Gilmore traded to Carolina

[TomPatriot]

He was DPOY in 2019. I think a 1 or 2 was for sure on the table at the start of FA in 2020.

Bill traded Seymour when he was 30 for #1 which turned into Mayo. We really need to him to start GMing that way again. The problem is he has lost his draft hand for some time now.

You don’t address the cap space issue. Few teams had cap space which limits his market. No doubt they would have received more than a 6 but no way he nets a 1 and probably not a 2. Who went to the Pats with an offer that high? No one I know of.

 

[TomPatriot]

If Mac gets injured due to the O line, it will be the beginning of the end for Bill. If Tom Brady isn't off limits, Bill shouldn't be either.

Bob will eventually talk to Bill and give Bill the option to step down on his own if we see a losing season this year and next.

The way this Gilmore situation played out was horrendous.

Bill gets the rest of this year and probably all of next year to “Chaim Bloom” this team. After next year, if the aren’t at least a playoff team, he’ll probably step down. That’s my guess fwiw.

 

[bresna]

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/...fl-teams-didnt-like-stephon-gilmore-2020-tape

To those wondering why he didn't garner a higher pick:

 

[TheRainMaker]

He was DPOY in 2019. I think a 1 or 2 was for sure on the table at the start of FA in 2020.

Bill traded Seymour when he was 30 for #1 which turned into Mayo. We really need to him to start GMing that way again. The problem is he has lost his draft hand for some time now.

Mayo was already on the team. Seymour was traded in 2009 and couldn't use the pick until 2011 which it was used on Solder. It was a terrible trade as Seymour could've been useful in 2009 when Ray Rice went wild and in 2010 as Mark Sanchez of all QB's tore up the Pats in the AFCDG. Probably useful as well a year later in the 2011 Super Bowl.

 

[PScottman]

most of the new additions have been busts.

I'm just curious what your definition of "bust" is? It seems pretty extreme - as in - not leading the league or at least top two or three in some statistical marking by game four equals a bust.

That's a lot of "busts" league-wide then.

To be fair - as a clarifying example N. Harry is 100% a bust. Enough statistical data to state unequivocally he has not provided on the field production. That is 100% Belichick's fault for choosing him. As such my definition is a player that makes no statistical contributions whatsoever over the course of a season so much so that another player has to replace him. In short, the roster spot is wasted so much so that another one has to be used.

So you have the criteria, the timeframe, and the measurability.

 

[venecol]

I'm just curious what your definition of "bust" is? It seems pretty extreme - as in - not leading the league or at least top two or three in some statistical marking by game four equals a bust.

That's a lot of "busts" league-wide then.

To be fair - as a clarifying example N. Harry is 100% a bust. Enough statistical data to state unequivocally he has not provided on the field production. That is 100% Belichick's fault for choosing him. As such my definition is a player that makes no statistical contributions whatsoever over the course of a season so much so that another player has to replace him. In short, the roster spot is wasted so much so that another one has to be used.

So you have the criteria, the timeframe, and the measurability.

My criteria is a little less stringent. If a player screws up on a play during a game he's a bust. At least while I'm on the GDT.

 

[PScottman]

My criteria is a little less stringent. If a player screws up on a play during a game he's a bust. At least while I'm on the GDT.

I appreciate the admission and putting it writing as well.

Not that my appreciation means anything...the odds that I'm a childless dying billionaire just looking for one last good deed doer upon which to bequeath my ill gotten gains are pretty damn long.

 

[203Pat]

I'm just curious what your definition of "bust" is? It seems pretty extreme - as in - not leading the league or at least top two or three in some statistical marking by game four equals a bust.

That's a lot of "busts" league-wide then.

To be fair - as a clarifying example N. Harry is 100% a bust. Enough statistical data to state unequivocally he has not provided on the field production. That is 100% Belichick's fault for choosing him. As such my definition is a player that makes no statistical contributions whatsoever over the course of a season so much so that another player has to replace him. In short, the roster spot is wasted so much so that another one has to be used.

So you have the criteria, the timeframe, and the measurability.

Granted it’s still early but I’d say outside of Judon and Mills most the other signings have been disappointing so far. I agree bust may be too harsh so I’ll walk that back. I was hoping for a little more of an impact from HH and a little bit more of a game breaking aspect from Jonnu Smith and so far we haven’t seen it. Not sure why we aren’t trying to hit them in the seam down the middle like we used to. It’s not like only Gronk can run that route as we saw them at least attempt it with Izzo and Lacosse. Godchaux and Agholor haven’t done a whole lot. Bourne has at least made a few plays so there might be some hope there going forward.

 

[Tony2046]

Lol what are we doing here?

Making shyt up apparently.

 

[Ring 6]

GB had absolutely no excuse as this is their last chance at a title which could be for a long time.

Why is it their last chance at a title?

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Why is it their last chance at a title?

Assuming this is Rodgers last year in GB.

 

[Ring 6]

Thing is, I don't think the reset is over. We still have a lot of older players playing key spots, like McCourty and Hightower, ones that aren't easy to replace. The Collins signing shows younger players aren't stepping up. The Judon signing was excellent but shows we had to go to FA to get talent. We saw how reliant we were on an aging play maker like James White even after adding young exciting RBs and now that he got injured we see it even more.

