Elite Defense if no major injuries?

[Jrik83]

Mayo is much better in coverage than Hightower. But I could definitely see Hightower as a DL if the Pats roll out a 5-2-4.

Mayo's coverage skills are EXTREMELY overstated. But I do have to admit when I said barely better there was some hyperbole involved.

 

[strngplyr]

The only thing that scares me is that linebacker depth. It really could undermine everything.

One of Collins or Hightower, whichever BB trusts less, IS the first line of depth. We will very rarely have 3 LBs on the field, Mayo is the only 100% snap guy of the group. The other 2 will fight for playing time as the 2nd linebacker while we once again spend close to 70% in sub packages with more DBs and less LBs.

We could still use another solid LB in there, but depth isn't as bad as most say it is as they address it from a pure 4-3 standpoint, when we are really a 4-2 much more often.

 

[mayoclinic]

What interests me is their plans for Ryan at safety. It looks just by roster design to be a two high safety look but that doesn't make a ton of sense given Revis and Browner's skill sets. I think they're looking to disguise, disguise, and disguise some more. It will very interesting to see what their various permutations of sub coverages turn out to be.

I agree. Their secondary screams Cover-1 and Cover-3. I think they'll do a lot of switching guys around, dropping a robber down from a Cover-2 shell, etc. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[SalemPats]

This is a top 5 defense skill wise and throw in the mad genius in BB this will be the best defense in the league. Just think about it, we can play man on the outside with Revis and hopefully Browner allowing BB to throw multiple packages.

 

[Marqui]

This is a top 5 defense skill wise and throw in the mad genius in BB this will be the best defense in the league. Just think about it, we can play man on the outside with Revis and hopefully Browner allowing BB to throw multiple packages.

I'm still worried about their pass rush though. They only have one reliable edge rusher on the roster, they're screwed if god forbid Jones go down really.

 

[ashley]

I think potentially this could be the best defense we've had here in a long time. The one area I'm a little concerned about is the safety opposite McCourty. I am really hoping Harmon wins the position and we don't have to go back to Chung as our starter. I also hope we can get a more consistent pass rush this year.

 

[captain stone]

No decent 2nd Safety + No 3rd DE = No Elite Defense.

 

[mayoclinic]

No decent 2nd Safety + No 3rd DE = No Elite Defense.

So presumably you don't think the Seahawks will have an elite defense either:

Defensive ends

Starters: Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril

Backups: Greg Scruggs and Benson Mayowa, CASSIUS MARSH, Kenneth Boatright

Seattle defense, position by position - Seattle Seahawks Blog - ESPN

Also, their safety depth behind Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor: Jeron Johnson, Chandler Fenner, DeShawn Snead, Dion Bailey, Terrance Parks. It doesn't exactly inspire fear and awe, does it?

Of course, even ignoring Will Smith, Michael Buchanan, Zach Moore and (I admit this one is far-fetched) Jake Bequette, there's the possibility of Dont'a Hightower, Armond Armstead and Dominique Easley all getting some snaps at DE. Seems a little stronger to me than what Seattle's got.

 

[Kontradiction]

I agree. Their secondary screams Cover-1 and Cover-3. I think they'll do a lot of switching guys around, dropping a robber down from a Cover-2 shell, etc. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

I think Cover-1 rat is going to be primarily the coverage that you'll see the vast majority of the time with McCourty being the single deep safety between the hashes. I can see the team going Cover-2 heavy in games vs. the Lions and Packers, for example. But they have the personnel to play some heavy Cover-1 while also disguising coverages in the Cover-2 and Cover-3.

 

[condon84]

Our pass rush will absolutely make or break this defense this year.

Yup.

It doesn't matter who we have back there. If we play a good QB and he gets comfortable because of the lack of pressure, then our D will give up yards in the passing game.

We really need Chandler to make the step to elite level.

We can't be dependent on a bunch of guys coming back from major injuries (Wilfork, Kelly, Easley, Armstead, Smith) and Buchanon (kills me that people are high on him -- what did he do?).

 

[TriplecHamp]

Top 3 if they remain healthy. I have 0 concern about Mayo coming back from a pectoral injury. Wilfork and Kelly are somewhat questionable though.

 

[lurker1965]

Yes.

90% of defenses will be elite if they can avoid injuries. Depth is what separates them. I like our back-ups.

