 83LaCosse* (29,2021,1.5$)

OT (6) - 76Wynn (25,2021,$3.6), Brown (28,2021, ), 75Herron (25,2023,$0,8), 77Cajuste (25,2022,$1), 74Cunningham (26,2021,$0,9)
OG (6) - 69Mason (28,2023,$9.8), 71Onwenu™ (23,2023,$0,8), 68Toran (G,25,2021,$0,8), 64Reynolds (G,25,futures)
OC (3) - 60Andrews (29,2024,$1.8), Karras (29, 2021, $), 68M.Martin (C/LG,27,2021,$0.9),


DL (7) - Godchaux (27,2022,$4), Anderson (30,2022,$2,7), 98C.Davis (29,2022,$1.9), 99Cowart (25,2022,$0,9), Adams (26,2021, $)
52Spence (29,2021,$2), 76M.Barnett (24,2022,$0,8) 92Thurman (26,futures), 97Murray (24,futures)

ED (7) - Judon (29,2024,6.4), 50Winovich* (26,2022,$1.1), 53Uche* (23,2023,$1.2), 91Wise* (27,2024,$3.3), 96Bower (26,2021,$0,9), 43Berry (24,2021,$0.8),

LB (7) - 54Hightower (31,2021,$12.5/10), 53Van Noy (30,2022,$4.4), 51Bentley* (25,2021,$1), 58Jennings* (24,2023,$1), McMillan (24 )
59Hall (24,2021,$0.8), 46Maluia* (22,2021,$0.8), 48Pinckney (23, futures)

S (7) - 32D.McCourty* (34,2021,$11.2), 21Phillips* (29,2021,$3.5), 35Dugger* (25,2023,$1.9), 23Mills (27,2024,4.6$), 41Bryant* (23,2022,$0.9)

CB (9-11) - 24Gilmore (31,2021,$16.3), 27JC.Jackson (25,2021,3.4$), 31J.Jones* (28,2022,$7.1), 33Williams* (23,2022,$1.8),
45M.Jackson (24,2021,$0.8), 38Virgin (27,2021,$0.9), 39Ross (24,futures)

ST - 7Bailey (24,2022,$0.9), 49Cardona (29,2022,$1.1), 6Folk (36, 2021, 1.6$), 5Rohrwasser (24,futures), 9Aguayo (27,futures)
18Slater (36,2021,$3), 36King (28,2021,$1.4), 29Bethel (31,2023, $), 22Cody Davis (32,2022, $)

-.-

 

[long distance]

It is very possible BB trades down. Maybe to recover his missing 3rd? Does any "soon to be GMs" know what we would get trading 15 down to 22 for example? A 3rd? Can we get a 2nd dropping 15 to 26 for example?

you can see/calculate approx possibilities here

2024 NFL Trade Value Chart

Compensations for trades in 1st round vary quite a bit - here some recent trades around #15. If its for QB you can easily ask for another 1st next year..

2019
<> Denver traded a first-round selection (10th) to Pittsburgh in exchange for Pittsburgh's first- and second-round selections (20th and 52nd) as well as their third-round selection in 2020.

2018
<> Green Bay traded a first-round selection (14th) to New Orleans in exchange for New Orleans's first- and fifth-round selections (27th and 147th) and a first-round selection in 2019.
<> Baltimore traded first- & fifth-round selections (16th and 154th) to Buffalo in exchange for Buffalo's first and third round selections (22nd and 65th).
<> Seattle traded first- and seventh-round selections (18th and 248th) to Green Bay in exchange for Green Bay's first-, third-, and sixth-round selections (27th, 76th, and 186th).

2017
<> Cleveland traded a first-round selection (12th) to Houston in exchange for Houston's first-round selections (25th) & a first-round selection in 2018.

Much depends on who is on the board and how many teams offer you a trade.

Normally you could get a lower 2nd rounder trading down 10 or more spots (#24+#55 PIT, #26+#59 CLE, #27+#58 BAL) if they really want someone; you could also get #19/#20+#51/#52 or even 2020 1st from WAS, CHI if top 5 QB is there and you're not taking it.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

you can see/calculate approx possibilities here

2024 NFL Trade Value Chart

Compensations for trades in 1st round vary quite a bit - here some recent trades around #15. If its for QB you can easily ask for another 1st next year..

2019
<> Denver traded a first-round selection (10th) to Pittsburgh in exchange for Pittsburgh's first- and second-round selections (20th and 52nd) as well as their third-round selection in 2020.

2018
<> Green Bay traded a first-round selection (14th) to New Orleans in exchange for New Orleans's first- and fifth-round selections (27th and 147th) and a first-round selection in 2019.
<> Baltimore traded first- & fifth-round selections (16th and 154th) to Buffalo in exchange for Buffalo's first and third round selections (22nd and 65th).
<> Seattle traded first- and seventh-round selections (18th and 248th) to Green Bay in exchange for Green Bay's first-, third-, and sixth-round selections (27th, 76th, and 186th).

2017
<> Cleveland traded a first-round selection (12th) to Houston in exchange for Houston's first-round selections (25th) & a first-round selection in 2018.

Much depends on who is on the board and how many teams offer you a trade.

Normally you could get a lower 2nd rounder trading down 10 or more spots (#24+#55 PIT, #26+#59 CLE, #27+#58 BAL) if they really want someone; you could also get #19/#20+#51/#52 or even 2020 1st from WAS, CHI if top 5 QB is there and you're not taking it.

