Gilmore traded to Carolina

[Pape]

I think we all knew a deal wasn't going to happen between the team and gilly... i dont think he was going to step on the field for us this year... not for a prorated 7 million dollar salary...

I also think a lot of people have overvalued a 31 year old cb coming off a bad injury in search of a new deal...

was a 6th enough? probably not... but we weren't getting a 3rd, let alone a 1st or 2nd... and if the panthers were the only team to offer a pick, then im fine with it...

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

In 2016, in preparation of a season of obvious championship contention, the Patriots accepted best offer for Chandler Jones, while fans were baffled how a second round pick was fair comp for a player the Cardinals would break the bank for soon after. Yes, I know the Patriots won that year, but follow the philosophy. The team has done this many times, getting whatever they can for a still-productive player and moving on. The market is the market. Remember that.

Now in the 2020 offseason, with Brady gone and the team not realistically contending for a championship, the idea of just taking “best market offer” is somehow no longer the way to go. There’s a high asking price. Breer notes no team is giving up a first round pick because of Gilmore’s age (not a Gilmore thing but just a league-wide standard), but a second or third round pick could happen. A second round pick was enough for them to move on from Jones and Garoppolo.



And at the trade deadline, with postseason hopes looking bleak, still holding out for a first round pick. And this with Gilmore‘s untenable contract situation coming up in 2021.



What am I missing here? From unrealistically demanding a first round pick, to still unrealistically demanding a first round pick when the season was effectively over, to a sixth round pick in 2023? Tell me this isn’t a dysfunctional decision making process, in line with the rest of the “opposite day” day moves they’ve been churning our for a few years.

 

[venecol]

He's a bum. Old and washed up. I'm glad he's gone. Good riddance. Team should've paid to get rid of him. What does $10M in dead money mean.

 

[Pape]

What am I missing here? From unrealistically demanding a first round pick, to still unrealistically demanding a first round pick when the season was effectively over, to a sixth round pick in 2023? Tell me this isn’t a dysfunctional decision making process, in line with the rest of the “opposite day” day moves they’ve been churning our for a few years.

Unrealistic expectations all the way round, due to hypercritical assessments of BB based on him letting Brady walk out the door?

You bring up chandler jones and jimmy g - Jones was 25 years old when that deal was made... Jimmy, the same... both looking for their first paydays... players in their prime...

Gilly is now 31, coming off a bad injury, looking for his last payday... huge difference, no?

This is part of the same decision making process thts been going on here since Lawyer Milloy was kicked to the curb in 2003... You have basically become Tom Jackson...

 

[venecol]

Interesting, not only is @Ice_Ice_Brady old AF, he's not even American. STFU dude, really.

 

[1960Pats]

Patriots fans have laughed at teams like the Redskins and Dolphins for years because they go out and spend a fortune in free agency then never win anything. Somehow we thought it would be different around here and so far outside of Judon most of the new additions have been busts.

Most of the new additions have been on offense. That combined with a rookie QB means that we're off to a slow start. Hang in there.

 

[1960Pats]

So wait..is that supposed to own the BB critics? Again, the question from “the Bill haters” was why not trade Gilmore for the best offer in the 2020 offseason, since Brady is gone, you need draft capital, and the Brady split would be a lot more logical if they were hitting the reset button.

And remember…a year too early is better than a year too late…was the motto during championship window seasons. Just look at all the controversy from 2017-19.

So, seems like a no-brainer? No, because despite the BS spin, the Patriots were clearly as all-in as possible in 2020. Not only did they punt on a Gilmore trade, with teams interested according to reports, they increased his salary by $5M.

So now, an article saying Gilmore’s play was slipping in 2020, meaning his trade value was wasted, and he was “a year too late”, is supposed to make this all look better somehow? It‘s the opposite. And Bill telling everyone how they had no chance to compete, and fans buying it? No way.

The short moves made in 2020 (Slater, McCourty, Thuney, Gilmore decision) were actually a major deviation of their typical MO. Despite not having Brady, they went completely into an all-in mode trading short-term wins for long-term missed opportunities. Out of character to shun future considerations at the very time you’d most need to look at future considerations. More and more this looks like Bill wanted to have a **** measuring contest in 2020 with Brady, and showing the team wouldn’t miss a step under him.

There's been talk around here that Bill doesn't hold grudges. I disagree. That could be why he sent Garoppolo to SF for less than he could have received from the Browns.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

In 2016, in preparation of a season of obvious championship contention, the Patriots accepted best offer for Chandler Jones, while fans were baffled how a second round pick was fair comp for a player the Cardinals would break the bank for soon after. Yes, I know the Patriots won that year, but follow the philosophy. The team has done this many times, getting whatever they can for a still-productive player and moving on. The market is the market. Remember that.

