GM LOUNGE

[long distance]

and here is the list of edge FAs - those in grey are off the board


Judon, 29, BAL [PFF:16] — FT 20 — NE 4y/54.5M/30g
Barrett, 29, TB [PFF:17] —re-signed — TB 4y/68M>72/34.3g
JJ Watt, 32, HOU (17.5M) — cut — [18.5M/2y/ [PFF:2/25] — PIT, CLE, BUF, GB, ARI, TEN, LV — ARI 2y/28>31M/23g
Ngakoue, 26, BAL [PFF:17] — FT 15.5 — LV 2y/26M/21g
->Floyd, 29, LAR (Georgia) [PFF:13] — re-signed — 4y/64M/32.5g
->Dupree, 28, PIT (ACL.DEC>ok@TC) (?PIT DL effect) [PFF:1/10] — TEN 5y/82.5/33.8g
Lawson, 26 CIN (+pres) [15M/PFF:13/CIN:12] — NYJ 3y/45M/30g
Hendrickson, NO (run?) [PFF:11;OTC:13] — CIN 4y/60M/16g
->Okwara, 26, DET (+press?run) [10;PFF:1/6] — re-sign — DET 3y/37>39M/20g
->Clowney, 28, TEN (+run?gap) (DEC.knee.inj) [PFF:1/13] (later sign) — TEN, CLE, BAL
Ingram, 32, LAC (inj.h) [PFF:10/OTC:9] — LAC, LV, KC
-> Houston, 32, IND [PFF:2/18] — IND
—>Hyder, 30, SF (+2020;big+IQ+prod) — [OTC:11]
—>Bowser, 26, BAL +ST (cov+strong-fast-edge- re-Simon) [PFF:7/OTC:5-6] — re-signed — BAL 4y/22M12g
->Wise, 27, NE [PFF:7] — re-signed — NE 4y/22M/10g
->DL Autry, 31, IND (6’5-270) — TEN 3y/21.5M/9g
->Basham, 27, NYJ (?edge+run-ok rush+ST) [PFF:6] — DAL 2y/6.5M
>J.Jenkins, 27, NYJ (Georgia) (+edge-s+run;ok-rush) [3 [PFF:1/6] — HOU 2y/6M>8/
->R.Blair, 28, SF (opt-out; run+rush) (inj.h) — cut —
Reddick, 27, ARI [PFF:1/8] — CAR 1y/8M/6g
->DL Dunlap, 33, SEA (6’6-280) (14) — cut — BAL
->Griffen, 33, DET
->Curry, 33, PHI (vet min)
->McPhee, 33, BAL (vet min) - re-sign BAL
Kerrigan, 33 WAS (backup to Chase&Sweat)
Clayborn, 32, CLE — cut —
McKinley, 26, LV [PFF:9] — CLE 1y/4.3M/3.5g
A.Smith, 32, DAL [2y/15] -off.field DoV
Sheard, 32, NYG
Murphy, 30, BUF (decl)
->Gotsis, 29, JAX (6’4-287;+run)
Ebukam, 26, LAR — SF 2y/12M/5g
->Smoot, 26, JAX (+run) -- re-signed -- JAX 2y/10M/5.3g
Jihad Ward, 27, BAL (6’5-290) (rota.DE/DL) — JAX 1y/2.5M/2.5M
Attaochu, 28, DEN -- CHI
Simon, 31, NE [2]
Okafor, 30 KC
Kpassagnon, 27, KC
Golden, 28, ARI - re-sign — ARI 2y
>Mayowa, 30, SEA
M.Fox, 27, LAR — CAR 2y/8M/5g
Blackson, 29, ARI — CHI 2y/5.5M/3g
Muhammad, 26, IND
Weatherly, 27, CAR (6’5-265) — cut — MIN 1y/2.5M/0.5g
Charlton, 27, KC - KC 1y
Fackrell, 30, NYG
->R.Anderson, 27, WAS (NEfit:rot/b-up) —
C.Harris, 26, ATL — DET 1y/1.8Mg
Copeland, 30, NE
Calhoun, 29, NE
Willis, 26, SF (back-up)
Chickillo, 28, DEN
Scarlett, 28, HOU — MIA 1y/1.3M/0.6g
Mingo, 31, CHI
Rivers, 27, LAR — HOU 1y/3M
->Vernon, 31, CLE (achilles.jan’21) [PFF:1/2] —> sign later in the season

 

[Patriot Missile]

You think that Washington is going to toss a 3rd to move up 4 spots?? SMH... That's such wishful thinking..