 

[Marqui]

It doesn't matter who we have back there. If we play a good QB and he gets comfortable because of the lack of pressure, then our D will give up yards in the passing game.

Uh, no. Our dominant coverage is actually going to make the pass rush get to the quarterback faster, haven't you heard?

 

[Gymrat]

I'll take elite starters over depth any day. Depth could mean tons of mediocrity. No question this defense will come down to finally having a pass rush. That's y its so necessary for key players to get slightly stronger n quicker. Hightower needs Lil better burst n quickness to get better in coverage and overall. Collins with an additional 10-12 lbs of muscle has pass rush skill set of a 3-4 explosive rush olb who will b playing 4-3 olb spot. When he blitzes no offense will have n answer for that. He is n X Factor. With Browner on the te he can blitz quite often. Jones is the centerpiece here. The pass rush will go as he does. He is almost there. He may not have twitch of a Playmaker but he has length flexibility n decent quickness with long arms. It is all so so important he adds some muscle and sheds a couple lbs to get that half step of quickness and power which WILL translate to more explosion. He is so so close to being elite. He was neutralized by single blocking to often. Just slightly more quickness n power will take care of that. Browner saw the importance of playingbat optimal muscle/fat ratio. It took him from the cfl to the pro bowl. Chandler needs to make friends with him. Throw Easley in the mix n thisbis a very disruptive unit. Easley also has has felt the benefit from a good diet/nutrition program to magnify benefits in the weightroom. He is currently targeting to get back to that lean 295-300 he likes playing at. Acl injuries prevent leg workouts resulting in minor muscle mass loss. Another player to show Jones the benefits. I know he train's with his brother which is excellent for endurance,flexibility and hand use but his brother can't add muscle or else he will be fighting bigger guys. Much bigger Lil. Jones has a giant frame to add muscle without over bulking and losing quickness/athleticism. When Mayock envisioned Jones being dominant, it was with Jones playing at 275-280. Mayock saw he had the frame for it.

 

[Gymrat]

I'll take elite starters over depth any day. Depth could mean tons of mediocrity. No question this defense will come down to finally having a pass rush. That's y its so necessary for key players to get slightly stronger n quicker. Hightower needs Lil better burst n quickness to get better in coverage and overall. Collins with an additional 10-12 lbs of muscle has pass rush skill set of a 3-4 explosive rush olb who will b playing 4-3 olb spot. When he blitzes no offense will have n answer for that. He is n X Factor. With Browner on the te he can blitz quite often. Jones is the centerpiece here. The pass rush will go as he does. He is almost there. He may not have twitch of a Playmaker but he has length flexibility n decent quickness with long arms. It is all so so important he adds some muscle and sheds a couple lbs to get that half step of quickness and power which WILL translate to more explosion. He is so so close to being elite. He was neutralized by single blocking to often. Just slightly more quickness n power will take care of that. Browner saw the importance of playingbat optimal muscle/fat ratio. It took him from the cfl to the pro bowl. Chandler needs to make friends with him. Throw Easley in the mix n thisbis a very disruptive unit. Easley also has has felt the benefit from a good diet/nutrition program to magnify benefits in the weightroom. He is currently targeting to get back to that lean 295-300 he likes playing at. Acl injuries prevent leg workouts resulting in minor muscle mass loss. Another player to show Jones the benefits. I know he train's with his brother which is excellent for endurance,flexibility and hand use but his brother can't add muscle or else he will be fighting bigger guys. Much bigger Lil. Jones has a giant frame to add muscle without over bulking and losing quickness/athleticism. When Mayock envisioned Jones being dominant, it was with Jones playing at 275-280. Mayock saw he had the frame for it.

 

[Joker]

do you have Tourettes Syndrome or what?...almost every one of these indecipherable posts is followed by a doppelganger...click once on "post reply"...

 

[OhExaulted1]

This is an appropriate thread. Including the If on the subject. That's a point I'm thinking about recently.

I've seen too many "if" and "healthy", "when healthy" conditions when referring to this defense next season, we could even extend to the offense since Amendola, Gronk and Edelman are injury prones and it seems that Dobston too. But let's only focus on defense right now.

I'm really worried about this defense, everybody counts on this "we have a top 5 defense without the injuries", but can we really count on this no injury condition? I don't think so. Actually, I think it's more likely to get devastated by injuries again than to stay completely healthy or with minor injuries. And this time we could not say we didn't see it coming.