Now in the 2020 offseason, with Brady gone and the team not realistically contending for a championship, the idea of just taking “best market offer” is somehow no longer the way to go. There’s a high asking price. Breer notes no team is giving up a first round pick because of Gilmore’s age (not a Gilmore thing but just a league-wide standard), but a second or third round pick could happen. A second round pick was enough for them to move on from Jones and Garoppolo.



And at the trade deadline, with postseason hopes looking bleak, still holding out for a first round pick. And this with Gilmore‘s untenable contract situation coming up in 2021.



What am I missing here? From unrealistically demanding a first round pick, to still unrealistically demanding a first round pick when the season was effectively over, to a sixth round pick in 2023? Tell me this isn’t a dysfunctional decision making process, in line with the rest of the “opposite day” day moves they’ve been churning our for a few years.

Ziegler is in way over his head.

And Caserio was checked out the moment he was blocked the first time from interviewing elsewhere.

.

 

[archstanton543]

There's been talk around here that Bill doesn't hold grudges. I disagree. That could be why he sent Garoppolo to SF for less than he could have received from the Browns.

There's no evidence that "deal" was on the table. It was speculation from the Browns media.

 

[1960Pats]

Mayo was already on the team. Seymour was traded in 2009 and couldn't use the pick until 2011 which it was used on Solder. It was a terrible trade as Seymour could've been useful in 2009 when Ray Rice went wild and in 2010 as Mark Sanchez of all QB's tore up the Pats in the AFCDG. Probably useful as well a year later in the 2011 Super Bowl.

There was a lot of complaining about the Big Sey trade and the Pats didn't win again for many years after he left. The only solace was that we had the Raiduhs 1st round pick and they stunk. Unfortunately, they managed to get to the middle of the pack by the time we drafted.

 

[Ring 6]

Unrealistic expectations all the way round, due to hypercritical assessments of BB based on him letting Brady walk out the door?

You bring up chandler jones and jimmy g - Jones was 25 years old when that deal was made... Jimmy, the same... both looking for their first paydays... players in their prime...

Gilly is now 31, coming off a bad injury, looking for his last payday... huge difference, no?

This is part of the same decision making process thts been going on here since Lawyer Milloy was kicked to the curb in 2003... You have basically become Tom Jackson...

Yeah it’s a crappy argument. Arguing that Gilmore should have been traded before 2020 because of Jones ignores that Jones was in the final year of his contract. Gilmore had 2 years left and was the best player on the team. Arguing we should have given up because we lost some guys says 2001 should never have happened.
It’s not, thank God, within the dna of bill belichick to say it looks like it may be a tough year coming off a 12-4 season so let’s not try to be the best we can, let’s give up. Even if you give up in 2020 to rebuild with 80 mill of cap room in 2021, why would you give away your best player who is under contract for 2021?
The injury changed things dramatically. Hindsight is 20/20.

Besides, if Gilmore was traded for a pick they would already be calling that pick a bust and saying we should have kept Gilmore.

 

[Ring 6]

There's no evidence that "deal" was on the table. It was speculation from the Browns media.

And clearly wrong.

 

[Ring 6]

as

Patriots fans have laughed at teams like the Redskins and Dolphins for years because they go out and spend a fortune in free agency then never win anything. Somehow we thought it would be different around here and so far outside of Judon most of the new additions have been busts.

What did you want the patriots to do with cap space they had?
Try using some critical thinking.
The appropriate criticism of other teams is when they have major holes and instead of using their cap space to fill many they drool over the most sought after guys and overlay, leaving holes.
The patriots replaced half of their starters and close to half of their reserves. They literally create the cap space to overhaul the roster. And they were able to do it with quality starters, not low priced under the radar long shots because of the cap space they had. That is nothing like what the jets skins or dolphins had done.
But by all means, please explain what better approach to the 2021 off season you would have taken.

 

[jah]

So wait..is that supposed to own the BB critics? Again, the question from “the Bill haters” was why not trade Gilmore for the best offer in the 2020 offseason, since Brady is gone, you need draft capital, and the Brady split would be a lot more logical if they were hitting the reset button.

And remember…a year too early is better than a year too late…was the motto during championship window seasons. Just look at all the controversy from 2017-19.

So, seems like a no-brainer? No, because despite the BS spin, the Patriots were clearly as all-in as possible in 2020. Not only did they punt on a Gilmore trade, with teams interested according to reports, they increased his salary by $5M.

So now, an article saying Gilmore’s play was slipping in 2020, meaning his trade value was wasted, and he was “a year too late”, is supposed to make this all look better somehow? It‘s the opposite. And Bill telling everyone how they had no chance to compete, and fans buying it? No way.