The math equals out fine as far the draft value chart. NE 15=1050 Washington 19+82=1055. 875+180.

Have no idea how they feel about Mac Jones or the Qbs they have though.

 

[Patsgofor4]

and here is the list of edge FAs - those in grey are off the board


Judon, 29, BAL [PFF:16] — FT 20 — NE 4y/54.5M/30g
Barrett, 29, TB [PFF:17] —re-signed — TB 4y/68M>72/34.3g
JJ Watt, 32, HOU (17.5M) — cut — [18.5M/2y/ [PFF:2/25] — PIT, CLE, BUF, GB, ARI, TEN, LV — ARI 2y/28>31M/23g
Ngakoue, 26, BAL [PFF:17] — FT 15.5 — LV 2y/26M/21g
->Floyd, 29, LAR (Georgia) [PFF:13] — re-signed — 4y/64M/32.5g
->Dupree, 28, PIT (ACL.DEC>ok@TC) (?PIT DL effect) [PFF:1/10] — TEN 5y/82.5/33.8g
Lawson, 26 CIN (+pres) [15M/PFF:13/CIN:12] — NYJ 3y/45M/30g
Hendrickson, NO (run?) [PFF:11;OTC:13] — CIN 4y/60M/16g
->Okwara, 26, DET (+press?run) [10;PFF:1/6] — re-sign — DET 3y/37>39M/20g
->Clowney, 28, TEN (+run?gap) (DEC.knee.inj) [PFF:1/13] (later sign) — TEN, CLE, BAL
Ingram, 32, LAC (inj.h) [PFF:10/OTC:9] — LAC, LV, KC
-> Houston, 32, IND [PFF:2/18] — IND
—>Hyder, 30, SF (+2020;big+IQ+prod) — [OTC:11]
—>Bowser, 26, BAL +ST (cov+strong-fast-edge- re-Simon) [PFF:7/OTC:5-6] — re-signed — BAL 4y/22M12g
->Wise, 27, NE [PFF:7] — re-signed — NE 4y/22M/10g
->DL Autry, 31, IND (6’5-270) — TEN 3y/21.5M/9g
->Basham, 27, NYJ (?edge+run-ok rush+ST) [PFF:6] — DAL 2y/6.5M
>J.Jenkins, 27, NYJ (Georgia) (+edge-s+run;ok-rush) [3 [PFF:1/6] — HOU 2y/6M>8/
->R.Blair, 28, SF (opt-out; run+rush) (inj.h) — cut —
Reddick, 27, ARI [PFF:1/8] — CAR 1y/8M/6g
->DL Dunlap, 33, SEA (6’6-280) (14) — cut — BAL
->Griffen, 33, DET
->Curry, 33, PHI (vet min)
->McPhee, 33, BAL (vet min) - re-sign BAL
Kerrigan, 33 WAS (backup to Chase&Sweat)
Clayborn, 32, CLE — cut —
McKinley, 26, LV [PFF:9] — CLE 1y/4.3M/3.5g
A.Smith, 32, DAL [2y/15] -off.field DoV
Sheard, 32, NYG
Murphy, 30, BUF (decl)
->Gotsis, 29, JAX (6’4-287;+run)
Ebukam, 26, LAR — SF 2y/12M/5g
->Smoot, 26, JAX (+run) -- re-signed -- JAX 2y/10M/5.3g
Jihad Ward, 27, BAL (6’5-290) (rota.DE/DL) — JAX 1y/2.5M/2.5M
Attaochu, 28, DEN -- CHI
Simon, 31, NE [2]
Okafor, 30 KC
Kpassagnon, 27, KC
Golden, 28, ARI - re-sign — ARI 2y
>Mayowa, 30, SEA
M.Fox, 27, LAR — CAR 2y/8M/5g
Blackson, 29, ARI — CHI 2y/5.5M/3g
Muhammad, 26, IND
Weatherly, 27, CAR (6’5-265) — cut — MIN 1y/2.5M/0.5g
Charlton, 27, KC - KC 1y
Fackrell, 30, NYG
->R.Anderson, 27, WAS (NEfit:rot/b-up) —
C.Harris, 26, ATL — DET 1y/1.8Mg
Copeland, 30, NE
Calhoun, 29, NE
Willis, 26, SF (back-up)
Chickillo, 28, DEN
Scarlett, 28, HOU — MIA 1y/1.3M/0.6g
Mingo, 31, CHI
Rivers, 27, LAR — HOU 1y/3M
->Vernon, 31, CLE (achilles.jan’21) [PFF:1/2] —> sign later in the season

