Don't Ever Tell Me Belichick is More Valuable Than Brady Ever Again

[supafly]

Way to nix the bread's contributions. Wow.

You ever see BB make his famous PB & J while in Cleveland? I think there’s a vid somewhere.

 

[supafly]

Be fair Bob. Those defenses were just what the doctor ordered for a rookie QB. SB 36 was an awesome defensive effort against the greatest show on turf.

True, Tony, but it does seem like Belichick is a different coach altogether when it comes to the overall gameplans and prep for the SB.

8 games, all within one score. I think 6/8 have seen the opposition score within the final 2-3 minutes. Questionable calls on both sides of the ball—almost as if he’s somehow intimidated by the stage (hate to even type that). Some of it can be chalked up to good competition, but not all of it. We’ve seen Belichick absolutely destroy teams that were 11-2, 12-2 in the regular season like it was nothing.

All of a sudden he’s a jovial, approachable, well dressed coach who’s taking days off to see badly played basketball games and speaking to how confident he is in his team and their preparation. Every. Single. Time. I’m a huge Belichick supporter, but he gets a little weird during the most important 2 weeks of the season, and that’s still surprising to me, even after all of these years.

 

[Tony2046]

You ever see BB make his famous PB & J while in Cleveland? I think there’s a vid somewhere.

I have seen it.

Not sure what this is but it has the BB PB&J video attached.

 

[supafly]

I have seen it.

Not sure what this is but it has the BB PB&J video attached.

I remember having lots of family in the area at the time and they absolutely hated him. If they only knew!

 

[Ivan]

Belichick's system wasn't successful before Brady got to Foxborough though.

You’re right, Belichick should have had all of his organizational work done by the end of his first month. What a slacker.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

I still feel brady could win a title with let's say the donkeys. He could win elsewhere.

Yes Brady could win elsewhere. And Belichick could win Super Bowls with QB's other than Tom Brady.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

I just think that the game has changed. There's better qb's than there were when Brady entered the league. It's more of an offense/pass happy league. I just don't think Belichick has adjusted. I'm not saying the game has passed him by but man I always feel good about our offense. Not so warm and fuzzy feeling about our defense.

Don't think it's about the game passing BB by. It's about a lack of athleticism on the defensive side of the ball. Look at their LB's. Hightower is always hurt and the rest are marginal backups. Safeties, nothing special. Have NOBODY to edge rush. They had to sign 80 year old Thug Harrison at the end of the year to find a pass rush. If Jacksonville had Nick Foles the Patriots would have lost to them at home and never made the SB. They need to be defense heavy with this upcoming draft/FA season.
Need some athletes.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I think the most obvious thing is neither of them would have this type of success without each other. And one might argue neither would still be around if it weren't for the other.

Belichick can affect more of a game than Brady simply because he is the HC. If you include running plays where Brady has to diagnose the defense at the line, he was involved in around 49% of all Patriots plays in 2017. Belichick is involved in 100% of plays, and even one step further, can also select which guys he has on the roster. He has ultimate control.

That means Belichick has more input and control during a game than Brady. But that's true of all teams, whether they are successful or not. Chuck Pagano had more input and control during a game than Andrew Luck too.

Belichick is unique because he holds both the HC title and the final say for transactions as a GM (even though it's not officially his title). But that doesn't mean that job has to be the same person. Plenty of teams have separate groups handling it and do fine.

And it's also worth noting that after getting fired by the Browns, Belichick started out 5-13 with a Pro Bowl QB in Bledsoe. If things hadn't turned around with Brady that second season, would Belichick even be around, especially considering how Carroll was let go?

On the Brady side, there are several great QBs who have won championships. But there's not many with Brady's resilience. For all the talk of Rodgers's highlights, he struggles to play from behind.

Brady's mental toughness and ability to gather a team together is unique and special. I watched him at Michigan during the Drew Henson experiment. Henson would start, Brady would come in the 2nd quarter, and the hot hand would go the rest of the way. Same team, they'd struggle and fall behind with Henson, and Brady would have to dig them out of the holes. It's difficult to measure this, but it's there.

But Brady wouldn't have even made any other roster in the league. He was fortunate to land in the perfect spot for him. At the same time, Belichick was lucky to have him. That 2001 season ends quite differently if it's John Friesz or Michael Bishop who was retained after 2000.

