Extend Newton

[DropKickFlutie]

I was really glad to see Brady didn't have 4 straight weeks with a pick6 last week. I fully expect him to have a great statistical year surrounded by a loaded offense.

.

 

[PatsWSB47]

If you dare say anything negative about Tom Terrific that’s trashing him to some.

Thing is, Brady is the GOAT but he is also still human. That means he’s not perfect. There are those who worship him and cannot abide anyone pointing out his imperfections. You’ve got to realize that’s their problem not yours, just ignore them.

Just calling him TomTerrific exposes you and makes the rest of what you said rather hollow. you're also taking sides with sb1 who is constantly mocking and laughing at Brady mistakes throughout his career and give likes and winners to every post that critical of him. Its sb1 that needs to be ignored

 

[Bill Lee]

When Brady was Cam's age, the Pats did pay him at the top of the market. If Cam stays healthy, the Pats will take care of him. If he keeps taking the coaching, he'll be a top 5 QB in the league. There's no way the Pats let that walk out the door.

Your post is self contradicting, you named two ways the Pats let him walk out the door.

There are others, such as Cam asking for a lot of money and Bill deciding he needs to replace a lot of aging players more than he needs to pay Cam a lot of money.

None of us know how this is going to play out.

you guys realize that Bradys discounts in his later years were not the norm right? That is never going to happen again.

Unless you guys think bill is going to roll the rest of his career with journeymen QB's and have 5-6 win game seasons he HAS to pay the QB. If he ended up keeping Jimmy G look what he got

Yeah, there's no evidence that we could find another great QB cheap...

Except we just got former MVP and first overall draft pick Cam Newton on a $1.75M plus incentives contract, one that lets us franchise him next year.

people are delusional to think its so easy to find a successful QB in the NFL and we can just cycle through guys and pay them below market values. Thats key to never winning a superbowl again. but even the Fitzpatricks and Andy Daltons will cost you more than we paid brady.

Yet you just saw BB was prepared to do a season with nothing more than Stidham and Hoyer at QB.

People seem to still not understand how BB approaches team building.

People still seem to be listening to BSPN and sports talk narratives too much.

The evidence is there, just look for it.

 

[Ring 6]

Well. Evidently there is a point continuing. Since you still believe all the BS you made up about. Maybe you could show me how I haven’t shown all your “theories” are fantasy. You said “show you”. I did.

You gave your opinion. I disagree with your opinion. It’s as simple as that.
Pretending your opinion is fact causes silly back and forths that are pointless and no one cares to read.
It’s ok to disagree. The 12 people who read this back and forth aren’t going to determine your boys legacy.

 

[JackBauer187]

You gave your opinion. I disagree with your opinion. It’s as simple as that.
Pretending your opinion is fact causes silly back and forths that are pointless and no one cares to read.
It’s ok to disagree. The 12 people who read this back and forth aren’t going to determine your boys legacy.

No you disagreed. Then said I made stuff up that didn’t fit your narrative. Then you were going to “teach me” how to evaluate players. Because seeing them play every snap was nothing compared to stats without context(or excuses as you call them). Good Times.

You seem to have no problem going “back and forth” when you think you’re right. But suddenly, you just want to call it a difference or opinion. LOL. Whatever gets you through the day.

 

[RIpats88]

Your post is self contradicting, you named two ways the Pats let him walk out the door.

There are others, such as Cam asking for a lot of money and Bill deciding he needs to replace a lot of aging players more than he needs to pay Cam a lot of money.

None of us know how this is going to play out.

Yeah, there's no evidence that we could find another great QB cheap...

Except we just got former MVP and first overall draft pick Cam Newton on a $1.75M plus incentives contract, one that lets us franchise him next year.

Yet you just saw BB was prepared to do a season with nothing more than Stidham and Hoyer at QB.

People seem to still not understand how BB approaches team building.

People still seem to be listening to BSPN and sports talk narratives too much.