I almost had a seizure trying to read this post.

 

[Zuma]

I almost had a seizure trying to read this post.

I got my meds ready as soon as I saw that as well

 

[long distance]

DT (3-4/7) = 8-10M cap hit

DT1 (NT+rush) : TOMLINSON / Shelby Harris (8-10M apy) OPT2: NT > DaQuan Jones (5M apy) / Shelvin
DT2 : GUY (4M apy) / Anderson (cut) OPT2: DL > Wolfe / Rankins (6M apy)
DL: DRAFT: Nixon, McNeil, Togiai, Osa Odighizuwa
DT4 : Cowart (0.9M)
TC/PS: VET MIN(cut)/Spence + Barnett/Thurman/Murray + UDFA

EDGE (4/7-8) = 8-10M

DE run+rush HYDER / Houston / DRAFT D1/2: Paye / Basham
ED Winovich
OLB run BOWSER
OLB rush - Uche
(DE run/rush cheaper opt : Wise / Autry / Basham / Jenkins / Blair (cut) / Smoot / DRAFT D3: Turner
TC Bower - Berry - DRAFT D3 - UDFA

So this was my thinking going into FA.

BB did address NT in FA as expected but went for mid class option instead top of the market we wished for.
Godchaux is a similar player to Tomlinson (size, style), less accomplished. But gets the job done.
It was a pipe dream since it was a long time since BB spent big at this position and it was for big Vince.

Knowing how the market went Tomlinson was hardly an option. Not only bc he went above the projected price tag but also bc of the structure of his contract making it basically a 1y/16M contract.

Anderson was projected as target to go well with strong NT.

The revamping of DT was a bit underwhelming but was compensated by edge upgrade.
They did go with cheaper (but homegrown) projected option at DE (Wise) but they upgraded Simon greatly by adding my top PTP edge in Judon.
I hoped for Bowser never thinking BB would strike at the top and take the best Raven.

My projection had 16-20M of Cap Hit invested in revamping DL/edge - BB invested around 15M so far.

 

[long distance]

Here a nice short Godchaux signing study / Pat fit

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Ok, lets go position by position. I leave DB debate for now and return to it a bit later since it is completely speculative at this point (if they move on from Gilmore etc.)

Lets start with DE. You stated before that you see DE as a hole which is quite a stretch imo. But im interested to hear in what sense?

Looking at the roster you have 4 starting edge guys (Judon, Wino, Uche & Wise).
In addition you have 3 big LBs who can all play edge (High, KVN, Jennings)
And you have Anderson who can play big DE in 3 fronts as well.
Note that all of these guys except HT are signed at least for 2 years and are mostly young players developing or in prime.

What kind of DE are you missing, who are you replacing in the lineup, how many snaps per game you give him and how much are you willing to pay for that knowing what you are already paying for what you have on the roster?

