Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[crawhammer]

Or maybe, just maybe, BB heeded his conscience and acted on principle in the wake of last week's events. Even someone like you who hates the man should leave the door open a crack for that possibility.

I don't care. Bill's conscience is irrelevant to me. I don't hate him either... like I want him to get syphilis. No, I think he's overrated and undeserving of all the football related accolades. Brady made him who some think he is... the GOAT of coaching. Also, he's clearly a jackass. But that's not the point. I'm merely stating the obvious, in this situation he had one choice... deny the award. The only way he could have accepted it is if he also was resigning as HC of the NEP.

The wording within the statement... the decision has been made... is an obvious copout.

 

[crawhammer]

Just noticed the Admin Ian shutdown the thread dedicated to this MOF topic and advised the membership he's discouraging any contentious political convo so I wouldn't have added to the topic here had I read that first. I'd rather this thread remain open for any further discussion RE: Brady vs Belichick so I'm out on any further MOF comments (which I'm sure is very disappointing jk).

 

[Tony2046]

I don't care. Bill's conscience is irrelevant to me. I don't hate him either... like I want him to get syphilis. No, I think he's overrated and undeserving of all the football related accolades. Brady made him who some think he is... the GOAT of coaching. Also, he's clearly a jackass. But that's not the point. I'm merely stating the obvious, in this situation he had one choice... deny the award. The only way he could have accepted it is if he also was resigning as HC of the NEP.

The wording within the statement... the decision has been made... is an obvious copout.

You're a troll. Plain and simple. One of the best things I like about BB is his well documented relationship with Jim Brown. Bill has always been about more than just the game. His decision to not accept the award falls completely in line with his character that he's established over the last thirty years.

People like you just suck.

#Crack Spanker should be banned.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Bill's not a god? Whoa now... ease up on the man.

Ok so this isn't George Washington we're talking about here. Seriously, lead by example? You mean like Spygate? Or how about throwing his franchise quarterback under the bus for Deflate gate? Or the way he humiliated Butler? A player who spared him great embarrassment by closing out SB 49. And the media by the way doesn't push back at all on Bill despite his obvious contempt and constant opposition.

Here's what Belichick did, or rather what some nebulous entity did with the decision... what he had to do. Accepting this award, or anything from Trump, a dirty snot rag, would be career suicide. You can't figure that out?

Revisionist history here.

Bill took full accountability for “Spygate,” as absurdly overblown as it was. He turned over all the tapes and cooperated, admitted he had done it. If he had perhaps thrown an assistant or cameraman under the bus (see Josh McDaniels in Denver, for example, along with virtually every powerful person facing the criticism of a scandal) then maybe he wouldn’t still be marred by the media 13 years later. Spygate was overblown crap and you know it.

Did you miss the Deflategate press conference when Bill tried to prove the balls couldn’t have been deflated (and was right about the air pressure)? I don’t know how you could say he threw Brady under the bus when he specifically defended him, went through the entire ball preparation process, showed how weather effects air pressure, etc. Where did he say Brady was guilty, besides through ESPN mind readers on Twitter?

I can’t stand the Butler benching either, but humiliating Butler is far from the concern there. If anything, it sure seemed like he protected Butler (an impending free agent) with an extreme “what happens in house stays in house” stonewalling of the media and public, though my guess is Bill would have gotten off a lot easier on criticism if he’d leaked Butler’s behavior.

It seems like you didn’t read Bill’s statement regarding the MOF if that’s your takeaway. The statement is not what you’d write if you’re only concerned about your career or popularity because it takes a specific stand when it doesn’t need to.

 

[crawhammer]

You're a troll. Plain and simple. One of the best things I like about BB is his well documented relationship with Jim Brown. Bill has always been about more than just the game. His decision to not accept the award falls completely in line with his character that he's established over the last thirty years.

People like you just suck.

#Crack Spanker should be banned.

Hey dude, you're the one with your panties in a bunch. Calling me a troll. And your obtuse takes on my username. The irony of your post probably skids across your flush noggin.

 

[Tony2046]

Hey dude, you're the one with your panties in a bunch. Calling me a troll. And your obtuse takes on my username. The irony of your post probably skids across your flush noggin.

You're a troll plain and simple. Everyone knows that you're trying to rile up the forum with your hawt take bull shyt.

You're not that smart.

#ban the crack slapper.

 

[Tunescribe]

I don't care. Bill's conscience is irrelevant to me. I don't hate him either... like I want him to get syphilis. No, I think he's overrated and undeserving of all the football related accolades. Brady made him who some think he is... the GOAT of coaching. Also, he's clearly a jackass. But that's not the point. I'm merely stating the obvious, in this situation he had one choice... deny the award. The only way he could have accepted it is if he also was resigning as HC of the NEP.

The wording within the statement... the decision has been made... is an obvious copout.

The statement was fine and you're reaching to find fault in it to fit your disdainful narrative. There's nothing suggesting "copout," he made clear that his decision wasn't just about him personally but encompassing who and what he represents. Thus, "the decision has been made" weighing those responsibilities.