Thanks. So BB can drop from 15th to 22nd in the 1st and pick up a mid round 3rd we are missing. Unless a top QB falls or 1 of the outstanding receivers, I think BB will do that. Reading @BaconGrundleCandy comments, it seems like pick 15 might be no-man's land and 22nd is little difference. Then we have a 2nd, two 3rds, and three 4ths to fill holes.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Thanks. So BB can drop from 15th to 22nd in the 1st and pick up a mid round 3rd we are missing. Unless a top QB falls or 1 of the outstanding receivers, I think BB will do that. Reading @BaconGrundleCandy comments, it seems like pick 15 might be no-man's land and 22nd is little difference. Then we have a 2nd, two 3rds, and three 4ths to fill holes.

I agree. I have maybe 10-12 blue Chip players I would take at 15. Between the Rest it looks like they could be available in a trade down and not much difference between there value.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I agree. I have maybe 10-12 blue Chip players I would take at 15. Between the Rest it looks like they could be available in a trade down and not much difference between there value.

That is what my impression is from you and the draft threads - I am not a draft guru. 15th OR 22nd and 86th. I am guessing BB will take 22nd and 86th.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

That is what my impression is from you and the draft threads - I am not a draft guru. 15th OR 22nd and 86th. I am guessing BB will take 22nd and 86th.

I wouldn't mind to use the additional pick to trade up then maybe into 50-70 range if we like one. We have the capital for that. I would say quality > quantity here in the first rounds. Depth can be added easily late/udfa

 

[Mike the Brit]

I think that the most important questions for you freelance GMs now are the Patriots' cap and who will be playing quarterback. Given that the cap is down to about $10 million, it seems that blockbuster trades are out. If, on the other hand, the Pats want to go up and get one of the Big Four quarterbacks in the draft, that will probably knock them out of drafting in the first few rounds this year and next. Does that mean that this is a team being built for Cam or (*gulp*) Stidham?

 

[p8ryts]

I think that the most important questions for you freelance GMs now are the Patriots' cap and who will be playing quarterback. Given that the cap is down to about $10 million, it seems that blockbuster trades are out. If, on the other hand, the Pats want to go up and get one of the Big Four quarterbacks in the draft, that will probably knock them out of drafting in the first few rounds this year and next. Does that mean that this is a team being built for Cam or (*gulp*) Stidham?

No, its being built for Belichick's last run.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Yes, it's being built for the immediate future.

FIFY

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Marino's Post Free Agency 2021 NFL Mock Draft | The Draft Network

Free agency is about filling needs and the draft is about value. If teams execute effectively in fre...

thedraftnetwork.com

Had the 49ers trade up to 4 for two firsts a second and fourth

 

[luuked]

Thanks. So BB can drop from 15th to 22nd in the 1st and pick up a mid round 3rd we are missing. Unless a top QB falls or 1 of the outstanding receivers, I think BB will do that. Reading @BaconGrundleCandy comments, it seems like pick 15 might be no-man's land and 22nd is little difference. Then we have a 2nd, two 3rds, and three 4ths to fill holes.

It sounds more like just another branch on the decision tree that is a NFL Draft. The thing to keep in mind with BB is that primarily he likes to postpone decisions for as long as possible to gather more information and see how things develop. It is all about being in a position have all options available to you.

If a QB unexpectedly falls be ready to pounce aggressively, if some actual blue chipper -- that is internally similarly highly rated -- appears to make to #15 there is no reason to assume he won't pick that player there. If the value ends up being in the second and third round then some scenarios for trade downs are most likely already thought through.

Am still curious what the branches we didn't get to see in 2015 were where they had already agreed with the Texans on a trade down from #32 because everyone assumed the Colts would take Malcom Brown and then backed out of that trade in the last possible moment when the Colts took Dorsett. A small trade up to grad Eddie Goldman ? Jordan Philips ? Forgot DT entirely and maybe go DE or lineman earlier. How if would have affected the Richards pick... too many possibilities..

 

[captain stone]

What a perfectly planned and executed team rebuild.

Something, something BB the GM is ....

Nothing's been executed, perfectly or otherwise, until the games start counting...

And as of this posting, Nelson Agholor's our #1 WR and Cant Newton's his QB...

 

[long distance]

Thanks. So BB can drop from 15th to 22nd in the 1st and pick up a mid round 3rd we are missing. Unless a top QB falls or 1 of the outstanding receivers, I think BB will do that. Reading @BaconGrundleCandy comments, it seems like pick 15 might be no-man's land and 22nd is little difference. Then we have a 2nd, two 3rds, and three 4ths to fill holes.

There might not be many holes to fill
General GM approach is: FA to fill the needs, Draft best player available.
It doesn't always work like this due to cap, FA offer at positions, FA competition etc.

It usually works like this for BB though and this year the holes are/will be filled in FA. Pats were “lucky“ to have so much cap in depressed market and that positions they had biggest needs offered good options. Id argue big holes are already filled - now is about opportunities to upgrade and depth.

There are 3 big parts of FA left: from now until the Draft / after Draft to Minicamp / from Minicamp to Training Camp (incl post June 1 trades)

I suggest we focus on this second part of FA in this thread at the moment. So many good and even very good players still out there that will be incredible bargains. I will post updated positional FA lists to see what's still out there and discuss what could be added to the roster.

In any case i would not draft 10 players this year - possibly not even close to that.
.