Gholston: 42" VJ at OSU pro day

[primetime]

Some teams picking ahead of us may see him as a 4-3 end. Gholston himself has said that's his preferred position. Don't be so quick to stereotype prospects.

I can rail off names of success stories from every conference from the SEC to the Ivy to America East. That doesn't change the fact that a higher percentage of highly touted Big 10 players seem to bust than from any other conference (for the same reason that Big 10 contenders are always knocked off by teams from the SEC, it's just not that good a conference).

 

[patsfaninpa]

I can rail off names of success stories from every conference from the SEC to the Ivy to America East. That doesn't change the fact that a higher percentage of highly touted Big 10 players seem to bust than from any other conference (for the same reason that Big 10 contenders are always knocked off by teams from the SEC, it's just not that good a conference).

Here is a list of Big 10 1ST Round picks the last 3 years. I'm not saying the big 10 is better than the SEC. They are not. But, this list shows you cannot make blanket generalizations.

05
B.Edwards - wr - Pro Bowler
E.James - de - Bust
Marlin Jackson - db - good player
Luis Castillo - DT - good player

06
AJ Hawk - LB - Chance to be pro-bowler very soon.
D. Whitner - S - Good player.
C.Greenway - lb - Hurt knee rookie. Ok last year. Too early to tell
B.Carpenter - lb - Hasn't done anything yet. Little too early to write off. I wouldn't mind us giving him a shot.
T.Hali -de - Good player
L.Maroney - rb - Good player.
S.Holmes - wr - Good player
N.Mangold - c - Good player

07
J.Thomas - T - Pro bowler as a rookie
L.Brown - T - Will be a good player
T.Ginn Jr. - wr - Drafted too high. Stupid Dolphins. But, won't be a bust.
Leon Hall - CB - Too early to tell.
A.Spender - olb/de - Good prospect. I think will be a player.\
A.Gonzalez - wr - Going to be a great fit in Colts system.

 

[PonyExpress]

Here is a list of Big 10 1ST Round picks the last 3 years. I'm not saying the big 10 is better than the SEC. They are not. But, this list shows you cannot make blanket generalizations.

05
B.Edwards - wr - Pro Bowler
E.James - de - Bust
Marlin Jackson - db - good player
Luis Castillo - DT - good player

06
AJ Hawk - LB - Chance to be pro-bowler very soon.
D. Whitner - S - Good player.
C.Greenway - lb - Hurt knee rookie. Ok last year. Too early to tell
B.Carpenter - lb - Hasn't done anything yet. Little too early to write off. I wouldn't mind us giving him a shot.
T.Hali -de - Good player
L.Maroney - rb - Good player.
S.Holmes - wr - Good player
N.Mangold - c - Good player

07
J.Thomas - T - Pro bowler as a rookie
L.Brown - T - Will be a good player (not so sure about that myself. He was a disappointment last season, not what they were expecting)
T.Ginn Jr. - wr - Drafted too high. Stupid Dolphins. But, won't be a bust.
Leon Hall - CB - Too early to tell. (had a very good rookie season 5 INTs, 14 PDs, all-rookie team)
A.Spender - olb/de - Good prospect. I think will be a player.\
A.Gonzalez - wr - Going to be a great fit in Colts system.

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[patsfaninpa]

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Biggest busts from Big 10 have been Wisconsin/PSU guys. E.James/W.Bryant M.Haynes
and J.Kennedy. Lots of dl. I think Levi will be a good player. Maybe, not worthy of 5 overall. But, another year with R.Grimm should help. The Ohio St players for the most part have been outstanding. I don't count injuries as busts. A guy like C.Rogers from MSU was a total jerk. But, he never really got on the field because of those achilles injuries. Long list of wr's who are jerks who became good players.

I would be surprised if Gholston, J.Long, R.Mendenhall dont' become good players. You might reach for a guy like T.Porter or J.Hardy from Indiana. They could be busts. But, a lot of teams probably don't have those guys as 1st rounders. So, if a team reaches for a player who most people don't think should be drafted that high. I blame the team not league they played in. For example; Miami with T.Ginn. He should have been a late 1st rounder. Most posters here liked A.Gonzalez better. Blame the Fish.

 

[marcus]

I could absolutely see a trade with the KC chiefs to move up 1 spot ahead of the Jets

 

[VJCPatriot]

Don't think that was a reach for Revis. Revis is as good as any young cb in the NFL. I wish the Pats had moved up for him. In the end we wasted all those second day picks.

Eh? None of those second day picks and the Pats 1st round pick combined would have added up to vaulting ahead of pick 15. I think this is extremely wishful thinking.