So I don't think you can say which percentage belongs to who. It's a symbiotic relationship, and you could argue neither man would reach the heights they did without the either. I actually go one step further and think neither would have made it past year 4 without each other. One couldn't have succeeded without the other, and vice versa. So while I concede Belichick has more influence on the team overall, it wouldn't matter at all if it wasn't for Brady.

 

[luuked]

I still feel brady could win a title with let's say the donkeys. He could win elsewhere.

So after hearing for 10 years how difficult it is to integrate a WR properly because a) he needs to learn Erhardt-Perkins to be on the same page as Brady and b) be in the circle of trust so Brady actually throws him the ball, you are saying that none of this matters and a 41y old Brady could even switch systems, all receivers and win a title ?

 

[captain stone]

Yes, his brilliant work over and over patching holes with a decimated roster is really horrible. The guy would win exec of the year every year and people like you still wouldn’t get it...

You mean the same guy who:

Chose Glas-IR Dowling with the first pick of Day 2 of the 2011 draft, when there were trades to be made for it?

Chose Tavon Wilson, who had essentially no grade from anywhere, with the 48th overall pick and Jake the Fake Bequette with the 90th pick of the 2012 draft?

Chose Aaron Dropson & his 8" hands with the 59th overall pick, ahead of Keenan Allen, in the 2013 draft?

Chose twice-damaged-goods Dom Easily (& his lousy attitude) with the 29th overall pick of the 2014 draft?

Chose Glitch Richards with the 64th overall pick and, adding insult to injury, GeeNo Gruesome with the 97th pick of the 2015 draft?

Chose little Cyrus the Virus Jones with the 60th overall pick and Fat Vinnie (& his questionable work ethic) Valentine with the 96th pick of the 2016 draft?

Chose Boney Tony Garcia with the 85th overall pick of the 2017 draft?

You mean that guy?

For Executive of the Year?

Thanks for the laugh; I needed it.

 

[Ivan]

You mean the same guy who:

Chose Glas-IR Dowling with the first pick of Day 2 of the 2011 draft, when there were trades to be made for it?

Chose Tavon Wilson, who had essentially no grade from anywhere, with the 48th overall pick and Jake the Fake Bequette with the 90th pick of the 2012 draft?

Chose Aaron Dropson & his 8" hands with the 59th overall pick, ahead of Keenan Allen, in the 2013 draft?

Chose twice-damaged-goods Dom Easily (& his lousy attitude) with the 29th overall pick of the 2014 draft?

Chose Glitch Richards with the 64th overall pick and, adding insult to injury, GeeNo Gruesome with the 97th pick of the 2015 draft?

Chose little Cyrus the Virus Jones with the 60th overall pick and Fat Vinnie (& his questionable work ethic) Valentine with the 96th pick of the 2016 draft?

Chose Boney Tony Garcia with the 85th overall pick of the 2017 draft?

You mean that guy?

For Executive of the Year?

Thanks for the laugh; I needed it.

Name the Coach or GM who has won more or had more success this century?

You can’t, they don’t exist.

14 division titles

8 Conference Championships

5 Lombardi’s

Your turn.

 

[Tony2046]

True, Tony, but it does seem like Belichick is a different coach altogether when it comes to the overall gameplans and prep for the SB.

8 games, all within one score. I think 6/8 have seen the opposition score within the final 2-3 minutes. Questionable calls on both sides of the ball—almost as if he’s somehow intimidated by the stage (hate to even type that). Some of it can be chalked up to good competition, but not all of it. We’ve seen Belichick absolutely destroy teams that were 11-2, 12-2 in the regular season like it was nothing.

All of a sudden he’s a jovial, approachable, well dressed coach who’s taking days off to see badly played basketball games and speaking to how confident he is in his team and their preparation. Every. Single. Time. I’m a huge Belichick supporter, but he gets a little weird during the most important 2 weeks of the season, and that’s still surprising to me, even after all of these years.

OK. I have to toss my theory into the ring. I'll call it the Patriots Playoff Handicap Theory or PPHT (Puh-HuhT) for short.

I think the close games are a product of how he manages the salary cap. He basically always has a long term spending philosophy or IOW he doesn't splurge for any given year while the other teams are either on a great rookie QB contract or have gone "all in" for that particular season. Additionally other teams have had a higher draft pick average over the previous five years. Combine those two factors together and I would guess that the Patriots have had a Cap Space handicap (20 million?) against most teams they face in the playoffs. Not all teams but most. I do recognize that some teams draft well and are well coached.

So I think BB spends for consistency while some others spend for the big bang or go for broke. The key factor is Brady which pushes the handicap balance back towards center.