The short moves made in 2020 (Slater, McCourty, Thuney, Gilmore decision) were actually a major deviation of their typical MO. Despite not having Brady, they went completely into an all-in mode trading short-term wins for long-term missed opportunities. Out of character to shun future considerations at the very time you’d most need to look at future considerations. More and more this looks like Bill wanted to have a **** measuring contest in 2020 with Brady, and showing the team wouldn’t miss a step under him.

I agree with the general sentiment that our trade philosophy has been a bit counterintuitive lately, but I don't think pointing out why Gilmore's trade value was so low this year is necessarily a defense of BB's handling of the situation. I found it interesting information regardless of who was "owned".

 

[jah]

There was a lot of complaining about the Big Sey trade and the Pats didn't win again for many years after he left. The only solace was that we had the Raiduhs 1st round pick and they stunk. Unfortunately, they managed to get to the middle of the pack by the time we drafted.

That was pretty funny, the one year we had the Raiders pick was by far their best season in that general window of time (a dominant 8-8). Of course.

 

[PP2]

There's been talk around here that Bill doesn't hold grudges. I disagree. That could be why he sent Garoppolo to SF for less than he could have received from the Browns.

BB may or may not hold grudges, but he never lets it get in the way of business. Case in point: resigning Collins a 3rd time. There are a number of players who left disgruntled or were traded over contract breakdowns but resigned down the road (Dieon Branch, etc).

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Interesting, not only is @Ice_Ice_Brady old AF, he's not even American. STFU dude, really.

View attachment 36446

My personal identity is my business.. delete this at once. (Not that this is me…it might be, but I’m not telling.). (It is.)

 

[amfootball]

It is time to really look at the $165 we spent critically. Was it spent wisely? Why was none spent on upgrading the QB room around Mac?
Should we have signed Thuney? Was trading for Brown a terrible idea? The Sony trade? Lots to debate IMO.

 

[50-yard-line]

It is time to really look at the $165 we spent critically. Was it spent wisely?

Yes. Absolutely.

Why was none spent on upgrading the QB room around Mac?

Why?

Should we have signed Thuney?

Should we have ironed it out before frnachising him is probably the more pertinent question. They were in on him to the end, by all reports, but that Chiefs deal is really, really sweet.

Was trading for Brown a terrible idea?

Looking pretty ****ty in hindsight right now. If he's not milking it and his calf heals and he gets bac in there in the next couple of weeks nad plays well, then he's be worth what they paid him.

The Sony trade?

Hated it and still do. But here's hoping that Stevenson and Taylor can grow up fast and play like they're capable of playing.

Lots to debate IMO.

 

[mgteich]

It is time to really look at the $165 we spent critically. Was it spent wisely? Why was none spent on upgrading the QB room around Mac?
Should we have signed Thuney? Was trading for Brown a terrible idea? The Sony trade? Lots to debate IMO.

We can always debate individual moves after the fact. We always think that we could done better in 100% hindsight.

DEFENSE
1) On the DL, we added Godchaux and Barmore. [also Anderson who was injured]
2) At LB, we brought in Judon and Van Noy {and Collins] to add to Hightower, Bentley and Uche. [We also drafted a potential future contributor in Perkins].
3) At DB, we brought in Mills [and now Wade]. We hope to get some future contributions from Williams, Bryant and/or Wade.. For now, we are very strong with Jackson, Mills, Jones, McCourty, Phillips and Dugger.
4) This is in addition to the re-signings.

We had a fine defense last year. We now have a better defense. Even so early in the season, this defense looks very good.
==================
OFFENSE
1) All the offensive weapons are new except Meyers. [We also return Harry, Asiasi and Johnson].
2) It will take time for a rookie QB and 4 new receivers to learn the offense and perform well together. All five of the newbies won't be as productive as we expected. After all, we do need something to complain about.
3) The situation at OT is as many of us feared. We needed more OT help, we need OT help, we will need OT help. Many of us (not me) disagree with the team and want to move of our future pro-bowl LG to RT. Let me be clear. Wynn-Karras is not a good idea. Karras is a fine Game Day backup at RG, LG and C. I could see us spending a 3rd rounder on an OT.
4) I strongly disagreed with Taylor making the team over Michel. Others would have weakened our ST's and cut Bolden. Why not Slater or Bethel? Belichick values Bolden as a STer. Stevenson has been a disappointment. Now, we need to trader for a RB. I guess this business as usual. After 3 disappointments at RB, obviously we need a RB.

So, yes, our offense has a long way to go to be a competitive offense. I'm not at all surprised. I certainly didn't expect a solid offense by Game 4 with two new WR's, 2 new TE's and a new QB. Also, we have lost our backup and 3rd down back. The offense is performing much better than I expected.