I am not a football savant so please rip my thoughts apart to help me . Maybe I think too much in a 3 - 4 defensive alignment than a 4 -3 (although some note there is no real 3-4 or 4-3 - it is position less and nickel is our base).

To me Judon, Uche, Wino, KVN, Jennings and Hightower are LB. They are all 260 lbs and under. Judon, HT, KVN and hopefully Uche will start at LB. Wino is good on 3rd down - I am not sure he is strong enough otherwise. Jennings is still learning and is a good backup (someone will get injured).

For a Dlineman I want 275lbs and over. So Anderson, Wise (just barely) Godchaux, Davis, Adams are Dlineman to me. I believe Wise, Godchaux, Davis and Adams are inside guys, and having four provides a good rotation and depth. Anderson can play on the edge in 3 fronts as you note. That is only one guy. For third and long we can have two big boys on the inside and 9 others, but for 1st and 2nd I would like us to have the flexibility to have someone across from Anderson so we can play a big 3 front when required. Clowney could do that.

 

[long distance]

I am not a football savant so please rip my thoughts apart to help me . Maybe I think too much in a 3 - 4 defensive alignment than a 4 -3 (although some note there is no real 3-4 or 4-3 - it is position less and nickel is our base).

To me Judon, Uche, Wino, KVN, Jennings and Hightower are LB. They are all 260 lbs and under. Judon, HT, KVN and hopefully Uche will start at LB. Wino is good on 3rd down - I am not sure he is strong enough otherwise. Jennings is still learning and is a good backup (someone will get injured).

For a Dlineman I want 275lbs and over. So Anderson, Wise (just barely) Godchaux, Davis, Adams are Dlineman to me. I believe Wise, Godchaux, Davis and Adams are inside guys, and having four provides a good rotation and depth. Anderson can play on the edge in 3 fronts as you note. That is only one guy. For third and long we can have two big boys on the inside and 9 others, but for 1st and 2nd I would like us to have the flexibility to have someone across from Anderson so we can play a big 3 front when required. Clowney could do that.

Wise is bigger than Clowney and was/is playing exactly what you say much more than Clowney.

Don't get me wrong, i wouldn't mind Clowney at decent $ for exactly that kind of role if he was willing to add some lbs, but he sees himself as outside pass rusher which is probably one of the reasons why he is out there in FA so often and for so long..

But with Wise back id prefer another bigger body that can play 0-5T like Guy.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Wise is bigger than Clowney and was/is playing exactly what you say much more than Clowney.

Don't get me wrong, i wouldn't mind Clowney at decent $ for exactly that kind of role if he was willing to add some lbs, but he sees himself outside as predominantly pass rusher which is probably one of the reasons why he is out there in FA so often and for so long..

But with Wise back id prefer another bigger body that can play 0-5T like Guy.

You are right. I looked up Clowney after I posted and I thought he was bigger than he is. I MUCH prefer Judon to Clowney. I am not convinced that Wise or Wino were great on the edge last year, but Wise got an OK contract so let's hope he keeps developing. Okafor is out there but he is 30 and too small. Maybe you are right about a bigger body, my DE is not in FA I don't think. Every draft expert I listened to said this draft is very weak for big bodies so I do not know what to offer you .

 

[Biffins]

Here a nice short Godchaux signing study / Pat fit

Good. Positive media reactions on FA signings are allowed to be posted on this forum. Negative ones gets your thread locked and you banned.

 

[long distance]

You are right. I looked up Clowney after I posted and I thought he was bigger than he is. I MUCH prefer Judon to Clowney. I am not convinced that Wise or Wino were great on the edge last year, but Wise got an OK contract so let's hope he keeps developing. Okafor is out there but he is 30 and too small. Maybe you are right about a bigger body, my DE is not in FA I don't think. Every draft expert I listened to said this draft is very weak for big bodies so I do not know what to offer you .