I think I'll dig into that during this offseason.

 

[Tony2046]

You mean the same guy who:

Chose Glas-IR Dowling with the first pick of Day 2 of the 2011 draft, when there were trades to be made for it?

Chose Tavon Wilson, who had essentially no grade from anywhere, with the 48th overall pick and Jake the Fake Bequette with the 90th pick of the 2012 draft?

Chose Aaron Dropson & his 8" hands with the 59th overall pick, ahead of Keenan Allen, in the 2013 draft?

Chose twice-damaged-goods Dom Easily (& his lousy attitude) with the 29th overall pick of the 2014 draft?

Chose Glitch Richards with the 64th overall pick and, adding insult to injury, GeeNo Gruesome with the 97th pick of the 2015 draft?

Chose little Cyrus the Virus Jones with the 60th overall pick and Fat Vinnie (& his questionable work ethic) Valentine with the 96th pick of the 2016 draft?

Chose Boney Tony Garcia with the 85th overall pick of the 2017 draft?

You mean that guy?

For Executive of the Year?

Thanks for the laugh; I needed it.

Boy. Nine bad picks in 18 years?? That's just unforgivable.

VV was productive at the end of the 2016 season btw. We'll see how that goes this season.

Cyrus the Virus (that's catchy) was starting to get over his yips last season so I still have hope for him.

Aaron Dropson showed some flashes until his foot injury but yeah he flamed out.

Garcia? You've got to give him more than a year before you can call him a bust.

 

[PatriotSpy]

I think the most obvious thing is neither of them would have this type of success without each other. And one might argue neither would still be around if it weren't for the other.

Belichick can affect more of a game than Brady simply because he is the HC. If you include running plays where Brady has to diagnose the defense at the line, he was involved in around 49% of all Patriots plays in 2017. Belichick is involved in 100% of plays, and even one step further, can also select which guys he has on the roster. He has ultimate control.

That means Belichick has more input and control during a game than Brady. But that's true of all teams, whether they are successful or not. Chuck Pagano had more input and control during a game than Andrew Luck too.

Belichick is unique because he holds both the HC title and the final say for transactions as a GM (even though it's not officially his title). But that doesn't mean that job has to be the same person. Plenty of teams have separate groups handling it and do fine.

And it's also worth noting that after getting fired by the Browns, Belichick started out 5-13 with a Pro Bowl QB in Bledsoe. If things hadn't turned around with Brady that second season, would Belichick even be around, especially considering how Carroll was let go?

On the Brady side, there are several great QBs who have won championships. But there's not many with Brady's resilience. For all the talk of Rodgers's highlights, he struggles to play from behind.

Brady's mental toughness and ability to gather a team together is unique and special. I watched him at Michigan during the Drew Henson experiment. Henson would start, Brady would come in the 2nd quarter, and the hot hand would go the rest of the way. Same team, they'd struggle and fall behind with Henson, and Brady would have to dig them out of the holes. It's difficult to measure this, but it's there.

But Brady wouldn't have even made any other roster in the league. He was fortunate to land in the perfect spot for him. At the same time, Belichick was lucky to have him. That 2001 season ends quite differently if it's John Friesz or Michael Bishop who was retained after 2000.

So I don't think you can say which percentage belongs to who. It's a symbiotic relationship, and you could argue neither man would reach the heights they did without the either. I actually go one step further and think neither would have made it past year 4 without each other. One couldn't have succeeded without the other, and vice versa. So while I concede Belichick has more influence on the team overall, it wouldn't matter at all if it wasn't for Brady.

Didn't he go to Kraft right after he was drafted and tell him he was the best decision the organization ever made. This is before he even knew what the system was about. Brady would have made it work anywhere.

 

[PatriotSpy]

Name the Coach or GM who has won more or had more success this century?

You can’t, they don’t exist.

14 division titles

8 Conference Championships

5 Lombardi’s

Your turn.

I'm shocked you didn't tell him to go troll somewhere else.

 

[Ivan]

Boy. Nine bad picks in 18 years?? That's just unforgivable.

VV was productive at the end of the 2016 season btw. We'll see how that goes this season.

Cyrus the Virus (that's catchy) was starting to get over his yips last season so I still have hope for him.

Aaron Dropson showed some flashes until his foot injury but yeah he flamed out.

Garcia? You've got to give him more than a year before you can call him a bust.