 

[VJCPatriot]

IF Gholston is truly a blue chip player in the eyes of the Patriots,

they should trade their #1 and the Oakland #3 to K.C. to get him.

He might be the cornerstone of a revamped defense. Mike

Vrabel could continue tutoring him.

I wouldn't move up, just based on some nice workouts. Gholston looks a little raw and needs to be converted to OLB. I also think Groves might have the edge in speed/explosion. I'd be satisfied with Groves in a slight trade down. If Gholston is there at #7 then I wouldn't complain if the Pats decide to take him. But I'm not begging them to move up either. Don't forget that the further up you move in the top 10, the more $$ you have to shell out for the rookie contract.

 

[PonyExpress]

Eh? None of those second day picks and the Pats 1st round pick combined would have added up to vaulting ahead of pick 15. I think this is extremely wishful thinking.

I didn't say that was all I would have offered for Revis. The 2007 3rd rdr would have helped nicely. It would have been well worth it.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I didn't say that was all I would have offered for Revis. The 2007 3rd rdr would have helped nicely. It would have been well worth it.

Pick value Chart
http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

Pick #14 (required to leapfrog the Jets) - 1100 points

Pick #24 (pick used on Meriweather) - 740 points

Pick values of bottom of round 3 pick, plus ALL second day paicks - 116, 44, 28.4, 15.6, 3

Total value = 947 points, or 153 points short. You would be short the value of another high 3rd round pick or the Pats 2nd round pick to match up values.

So basically you wanted to trade the Patriots ENTIRE draft for Revis. I'm sorry, Mike Ditka, when did you change your name and start posting here?

Like I said, wishful thinking. The fact is that second day picks have VERY LITTLE value. And people bemoaning how they were wasted and dreaming that they would even come close to allowing us to jump the Jets for Revis are dreaming.

Again to summarize in case you missed it with all the numbers flying by, the combined value of ALL the Pats second day picks was approximately 91 points. Not even worth a 3rd rounder, and nowhere near enough to make a serious move up. Not to mention, if we don't have a 4th rounder for the Moss trade, that move never happens and he's still rotting in Oakland instead of breaking record books with the Pats. And oh our 2nd round pick was gone to pay for Welker.

Hmm would I rather have Revis, or Meriweather, Moss, and Welker? Tough one, lemme get back to you on that...

 

[JoePats]

You could have traded 24 and 28 for 14 and 45. As it turns out that would have meant no first-round pick this year. But nobody knew that at the time.

 

[PonyExpress]

Pick value Chart
http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

Pick #14 (required to leapfrog the Jets) - 1100 points

Pick #24 (pick used on Meriweather) - 740 points

Pick values of bottom of round 3 pick, plus ALL second day paicks - 116, 44, 28.4, 15.6, 3

Total value = 947 points, or 153 points short. You would be short the value of another high 3rd round pick or the Pats 2nd round pick to match up values.

So basically you wanted to trade the Patriots ENTIRE draft for Revis. I'm sorry, Mike Ditka, when did you change your name and start posting here?

Like I said, wishful thinking. The fact is that second day picks have VERY LITTLE value. And people bemoaning how they were wasted and dreaming that they would even come close to allowing us to jump the Jets for Revis are dreaming.

Again to summarize in case you missed it with all the numbers flying by, the combined value of ALL the Pats second day picks was approximately 91 points. Not even worth a 3rd rounder, and nowhere near enough to make a serious move up. Not to mention, if we don't have a 4th rounder for the Moss trade, that move never happens and he's still rotting in Oakland instead of breaking record books with the Pats. And oh our 2nd round pick was gone to pay for Welker.

Hmm would I rather have Revis, or Meriweather, Moss, and Welker? Tough one, lemme get back to you on that...

Hmmm. You may have a point, I guess I was overvaluing some of those picks. Still, they wasted 109 tradeable draft points last season, the equivalent of a late 3rd rd pick, on drek (4.28, 6.6, 6.28, 7.1). If they had invested that toward Revis instead (1.24+3.27+ 4.28, 6.6, 6.28, 7.1) it would have left them only 115 points shy of landing him, the equivalent of an early future 3rd rdr, while still keeping #28, trading for Moss + Welker, and drafting compensatory selections Oldenburg, Hairston, Hilliard, and Elgin. Hypothetically speaking, would you rather have Meriweather and our early 3rd rd pick in 2008, or Revis? Right now I'd have to go with Revis. Hopefully Revis will go bust and Meriweather will turn into Ed Reed, and all these questions will be moot.