The evidence is there, just look for it.

its BSPN sports talk narrative that says the QB is the most important position in the NFL? Name me a team who has won with Cr@p at QB. Yeah, teams who replace their QB every couple years are SOO successful in the NFL. If the seahawks had refused to pay wilson so they could keep the ageing LOB they would be in the tank right now.

and using cam newton as an example we can keep doing this over and over is a poor argument. It was pure luck that we got cam newton for $1.75m and he is performing the way he is. The chances of that happening again are slim. Journeymen are making more.

So, in your opinion if we went with Jimmy G instead of brady once Jimmys contract year was up Bill shouldve traded him/released him because we shouldnt pay a QB 25-30million$??? Because that is essentially what you are saying...teams like KC are wrong to pay Mahomes what they are paying him because they are expensive...

I think alot of peoples opinions here would change if we were 0-2 with Hoyer at QB. People are spoiled because of bradys discounts and the pure luck that Cam newton took a discount to prove hes healthy. As if both are the norm.

 

[Bill Lee]

its BSPN sports talk narrative that says the QB is the most important position in the NFL? Name me a team who has won with Cr@p at QB. Yeah, teams who replace their QB every couple years are SOO successful in the NFL. If the seahawks had refused to pay wilson so they could keep the ageing LOB they would be in the tank right now.

and using cam newton as an example we can keep doing this over and over is a poor argument. It was pure luck that we got cam newton for $1.75m and he is performing the way he is. The chances of that happening again are slim. Journeymen are making more.

So, in your opinion if we went with Jimmy G instead of brady once Jimmys contract year was up Bill shouldve traded him/released him because we shouldnt pay a QB 25-30million$??? Because that is essentially what you are saying...teams like KC are wrong to pay Mahomes what they are paying him because they are expensive...

I think alot of peoples opinions here would change if we were 0-2 with Hoyer at QB. People are spoiled because of bradys discounts and the pure luck that Cam newton took a discount to prove hes healthy. As if both are the norm.

It's BSPN sports talk to do what you said, "he HAS to pay the QB". There's no strong correlation between what you pay and what you get. As noted Brady took less than he was worth. Cam is getting less than he's worth. Indeed many journeymen are getting more than they are worth. The idea is to find bargains, which is how BB approaches the problem. Some times he gets burned, but he has more job security than anyone else in the league, so he's going to take chances. Contrast to the Bears who have a dicey young QB in Trubisky and an overpaid vet in Foles. They do this nonsense because they have no job security. They follow the BSPN narrative of taking a risk on a young QB AND paying Foles to avoid the criticism that they won't take risks and they won't pay for a QB. It's nonsense, they are going nowhere.

I think BB would open up on spending for QB if he felt he was one player away from being a SB level team but the reality of our team is that we're like the 24th oldest team in the NFL and we have a lot of holes currently and more to come next year once we figure out who will want to be back and who will be too expensive to resign. Cam is a feel good story but this isn't a team that's going to make a SB run, and that's what BB is after.

I think the JG hypothetical would play out as above: if we were one player away from being a SB level team and that one player was JG he'd try hard to sign him. Maybe we were in that position a few years ago, but if you take a good look at this team now it doesn't feel that way. Given that's the case, I doubt BB would want to have a large slice of the salary cap tied up in one position. He'd build up the rest of the team to a near-SB level then bring in the best QB he could afford.

 

[sb1]

Finding good quarterbacks is NOT easy. If Newton's health stays good, NE definitely needs to heavily consider it. I'm all in.

Big if. If you’re NE when do you make that bet that it will? Should be interesting.

 

[RIpats88]

It's BSPN sports talk to do what you said, "he HAS to pay the QB". There's no strong correlation between what you pay and what you get. As noted Brady took less than he was worth. Cam is getting less than he's worth. Indeed many journeymen are getting more than they are worth. The idea is to find bargains, which is how BB approaches the problem. Some times he gets burned, but he has more job security than anyone else in the league, so he's going to take chances. Contrast to the Bears who have a dicey young QB in Trubisky and an overpaid vet in Foles. They do this nonsense because they have no job security. They follow the BSPN narrative of taking a risk on a young QB AND paying Foles to avoid the criticism that they won't take risks and they won't pay for a QB. It's nonsense, they are going nowhere.