There could be still some bargain options later in FA esp. w older guys that i wouldn't mind on a 1y deal either inside rushers or bigger DE
(Atkins, Casey, Short, Dunlap, Griffen, Curry). Maybe some of them have a season left.

If Hyder, Houston, Blair cant find a decent gig id be interested as well. Gotsis on a min contract maybe, some reclamations from 2017 draft..

They did sign Adams who looked to be that 0-5T option but did not show it in NFL much so we'll see if he can make it as Foxboro reclamation project.

 

[Ring 6]

I am not a football savant so please rip my thoughts apart to help me . Maybe I think too much in a 3 - 4 defensive alignment than a 4 -3 (although some note there is no real 3-4 or 4-3 - it is position less and nickel is our base).

To me Judon, Uche, Wino, KVN, Jennings and Hightower are LB. They are all 260 lbs and under. Judon, HT, KVN and hopefully Uche will start at LB. Wino is good on 3rd down - I am not sure he is strong enough otherwise. Jennings is still learning and is a good backup (someone will get injured).

For a Dlineman I want 275lbs and over. So Anderson, Wise (just barely) Godchaux, Davis, Adams are Dlineman to me. I believe Wise, Godchaux, Davis and Adams are inside guys, and having four provides a good rotation and depth. Anderson can play on the edge in 3 fronts as you note. That is only one guy. For third and long we can have two big boys on the inside and 9 others, but for 1st and 2nd I would like us to have the flexibility to have someone across from Anderson so we can play a big 3 front when required. Clowney could do that.

The base D is 2 DT and 4 players from the LB/DE group of which many can be called either.
So traditionally you have a 425
2 300lb+ DTs say Judon and winovich as DEs and HT and KVN as LBs.
However many of these players can play DE or LB. HT and KVN are particularly versatile and can play any of the 4 spots. So you can have HT, KVN and Judon playing any 3 of the 4 and mix and match the 4th based upon opponent, situation, down and distance. Winovich, Uche, Wise, Jennings all bring different skill sets as that 4th guy.
Add to that the fact that Belichick will line them in many different alignments with different calls to attack a certain area and you see why the boogeymen gave people fits.
In 19 with Collins here was the only time we mostly use one guys more considered a DE with 3 considered mostly LBs as the “starters”. That’s because of the versatility of HT and KVN. Most years it’s been really more like a 42 than a 33. But there really is no defining because most of the time you don’t know whether to classify these guys LBs or DEs until the play is over.

FYI you left Cowart out.

 

[long distance]

@RB

Position that is moving slowest and still has plenty to choose from is RB.
Patriots were reportedly in the big RB market (Carson, Fournette) early in FA. t is the only position they haven't added any FA yet.

Assuming they keep Bolden (not a given) this is how depth looks like atm:

RB (6-7) - 37D.Harris (24, 2022, $1), 26Michel* (26, 2021+1, $3), 42JJ.Taylor (23, 2022, $0,8), 38Bolden* (31, 2021, $2)

Pats usually carry 6-7 RBs to TC so it is very likely they will add at least one vet.

Here remaining RB market:

A.Jones, 26, GB [9-11] — GB 4y/48M/13g
>Carson, 26, SEA [PFF:9/OTC:8] — re-signed — SEA 2y/14.6Mmax
Drake, 27, ARI [PFF:6] — LV 2y/11>14.5M/8.5-11g
Fournette, 26, TB — TB,
>LV Bell, 29, KC [PFF:2/10]
Gurley, 27, ATL
M.Davis, 28, CAR [2y/8.5]
Conner, 26, PIT [PFF:6]
->McKinnon, 29, SF (+PP+rec)
->J.White, 29, NE [PFF:2/10] — GB
->Burkhead, 31, NE (w11-ACL) [PFF:1/1.5]
->D.Johnson, 28, HOU (6.4) (+fit+rec?rush.TD) — cut —
Jam.Williams, 26, GB [PFF:3] — DET 2y/6M/3.3g
C.Hyde, 30, SEA [2.5] — JAX 2y/4.5M/1.4g
Mack, 25, IND [PFF:1/2.5] — re-signed —IND 1y/2M/2g
Ingram, 31, NO — HOU 1y/2.5>3M/0.5g
J.Howard, 26, PHI
>Chris Thompson, 30, JAX (+rec+2017)
Breida, 26, MIA (+rec)
Gallman, 26, NYG
D.Lewis, 30, NYG
> C.Clement, 26, PHI
T.Coleman, 28, SF