Ranking NFL teams by age after 53-man cutdowns: 2021 edition says we're still the 28th oldest team. Age isn't everything (the GOAT alone makes that case) but still I don't feel we've done a full reset.

This offseason will be interesting. I think there will be a lot of turnover. I think we now know what direction we are going in with regard to QB and having a QB1 on a rookie contract will allow for a lot of moves. I think the thinking will become more focused on the long term and adding younger players (and keeping ones like Meyers) will be a priority.

Every team is a combination of young and older players. Most teams rely on older players because they got to be older players by being good.

 

[Ring 6]

Assuming this is Rodgers last year in GB.

You mean we think Rodgers gives them a legit chance to win a championship?

 

[TheRainMaker]

You mean we think Rodgers gives them a legit chance to win a championship?

Their chances are worse without him.

 

[Biffins]

There's still time for the TEs but so far we are throwing 5 yard passes to receivers. That could change and we could start to better use them but even if we do the point is still valid. If you get a chance to sign a Kittle that's one thing but to bring in these 2 guys at top5 salary is just curious.

This is not a surprise. The moment they were signed it was pointed out by several people in the media, as well as lots of discussions on this forums, that these guys weren't worth the money we were paying for them.

Then we were critisized that when BB DIDN'T spend for Brady, we critisized him and when he DID spend on some players, we're critisizing him. Well you know what, it's still the same debate. He has made significant GM gambles recently and he deserves the credit when they work out and the blame when they don't. Belichick is clearly a great coach, and he had a decent run as a great GM.............. but he's clearly not a great GM any more. He's living on past glory. What next? We're going to talk about how he brought Moss in, or Rodney, or Vrabel etc. More GM stuff from 15-20 years ago. His last 4-5 years as GM have been at least bad and possibly very bad, and been bailed out by good coaching (by himself) and good legacy players (who have now left).

 

[DaBruinz]

I wasn't talking about the past. I was talking about the future. Do we know what they offered him moving forward? What if NOTHING is what they offered him?

Bill has always been known to let go of some top players early rather than pay them later, but that philosophy seems to have led to more of the quality players leaving than before.

I love when people throw this sort of sh*t out there. It shows that they haven't bothered to pay attention.

It's been reported by BOTH SIDES that they were negotiating. Do you understand what that means? Clearly NOT. So this idea you're tossing out there that "NOTHING" is what they offered isn't supported by ANYTHING a logical thinking person would proffer based on the numerous articles that have come out from both sides since April.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I love when people throw this sort of sh*t out there. It shows that they haven't bothered to pay attention.

It's been reported by BOTH SIDES that they were negotiating. Do you understand what that means? Clearly NOT. So this idea you're tossing out there that "NOTHING" is what they offered isn't supported by ANYTHING a logical thinking person would proffer based on the numerous articles that have come out from both sides since April.

Lol…did you write this while actually rattling a cage?

 

[Ring 6]

Their chances are worse without him.

Maybe. I’d say their chances of contending are worse without him but the chances of winning a championship might go up without him since he seems to not be able to come through on big games. He’s a primary reason the get there and also a primary reason they can’t finish the job.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The pretzels some people will tie themselves into to excuse every bad move. Other teams pay big money at positions of need: "desperate". Bill does it then it is save rebuilding.

The notion that people on here weren't complaining when we paid a guard $14 mill in a rebuilding year is ridiculous. We have lost our three best players in the last two years with nothing to show for it. Brady, Thuney, and now Gilmore all walk and we net a 6th round pick but don't you dare claim Bill bungled any of the roster management as of late.

Now it’s getting into whataboutism.

Okay, they made bad moves, but whatabout the Chiefs signing Frank Clark!? Terrible overpay.

Okay, it was misplayed with Gilmore, but whatabout the Cowboys releasing Jaylon Smith!? Would you rather have that?

And of course, Bill is praised for all of his great moves and his foresight, but now how can anyone ever really know anything without hindsight? Everything is random and unknowable. NFL strategy is a tale told told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/...fl-teams-didnt-like-stephon-gilmore-2020-tape

To those wondering why he didn't garner a higher pick:
View attachment 36431

So wait..is that supposed to own the BB critics? Again, the question from “the Bill haters” was why not trade Gilmore for the best offer in the 2020 offseason, since Brady is gone, you need draft capital, and the Brady split would be a lot more logical if they were hitting the reset button.

And remember…a year too early is better than a year too late…was the motto during championship window seasons. Just look at all the controversy from 2017-19.

So, seems like a no-brainer? No, because despite the BS spin, the Patriots were clearly as all-in as possible in 2020. Not only did they punt on a Gilmore trade, with teams interested according to reports, they increased his salary by $5M.

So now, an article saying Gilmore’s play was slipping in 2020, meaning his trade value was wasted, and he was “a year too late”, is supposed to make this all look better somehow? It‘s the opposite. And Bill telling everyone how they had no chance to compete, and fans buying it? No way.

The short moves made in 2020 (Slater, McCourty, Thuney, Gilmore decision) were actually a major deviation of their typical MO. Despite not having Brady, they went completely into an all-in mode trading short-term wins for long-term missed opportunities. Out of character to shun future considerations at the very time you’d most need to look at future considerations. More and more this looks like Bill wanted to have a **** measuring contest in 2020 with Brady, and showing the team wouldn’t miss a step under him.