 

[Biffins]

This was my biggest takeaway from this season. Bill might be struggling in the team building aspect in the last few years but the gap between him and the second best coach is a mile long. There is no way this team should have won 7 games with what may be the worst roster in the league top to bottom. Shows how much coaching matters when Bill beats the Chargers 45-0 and the Chargers are more talented at pretty much every single position.

Come on. Just because Brady left? We had the number one defense last year. The NFL DPOY. Solid run game etc. What is this? “BB you have no TE? Oh you mean you whiffed on your draft picks and can’t find any in FA? In that case 5-11 record is ok”.

We had an overall pretty good football team. Hell we were 10-1 last year at one point and talking about all-time great defense. Suddenly 5 games later “guys our roster is worst in league top to bottom” COME ON!!

Frankly if we hadn't lost to the Dolphins, gotten the bye, avoided a bad match-up with Titans. Chiefs would have played the Titans and beaten them (like they did in AFC Championship), And I bet we beat the Chiefs at home or have a good shot at it. We might have lost to Ravens in AFC Championship but playoffs would have been very different.

BB’s coaching sucked this year. The roster wasn't THAT bad.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I love the Felger take on the pooch kick. Patriots are up 14-0 and try and catch the Eagles off guard with a trick kick that does not work. Eagles take over at their own 41. After 2 plays they are looking at 3rd and 10 before completing a short pass that goes for 20 yards. They later score on that drive. The Eagles subsequently score on a blocked punt, 99 INT return and an 80 year old punt return yet somehow the narrative was that pooch kickoff that gave them about 15 free yards was somehow the turning point is beyond funny. I would have thought bad special teams play was the key but that would be harder to bash the coach on.

There is a thing called momentum and it’s real. At that point, the patriots had all the moment and philly was not existant. This kick gave Philly life and the pats were chasing all day after that.

Why keep a team in a game with a play that has such a low success percentage?

 

[Biffins]

There is a thing called momentum and it’s real. At that point, the patriots had all the moment and philly was not existant. This kick gave Philly life and the pats were chasing all day after that.

Why keep a team in a game with a play that has such a low success percentage?

Arrogance?

 

[Doctor DDS]

There is a thing called momentum and it’s real. At that point, the patriots had all the moment and philly was not existant. This kick gave Philly life and the pats were chasing all day after that.

Why keep a team in a game with a play that has such a low success percentage?

That is just a convenient after the fact second guess. That kick barely gave the Eagles anything beyond 16 yards. Pats were one play away from forcing a 3 and out. If the Pats had stopped them and they punted would it still have been the play of the game? That kicked somehow impacted the blocked punt at the end of the half or the other big plays? The Eagles scored on the pooch kick drive yet went 3 and out on their next drive. IS the kick momentum still alive or do we need to wait for the block punt for it to come back into play? Why isn't the on-side kick by Washington this past weekend the defining play of that game as they had just scored? What about the Saints on-side kick in the Superbowl or is that one OK because it worked? The Patriots lost that game due to the 3 generally fluky big plays and none of them had anything to do with that pooch kick.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

That is just a convenient after the fact second guess. That kick barely gave the Eagles anything beyond 16 yards. Pats were one play away from forcing a 3 and out. If the Pats had stopped them and they punted would it still have been the play of the game? That kicked somehow impacted the blocked punt at the end of the half or the other big plays? The Eagles scored on the pooch kick drive yet went 3 and out on their next drive. IS the kick momentum still alive or do we need to wait for the block punt for it to come back into play? Why isn't the on-side kick by Washington this past weekend the defining play of that game as they had just scored? What about the Saints on-side kick in the Superbowl or is that one OK because it worked? The Patriots lost that game due to the 3 generally fluky big plays and none of them had anything to do with that pooch kick.

you can’t take those play in a vacuum and say that if we don’t on side kick they would still happen. The kick change the completion of the game. We don’t know what would have happen if they don’t on side kick. The eagle were drowning and instead of keeping them under the water Bill gave them some air and they survive.

The decision was ridiculous. You are just a Bill excuse maker. But hey we saw this year he doesn’t need your help, he can make excuses all by himself.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I would add that if it worked Bill would have been called a genius so in my view it is only fair to put blame at his feet when it didn’t

 

[Doctor DDS]

you can’t take those play in a vacuum and say that if we don’t on side kick they would still happen. The kick change the completion of the game. We don’t know what would have happen if they don’t on side kick. The eagle were drowning and instead of keeping them under the water Bill gave them some air and they survive.

The decision was ridiculous. You are just a Bill excuse maker. But hey we saw this year he doesn’t need your help, he can make excuses all by himself.

I do not need to make excuses for the greatest coach of all time. His achievements speak for themselves. It must fill you with pride to consistently deride the best hire in Patriots history. If only you were the one to make the coaching hire way back in 2000 we would never have had to endure this stretch. Can't imagine how you must have treated Red Auerbach back in the day.