Adding another injury prone guy in Easley is a huge gamble, I love the guy and his upside but after the Ras Island fiasco I can't help but hope his knees hold this time. Otherwise the setback will be tough to digest.

Sorry to be a harbinger of bad tidings, but I agree with varjao. I believe the injury catastrophe looms too large to honestly believe this is a top 5 D. As stated on paper and healthy it's unquestionably a "yes", but I, too, see it coming. I think middle of the pack in PA will be the end result.

Also as stated the offense is susceptible to injury. The less the offense is on the field and moving the chains will have a direct impact on the number of defensive snaps we endure, which increases the risk of injuries.

 

[OhExaulted1]

do you have Tourettes Syndrome or what?...almost every one of these indecipherable posts is followed by a doppelganger...click once on "post reply"...

Whoa!?!

 

[captain stone]

So presumably you don't think the Seahawks will have an elite defense either:

Seattle defense, position by position - Seattle Seahawks Blog - ESPN

Also, their safety depth behind Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor: Jeron Johnson, Chandler Fenner, DeShawn Snead, Dion Bailey, Terrance Parks. It doesn't exactly inspire fear and awe, does it?

Of course, even ignoring Will Smith, Michael Buchanan, Zach Moore and (I admit this one is far-fetched) Jake Bequette, there's the possibility of Dont'a Hightower, Armond Armstead and Dominique Easley all getting some snaps at DE. Seems a little stronger to me than what Seattle's got.

Gotta admit, Seattle's depth chart doesn't look too deep right now. They might experience a falling back to the pack from what they enjoyed last season. Unfortunately, that doesn't make me feel much better about our own situation at DE, SS & OLB.

 

[patfanken]

Some comments on the comments:


1. I STRONGLY agree with those who think that this could be the strongest Pats D in a decade.

2. I wonder why some people who fear our "lack of a pass rush" have forgotten that last year's injured and jury-rigged front 7 ranked #6 in the league in sacks. Its like the lack of a pass rush in the AFCCG just erased the previous 17 games out of existence.

3. Those who fear a lack of a rush should instead be all excited about the additions of Easly and Armstead. the return of Kelly and Mayo, the likely improvements by the rookies like Collins, CJones, Siliga, Buchanon, etc, PLUS the potential use of guys like Hightower on the rush. That is a HUGE improvement on a Forcing unit that was already a top 10 pass rushing D. Optimism not fear should be the predominant emotion here.

4. Kontra - You and Mayo bring up a very subtle, but interesting position issue to watch this TC. I can see a strong case being made to have Hightower as the Mike, with Mayo as the Will, and Collins at the Sam. But on the other hand I can make an equally strong case to put Mayo at the Mike, with Hightower at the Sam and Collins at the Will. In the latter example you would get more use of Hightower coming off the edge as an impact pass rusher

5. The key this year is going to be position flexibility. In that there are really only going to be 2 positions in passing situations. rushers and defenders. So while we might not have 3 LB's on the field the majority of the time, that doesn't meant there won't be 3 "LB's on the field. Except in those cases Collins and/or Hightower might have their hands in the dirt

Think about it. Revis will be at CB - Mayo at LB, and Vince/Siliga in the interior. That's about all you can depend on. Everyone else couid end up anywhere. Everyone has some position flexibility. Its a HUGE advantage, and I'm getting more excited about as I think about the possibilities.

6. Like I've been saying for a while, the old position labels aren't going to be as accurately descriptive this season. We can expect DT's playing DE, LB's playing DE and DE's playing LB's When you think about it, there aren't too many of our top defensive players on the front 7 who DON'T have a lot of position flexibility. Guys like Collins are the rule rather than the exception. Do NOT underestimate the problems its going to cause opponents offenses when its hard to get a read on what defense they will see based on the personnel on the field. They won't be able to predict an alignment based simply on personnel

7. For most of the last decade the Pats defense has been something the Pats have had to overcome to win games. It's been a defense which bent and bent. Its been one that with blue smoke and mirrors somehow managed to be one of the better scoring D's and not much else. This year could change all of this. Not just because of the "stars" or "starters", but because of the potential of the entire unit. Granted its not perfect, but a LOT more perfect than any unit we've seen in the last 10 years.