Captain Stone is the most delusional poster on this site. For years and years he has scoured the draft sites while devouring every cliche on them, “ plays to the whistle” lean frame, no sand in the pants,” “ too tight in the hips, poor recovery speed.......” blah blah blah blah. He eats that sh.t up like it’s gospel and believes that any pick Belichick makes that isn’t a Captain Stone certified BINKY is a terrible pick. The only person who has been wrong more about the Patriots under Belichick is Borges.

 

[Ivan]

I'm shocked you didn't tell him to go troll somewhere else.

Unlike you he’s not a troll, he’s just a draftnik Patriot fan who is exceptionally delusional. You, on the other hand, are a troll who is only here to try to stir sh.t up. There’s a big difference.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Didn't he go to Kraft right after he was drafted and tell him he was the best decision the organization ever made. This is before he even knew what the system was about. Brady would have made it work anywhere.

He did, but lots of guys make big boasts. For some, that sounds like confidence, for others, that sounds like arrogance, and it really is the same thing, just a matter of if they end up backing it up or not.

The Patriots were the only team to call Michigan head coach Lloyd Carr asking about Brady. And when you listen to Pioli talk about the team they inherited, it's even more amazing that they drafted him as a 4th QB, let alone kept him on the roster that first year.

While the Patriots were high on Brady, former Patriots general manager Scott Pioli explained that the team was a mess and they needed a lot of things but not a quarterback.

"When we took over the 2000 team we had a roster of 42 players and were $10.5 million over the salary cap," Pioli said on The Dan Patrick Show. "We had to get down to 39 players to get under the cap...We liked Brady a little bit. But the one thing we had with [just] 39 players on the roster was we had three quarterbacks."

How The Patriots Drafted A Hall Of Fame Quarterback In The 6th Round

They had so many needs, they were over the cap, but they had a Pro Bowl QB in Bledsoe, a veteran in Friesz, and a developmental guy in Bishop. It's incredible they kept their 6th-round 4th-string QB when you look back at it.

 

[archstanton543]

You mean the same guy who:

Chose Glas-IR Dowling with the first pick of Day 2 of the 2011 draft, when there were trades to be made for it?

Chose Tavon Wilson, who had essentially no grade from anywhere, with the 48th overall pick and Jake the Fake Bequette with the 90th pick of the 2012 draft?

Chose Aaron Dropson & his 8" hands with the 59th overall pick, ahead of Keenan Allen, in the 2013 draft?

Chose twice-damaged-goods Dom Easily (& his lousy attitude) with the 29th overall pick of the 2014 draft?

Chose Glitch Richards with the 64th overall pick and, adding insult to injury, GeeNo Gruesome with the 97th pick of the 2015 draft?

Chose little Cyrus the Virus Jones with the 60th overall pick and Fat Vinnie (& his questionable work ethic) Valentine with the 96th pick of the 2016 draft?

Chose Boney Tony Garcia with the 85th overall pick of the 2017 draft?

You mean that guy?

For Executive of the Year?

Thanks for the laugh; I needed it.

Every GM misses on players. Every. Single. One. And chances are you'll miss more often than you'll hit. It's just the nature of the game.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

You mean the same guy who:

Chose Glas-IR Dowling with the first pick of Day 2 of the 2011 draft, when there were trades to be made for it?

Chose Tavon Wilson, who had essentially no grade from anywhere, with the 48th overall pick and Jake the Fake Bequette with the 90th pick of the 2012 draft?

Chose Aaron Dropson & his 8" hands with the 59th overall pick, ahead of Keenan Allen, in the 2013 draft?

Chose twice-damaged-goods Dom Easily (& his lousy attitude) with the 29th overall pick of the 2014 draft?

Chose Glitch Richards with the 64th overall pick and, adding insult to injury, GeeNo Gruesome with the 97th pick of the 2015 draft?

Chose little Cyrus the Virus Jones with the 60th overall pick and Fat Vinnie (& his questionable work ethic) Valentine with the 96th pick of the 2016 draft?

Chose Boney Tony Garcia with the 85th overall pick of the 2017 draft?

You mean that guy?

For Executive of the Year?

Thanks for the laugh; I needed it.

This is like mocking Ted Williams because he didn't get a hit over 59% of the time.

Expecting perfection is asinine and ridiculous. There's no context to any of this. It's like pointing out every single Brady interception as proof he sucks.

I mean, new rules say we're not supposed to call each other names, so I won't say you're an idiot. But this is a really dumb post.

If you think Belichick truly sucks, use some context, compare it to other teams, put together something meaningful. Or just do the rest of us a favour and delete your account.