With thousands of plays every year I do not seek out specific examples of plays that did not work to bash either BB or Brady. Some work and some don't. At the end of the day they put together the most successful run in the history of the league and both were instrumental in making it happen. We are now at the point where we are seeking specific regular season plays from years ago to not just bash the coach and the play but to give it additional powers where a failed on-side kick directly led to 2 special team touchdowns and a pick 6. I assume the naysayers are also accumulating a list of plays that actually worked (though I understand that it may take time as they were so few and far between). Look forward to seeing them.

I find it embarrassing that on a Patriots site we have a bunch of alleged fans who spend 95% of their posts bashing this team. Why follow them it everything blows?

 

[RIpats88]

This thread is a perfect example why some posters trash oon brady in the tampa thread. Now I am supposed to believe that Bill is a horrible coach and should be fired.

People forget coaching and much as brady lead to alot of our superbowl wins. For the first 3 brady wasnt the GOAT QB yet and we're won on defense.

2014 - without coaching butler to make that play the Patriots likely lose. Yes brady brought them back. But it was a combo of brady and coaching where they won.

2016 - without bills coaching of "running the hills" the team probably doesn't have the stamina to outlast atlanta. Yes, brady brought them back in it but it was a combo of coaching and brady that won it.

2018 - this win was on defense all the way plus a combo of brady's great one drive to put it in.

So it's both. I don't get how people can call Bruce Arians an idiot all the time and how his coaching is hurting brady and then say Bill was carried by brady's coattails

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I find it embarrassing that on a Patriots site we have a bunch of alleged fans who spend 95% of their posts bashing this team. Why follow them it everything blows?

Ok, the moment we criticize Bill Belichick god of football, we are alleged fan got it!

 

[Lagaffe_07]

This thread is a perfect example why some posters trash oon brady in the tampa thread. Now I am supposed to believe that Bill is a horrible coach and should be fired.

Bill is the greatest coach ever but he is not perfect as a HC and he is far from perfect as GM.

Half of the posters in this thread would jump off a bridge if Bill told them too.

Good for you if you have faith in Bill no matter what. I don’t but that doesn’t make me an alleged fan. I am not in the blind « in Bill we trust » thing.

i have no doubt about his coaching abilities but I do think sometimes his ego make him do some stupid stuff. What rub me the wrong way is that we are quick to call him a genius when stuff work but when stuff don’t it is everybody’s fault but his and you can’t criticize him otherwise you’re not a true fans.

I don’t want Bill fired now but if in 3 years we don’t have a winning season, I think it will be time to move on. There could be a time when Kraft could evaluate that Bill cannot coach anymore and wants move on one year early rather than one year late

 

[Doctor DDS]

Bill is the greatest coach ever but he is not perfect as a HC and he is far from perfect as GM.

Half of the posters in this thread would jump off a bridge if Bill told them too.

Good for you if you have faith in Bill no matter what. I don’t but that doesn’t make me an alleged fan. I am not in the blind « in Bill we trust » thing.

i have no doubt about his coaching abilities but I do think sometimes his ego make him do some stupid stuff. What rub me the wrong way is that we are quick to call him a genius when stuff work but when stuff don’t it is everybody’s fault but his and you can’t criticize him otherwise you’re not a true fans.

I don’t want Bill fired now but if in 3 years we don’t have a winning season, I think it will be time to move on. There could be a time when Kraft could evaluate that Bill cannot coach anymore and wants move on one year early rather than one year late

Can I see the posts where people called him a perfect coach or GM? BB has made a ton of mistakes as both of coach and GM and can certainly be second guessed. Much different than post after post bashing him and cherry picking random plays that were unsuccsessful.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Can I see the posts where people called him a perfect coach or GM? BB has made a ton of mistakes as both of coach and GM and can certainly be second guessed. Much different than post after post bashing him and cherry picking random plays that were unsuccsessful.

Honestly this play was brought up in the big picture that he outsmarted himself and his coaching decision at the end of the 2015 cost this team the 1st seed and home field avantage. This play was chosen because it was game dynamic changer play and because it’s from that play that everything fell apart at the end of 2015. He wasn’t cherry picking on a 4th down in the 2nd week of the season. The philly game was a turning point in 2015 and that play was one of the reason why.

 

[Doctor DDS]

Honestly this play was brought up in the big picture that he outsmarted himself and his coaching decision at the end of the 2015 cost this team the 1st seed and home field avantage. This play was chosen because it was game dynamic changer play and because it’s from that play that everything fell apart at the end of 2015. He wasn’t cherry picking on a 4th down in the 2nd week of the season. The philly game was a turning point in 2015 and that play was one of the reason why.

I am familiar with the narrative, I just did not buy it then and do not buy it now. He took a calculated risk that failed in this instance. The downside was pretty low. And like the double pass against the Ravens, the flea flicker to Hogan against the Steelers in the AFCCG or the non time out against the Seahawks he made decisions that he believed were best for the team based off of all the information he had. Some work and some don't. Does not make him a genius or arrogant - just trying to win the game and over time he has done that better than any coach who ever did it.