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

You are right. I looked up Clowney after I posted and I thought he was bigger than he is. I MUCH prefer Judon to Clowney. I am not convinced that Wise or Wino were great on the edge last year, but Wise got an OK contract so let's hope he keeps developing. Okafor is out there but he is 30 and too small. Maybe you are right about a bigger body, my DE is not in FA I don't think. Every draft expert I listened to said this draft is very weak for big bodies so I do not know what to offer you .

You mean big bodies at DE or DT?

BTW i think Clowney would be an insane DE here. Really good run stopper. He just wants to get paid like a top tier DE which he hasn't shown due to his lack of pass rush production and injuries in 2019 and 2020 season. But before that he had good 2017/2018 seasons with 9/ 9.5 sacks. I don't think we can't afford him with CB/RB needs and some money for draft and during the season additions. Need to get some restructures first i think, but BB probably could manage to limit his this year cap hit

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

You mean big bodies at DE or DT?

BTW i think Clowney would be an insane DE here. Really good run stopper. He just wants to get paid like a top tier DE which he hasn't shown due to his lack of pass rush production and injuries in 2019 and 2020 season. But before that he had good 2017/2018 seasons with 9/ 9.5 sacks. I don't think we can't afford him with CB/RB needs and some money for draft and during the season additions. Need to get some restructures first i think, but BB probably could manage to limit his this year cap hit

I think big bodies might be the wrong label. We are not suppose to talk about the draft here, but someone like Kwity can add some muscle and be 280+lbs, set the edge against a top flight offensive tackle and get 5+ sacks a year. That is the type of guy I want anchoring the end of the line.

Godchaux, Adams, etc., are all big bodies, and inside guys, but not mobile enough on the end. Wise, for whatever reason, is a good backup for the DEnd, but he is average at best (lacks the explosiveness). Anderson is a big boy, can set the edge but averages 2 sacks a year. It would be nice to add an Anderson type that is at 5+ sacks a year. I think that changes our flexibility because we have some fast guys at LB now, Winovich and Judon 4.7 forty, Uche 4.6 forty, plus Dugger at 4.48 and Phillips at 4.58. With another DEnd we could really mix things up and get after the QB.

@long distance notes there are some guys in FA who are older which I concede. Maybe that is the route we have to go, but adding one of those or Clowney (0 sacks last year) does not excite me.

I think BB will trade down, pick up a 3rd, and chose a DEnd in the 1st round because there really aren't any good choices out there. Maybe BB knows the remaining FA options still available have few choices so he is waiting them out, because like James White, it might be a long road ahead for them. Maybe an older FA on a 1 year contract with a draft choice too? You are much better at judging football talent than me. Does that make sense?

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I think big bodies might be the wrong label. We are not suppose to talk about the draft here, but someone like Kwity can add some muscle and be 280+lbs, set the edge against a top flight offensive tackle and get 5+ sacks a year. That is the type of guy I want anchoring the end of the line.

I agree this would be agreat addition on the other side of Judon a DE who can play all Downs and a Wise upgrade. I actually read somewhere idk where it was that Paye told some guys he dropped pounds to play better at the edge in NFL and that he is closer to 260 now. Need to look at Michigan pro day here to see if it's true. I hoped he would go the other direction more to 280 like you mentioned. But his athletic should be nice. I don't want to dive into the DE draft class too much cause it's the wrong thread, but either Rousseau/Phillips/Oweh are more 260 pound dudes than 280. They certainly have the frame for it with nice size but esp. Oweh excels with his quickness and athletic. Ran faster than Horn (CB) at the pro Day i think.