I think BB would open up on spending for QB if he felt he was one player away from being a SB level team but the reality of our team is that we're like the 24th oldest team in the NFL and we have a lot of holes currently and more to come next year once we figure out who will want to be back and who will be too expensive to resign. Cam is a feel good story but this isn't a team that's going to make a SB run, and that's what BB is after.

I think the JG hypothetical would play out as above: if we were one player away from being a SB level team and that one player was JG he'd try hard to sign him. Maybe we were in that position a few years ago, but if you take a good look at this team now it doesn't feel that way. Given that's the case, I doubt BB would want to have a large slice of the salary cap tied up in one position. He'd build up the rest of the team to a near-SB level then bring in the best QB he could afford.

I guess we just disagree. the QB position is the most important position in the NFL. You seem to be acting like QB is no different than signing a DB or a DE or a Linebacker. being a Quarterback away from a SB level team is HUGE. Doesnt matter how good the rest of your team is if you dont have the QB. Thats why the QB's winning the superbowl every year are guys like Mahomes, brady, manning etc.

sure we can fill the other holes in the draft/FA. but without a Quarterback thats worthless. All the top teams in the NFL have elite QB's. Its not a position you play around with if you find a guy who can play. good Quarterbacks also mask deficiencies in the roster.

using Brady taking discounts in his late 30s/40s and us signing Cam newton for cheap are just really bad examples to use "we can get an elite QB for cheap!" Bradys discounts were not the norm and Cam newton signed for cheap because of injuries/the pandemic didnt allow teams to work him out/give him physicals. He signed with the patriots to prove his worth. You have to pay the QB because its just the market rate for quarterbacks.

making those two examples to show how easy it is to underpay at the QB position is just a poor argument. Or maybe we roll with the likes of stidham/hoyer and win 5-6 games a year and become the Jets/dolphins signing journeymen and drafting QB's hoping they turn out decent.

if Cam newton stays healthy and Bill believes he gives them the best chance to win a superbowl in the next few years he will pay him.

 

[Bill Lee]

I guess we just disagree. the QB position is the most important position in the NFL. You seem to be acting like QB is no different than signing a DB or a DE or a Linebacker. being a Quarterback away from a SB level team is HUGE. Doesnt matter how good the rest of your team is if you dont have the QB. Thats why the QB's winning the superbowl every year are guys like Mahomes, brady, manning etc.

sure we can fill the other holes in the draft/FA. but without a Quarterback thats worthless. All the top teams in the NFL have elite QB's. Its not a position you play around with if you find a guy who can play. good Quarterbacks also mask deficiencies in the roster.

using Brady taking discounts in his late 30s/40s and us signing Cam newton for cheap are just really bad examples to use "we can get an elite QB for cheap!" Bradys discounts were not the norm and Cam newton signed for cheap because of injuries/the pandemic didnt allow teams to work him out/give him physicals. He signed with the patriots to prove his worth. You have to pay the QB because its just the market rate for quarterbacks.

making those two examples to show how easy it is to underpay at the QB position is just a poor argument. Or maybe we roll with the likes of stidham/hoyer and win 5-6 games a year and become the Jets/dolphins signing journeymen and drafting QB's hoping they turn out decent.

if Cam newton stays healthy and Bill believes he gives them the best chance to win a superbowl in the next few years he will pay him.

Interesting, you say you have to pay top of market rates to get an elite QB, I give you two examples of BB paying below market rates to get elite QBs, then you tell me my examples aren't good enough.

BB has been playing chess for twenty years, you say he needs to go back to checkers because that's the game everyone else is playing. I don't think it's going to go down that way.

 

[Brotherblues]

absolutely extend him. This stud has been carrying our untalented offense on his back. Imagine if cam was given speed and athleticism at WR and RB?