Godchaux, Adams, etc., are all big bodies, and inside guys, but not mobile enough on the end. Wise, for whatever reason, is a good backup for the DEnd, but he is average at best (lacks the explosiveness). Anderson is a big boy, can set the edge but averages 2 sacks a year. It would be nice to add an Anderson type that is at 5+ sacks a year. I think that changes our flexibility because we have some fast guys at LB now, Winovich and Judon 4.7 forty, Uche 4.6 forty, plus Dugger at 4.48 and Phillips at 4.58. With another DEnd we could really mix things up and get after the QB.

I agree this would be huge ! Esp. since those bigger types can rush from inside on third downs with the speedy guys coming of the edge or stunt to inside.

@long distance notes there are some guys in FA who are older which I concede. Maybe that is the route we have to go, but adding one of those or Clowney (0 sacks last year) does not excite me.

Dunlap is another Name who would fit that with size and pass rush but he probably costs too much. I did not see many of the other guys playing so don't know who fits that as well..yep clowney is probably too expensive for his production rn. He fits the PTP i think with his ability to set the edge against the run but highly doubt due to money i think.

I think BB will trade down, pick up a 3rd, and chose a DEnd in the 1st round because there really aren't any good choices out there. Maybe BB knows the remaining FA options still available have few choices so he is waiting them out, because like James White, it might be a long road ahead for them. Maybe an older FA on a 1 year contract with a draft choice too? You are much better at judging football talent than me. Does that make sense?

I think this makes perfect sense. I don't see Wise as a longterm starter there on the other DE Position either. He is a solid role player but starting caliber idk. The trade down scenario you mentioned would be nice cause I think there can be an Oweh/Phillips type of player still be available between 21-32. And I think they provide the same value as others at 15 available when the blue chip players are gone. Maybe bring in one of the vet DE for 1 year Deal with sack incentives idk or 2 year and structure the contract to lower their this years cap hit. I'd be happy with this. Maybe even Collins is available after a trade down. Future HT/KVN replacement.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I agree this would be agreat addition on the other side of Judon a DE who can play all Downs and a Wise upgrade. I actually read somewhere idk where it was that Paye told some guys he dropped pounds to play better at the edge in NFL and that he is closer to 260 now. Need to look at Michigan pro day here to see if it's true. I hoped he would go the other direction more to 280 like you mentioned. But his athletic should be nice. I don't want to dive into the DE draft class too much cause it's the wrong thread, but either Rousseau/Phillips/Oweh are more 260 pound dudes than 280. They certainly have the frame for it with nice size but esp. Oweh excels with his quickness and athletic. Ran faster than Horn (CB) at the pro Day i think.

I agree this would be huge ! Esp. since those bigger types can rush from inside on third downs with the speedy guys coming of the edge or stunt to inside.

Dunlap is another Name who would fit that with size and pass rush but he probably costs too much. I did not see many of the other guys playing so don't know who fits that as well..yep clowney is probably too expensive for his production rn. He fits the PTP i think with his ability to set the edge against the run but highly doubt due to money i think.

I think this makes perfect sense. I don't see Wise as a longterm starter there on the other DE Position either. He is a solid role player but starting caliber idk. The trade down scenario you mentioned would be nice cause I think there can be an Oweh/Phillips type of player still be available between 21-32. And I think they provide the same value as others at 15 available when the blue chip players are gone. Maybe bring in one of the vet DE for 1 year Deal with sack incentives idk or 2 year and structure the contract to lower their this years cap hit. I'd be happy with this. Maybe even Collins is available after a trade down. Future HT/KVN replacement.

I would prefer Dunlap over Clowney in FA Phase II, but he is 32 so how long of a contract does he want? He is not stupid - next year at 33 the salary cap might be higher, but he is outside the "age window", so I doubt he is a 1 year option. Not sure what the 32 to 34 year olds are thinking - very tough spot for them. Seattle did not retain Dunlap after trading for him, so who knows.