Nah, absolutely wait at least 6 games. Or 8. Or whatever the longest it is they can wait and still dump something towards this year's cap and save on future caps. He's not gonna be any cheaper now compared to a month or 2 from now.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Big if. If you’re NE when do you make that bet that it will? Should be interesting.

To me, Cam looks healthy. With that said, there have been a couple times he's been hit that I thought he might have gotten injured, but I can't remember the exact plays. I'd say if he's still playing like this after week 6, that should be evidence that indicates he's healthy. Your opinion?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Nah, absolutely wait at least 6 games. Or 8. Or whatever the longest it is they can wait and still dump something towards this year's cap and save on future caps. He's not gonna be any cheaper now compared to a month or 2 from now.

Cam is the only athlete we have on offense. We need him.

 

[RIpats88]

Interesting, you say you have to pay top of market rates to get an elite QB, I give you two examples of BB paying below market rates to get elite QBs, then you tell me my examples aren't good enough.

BB has been playing chess for twenty years, you say he needs to go back to checkers because that's the game everyone else is playing. I don't think it's going to go down that way.

I just think those examples are not normal or sustainable. other than Brady how many elite QB's do you see take below market deals? And cam newtons situation is not normal or something that will happen every offseason. Everyone thought cam was washed which is why they got him for so cheap.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Interesting, you say you have to pay top of market rates to get an elite QB, I give you two examples of BB paying below market rates to get elite QBs, then you tell me my examples aren't good enough.

BB has been playing chess for twenty years, you say he needs to go back to checkers because that's the game everyone else is playing. I don't think it's going to go down that way.

If we rolled with Stidham or Hoyer there LIKELY would have been no shot for this unit to go anywhere. Hoyer never had the chance to be the starter despite being told he may have had a chance and if Hoyer did win the starting job then that just shows how bad Stid is. I see your point about Bill's way of doing things, but Belichick isn't a stupid man. Eventually you need quarterbacks to step up in clutch situations and win you the game.

 

[Ring 6]

No you disagreed. Then said I made stuff up that didn’t fit your narrative. Then you were going to “teach me” how to evaluate players. Because seeing them play every snap was nothing compared to stats without context(or excuses as you call them). Good Times.

You seem to have no problem going “back and forth” when you think you’re right. But suddenly, you just want to call it a difference or opinion. LOL. Whatever gets you through the day.

We do disagree. You did make stuff up.
Not going back and forth, continuing to tell you us having a discussion is a waste of time. Somehow you can’t seem to get that.

 

[RASTAN99]

The longer you wait the more expensive it gets

Watson just got $74M guaranteed and $39M/yr on average...

...do you think Cam would sign for less than that?

 

[RASTAN99]

Newton is much more static in his run and so far has been pretty good at protecting himself and not milking every yard outside the redzone.

That runs completely counter to the Cam is the most abused QB in the entire history league because of his size and the ref's hate him rhetoric which has been propagated by Camther fans for years.

What are we to believe?

 

[RASTAN99]

Disagree my dude

I think Newton's smart enough to understand that Coaching like we have is not Dima a Dozen. Even him has to be surprised about how much he is producing. Including the fact that he is a mobile QB (so bad coaches will lead to more hits), durability issues, age issues, previous lack of interest in FA and, pehaps more importantly: The fact that we are contenders already, even in "rebuild" mode, is something to behold.

A team that needs a QB is normally a team in shambles. Newtons been part of some ****ty things and he never won a SB. He is already HoF worthy, but where does he have the best chance to become a 1st ballot undispusted?

New England

Never underestimate Cam.

 

[RASTAN99]

The agent's job is to do what the player wants. It comes down to what the player wants. If Cam wants to cash in he's probably playing in another jersey next year. If he has other priorities maybe we can get something done.

He went on the radio this week and said going forward it's not about the cash --- it's about the respect.

Cam needs to find a way to stick with the Patriots for the foreseeable future.