I saw that the Giants are pursuing Adoree Jackson so that means an overpay, so can forget him as a Gilmore replacement for now.

It is tough to consider Phase II FAs without thinking what they provide versus a potential draft pick. But we have to try It is nice to have a few threads without the same 5 or 6 people arguing the same silly meaningless details.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I would prefer Dunlap over Clowney in FA Phase II, but he is 32 so how long of a contract does he want? He is not stupidy - next year at 33 the salary cap might be higher, but he is outside the "age window", so I doubt he is a 1 year option. Not sure what the 32 to 34 year olds are thinking - very tough spot for them. Seattle did not retain Dunlap after trading for him, so who knows.

Yep, although idk about the seahawks cap situation. They also had a high salary for dunlap. He showed he is still really good when healthy and more reliable than i first thought given his age. 15 Games last season.

I saw that the Giants are pursuing Adoree Jackson so that means an overpay, so can forget him as a Gilmore replacement for now.

true, but anyway i'd like a Gilmore extension.

It is tough to consider Phase II FAs without thinking what they provide versus a potential draft pick. But we have to try

I guess that even though some of the best DE's in this class, they need time to develop into an every down role. Situational help for sure in year 1 and depth but probably won't start in our defense in early downs due to BB's value to play your gaps discipline.

 

[long distance]

appreciate the discussion @One-If-By-Sea, @patsfanfromoversea
and Draft discussion combined with FA is not only ok but part of original idea - so by all means
(just didn't see sense dropping qb fantasies/trade up scenarios here ad nauseam since there are several threads specifically for that)

re edge/DL

When thinking of signing another big name DE/edge it makes sense to count the snaps you already signed.

Judon - 3 down edge player - run + rush/push + set edge + contain + coverage = 2y/32M = 80%
Wise - edge rotation + situational inside rush/DL = 2y/12M = 50%
Wino - edge rotation + situational pass rusher = 60% (2020)
this is rotation considering last yrs # + projected Judon role and contract #
add
Uche - situational pass rusher + coverage from edge
Anderson - big DL sets edge

DT rotation

Godchaux - NT/DT = 2y/15M = 60%
Anderson - DT/DE = 2y/7M = 40-50%
DT depth - C.Davis, Cowart, Adams (Spence) = ?

Looking at this id be looking to add DT/DE much more than another DE.. and that includes Guy

Draft is another matter although id be surprised if they go edge/DE high (unless its LB like Collins)

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

appreciate the discussion @One-If-By-Sea, @patsfanfromoversea
and Draft discussion combined with FA is not only ok but part of original idea - so by all means
(just didn't see sense dropping qb fantasies/trade up scenarios here ad nauseam since there are several threads specifically for that)

re edge/DL

When thinking of signing another big name DE/edge it makes sense to count the snaps you already signed.

Judon - 3 down edge player - run + rush/push + set edge + contain + coverage = 2y/32M = 80%
Wise - edge rotation + situational inside rush/DL = 2y/12M = 50%
Wino - edge rotation + situational pass rusher = 60% (2020)
this is rotation considering last yrs # + projected Judon role and contract #
add
Uche - situational pass rusher + coverage from edge
Anderson - big DL sets edge

DT rotation

Godchaux - NT/DT = 2y/15M = 60%
Anderson - DT/DE = 2y/7M = 40-50%
DT depth - C.Davis, Cowart, Adams (Spence) = ?

Looking at this id be looking to add DT/DE much more than another DE.. and that includes Guy

Draft is another matter although id be surprised if they go edge/DE high (unless its LB like Collins)

Thanks. I am not sure the 2020 line play is what we need in 2021, and accordingly I am hoping that the use of Wise and Wino is more targeted. Correspondingly, I am hoping that their playing time % goes down. I still like them as players but am not sure we will be a championship caliber team with Wino and Wise at 60% and 50% respectively.

Trenches, trenches, trenches - I am still hoping for a Dunlop or Paye (or equivalent) signing.