Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[Ring 6]

Pats are still far from a SB team if he stayed but at least it would have bought them a little time to find the next guy. Wasn’t happening though.

The 2019 patriots were better than the 2020 bucaneers until Brady was injured. If he didn’t abandon the team and stayed healthy they would be right in the same spot. Instead they are stuck with a slug at QB.
Even with Brady at about 50% in the second half of the year they were a 2 seed going into week 17 and the #1 defense in the nfl.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Broncos did it but that was a historic defense. I’d love to see a defense like that here but might be very tough to build. Von Miller was drafted in 2011 and the Patriots kicked the tar out of the Broncos in the playoffs with him on the field. Things were different a few years later.

I know what you are saying but I think the NFL is not same now even as 5 years ago. I don’t think the Broncos would have beaten this year KC even with their 2015 D.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Pats are still far from a SB team if he stayed but at least it would have bought them a little time to find the next guy. Wasn’t happening though.

With him you are in the playoffs and when you are in the playoffs anything can happen. You can be a one and done but you can get lucky one game, have momentum and all of a sudden your in the AFCC. Brady gives you that chance.

In 2018, not many people were predicting that the patriots would win the SB.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Good call, Bob.

 

[TheRainMaker]

we saw last year that good offenses could score points against our number 1 defense. If your team cannot score between 25-30 point a game you will have trouble to keep up with the top teams in the league.

See what happened to the 9ers in the Super Bowl. They eventually cracked. Offense has to score points.

I know what you are saying but I think the NFL is not same now even as 5 years ago. I don’t think the Broncos would have beaten this year KC even with their 2015 D.

The 2015 Broncos would've gotten their a**es kicked at Gillette had Bill not given up on the last two games of the 2015 season. I believe Michael Lombardi said the Pats played not to get injured and weren't afraid to go back to Denver if they had to. Manning would've been throwing ducks in the cold weather at Gillette. Rumor has it one year earlier, Broncos players were dreading going to Gillette if they were to beat the Colts.

Pats needed one win, but couldn't beat a lowly Jets or Dolphins team. One of Bill's biggest blunders.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Good call, Bob.

They released him why again? And the case is still ongoing. Guilty until proven innocent right?

 

[Ring 6]

They released him why again? And the case is still ongoing. Guilty until proven innocent right?

Because he was mentally unstable, was going to be suspended, is a dlck, and wouldn’t back off to make the issue die down.

 

[Boomer B]

The 2019 patriots were better than the 2020 bucaneers until Brady was injured. If he didn’t abandon the team and stayed healthy they would be right in the same spot. Instead they are stuck with a slug at QB.
Even with Brady at about 50% in the second half of the year they were a 2 seed going into week 17 and the #1 defense in the nfl.

Abandoned the team. Take that sh*t elsewhere. Is Brady supposed to take whatever deal Belichick throws at him and say “thank you sir”?

 

[PatsWSB47]

There is absolutely no reason why Brady shouldn't have great numbers given that we know he still has some juice (and some of Brady is still great) with an incredibly stacked offense.

It is actually MORE impressive that Bill managed to give us hope for the playoffs this year!

The two situations are very different. Brady is old, but was shipped to a stacked team, who most of their losses can be attributed to subpar coaching. Bill has the worst QB in the league, the worst WR corps in the league, the worst TE's in the league, a weak front 7, an injury riddled season for his star CB, and we still had a shot for the playoffs up until last week, in a division with two surging teams in the Bills and Dolphins, and a season where we faced the Rams, 49ers, Seahawks, and Chiefs. All of which were close except 9ers and Rams.

It is nothing short of impressive, if not incredible, that this team has managed to keep this season alive for as long as it did.

Lol

 

[crawhammer]

I agree. So imagine where they would be in 2020 if it was a lesser coach. Like say... McDaniels.

0-16 in play for sure. Jets aren’t quite the layup that they looked a couple of weeks ago...

So Brady leaves town and suddenly the team is nose diving toward mediocrity, not winning the division and missing the postseason for the time since Brady wasn't their quarterback (2008 with a totally stacked offense and a soft schedule). And your only defense of Belichick is the team with another head coach would be "for sure" 0-16? A dubious record achieved merely twice in the history of the league.

The schedule was pretty soft last season, and they were mostly floundering by the time of the postseason, but they were 12-4. They likely will finish 7-9 this season. Which is about right, Brady makes about a 5 game difference (as was the case in 2008). Without Belichick they wouldn't have also dropped another 7 games, that's just ridiculous. Especially when this season is probably one of his worst seasons as a head coach.

By the way, in that Tennessee playoff game, the defense got steam rolled when it was obvious Tennessee was just running the same rushing attempts repeatedly. That's partly on the coaching staff (i.e. Bill and Stephen).

 

[crawhammer]

The 2015 Broncos would've gotten their a**es kicked at Gillette had Bill not given up on the last two games of the 2015 season. I believe Michael Lombardi said the Pats played not to get injured and weren't afraid to go back to Denver if they had to. Manning would've been throwing ducks in the cold weather at Gillette. Rumor has it one year earlier, Broncos players were dreading going to Gillette if they were to beat the Colts.

Pats needed one win, but couldn't beat a lowly Jets or Dolphins team. One of Bill's biggest blunders.

Absolutely! Belichick completely coughed up the 2015 season with brutally bad coaching. Deferring to the Jets in overtime, Brady watching from the sideline as the defense promptly lost the game. Then the curious game plan against Miami... Brady handing off to a retired has-been running back. Ugh.

The Super Bowl 52 loss... 90% on Belichick. And I'm being generous. Jordan Richards gets the other 10%... he has got to be Belichick's worst pick ever. Second rounder! Even Kiper was dumbfounded... he didn't have anything on Richards, ESPN had no video, nothing. Crickets.

 

[Kontradiction]

I believe Bill is very aware of what Brady is doing in TB and how that is being compared to his team’s season. And that’s a great thing for the Patriots. That’s motivation to start to do the necessary things to fix this mess. Such as turning to a different direction for help when looking for players to draft here.

It’s got to start by replacing Caserio as the main voice in the room. It’s not a coincidence that the drafts went from very good when that voice was Reese to anywhere from mediocre to terrible when Caserio became that voice. Bill should have let him go to Houston last season.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Even Kiper was dumbfounded... he didn't have anything on Richards, ESPN had no video, nothing. Crickets.

They didn't have much video on Dugger either, only kick returns.

The Super Bowl 52 loss... 90% on Belichick. And I'm being generous. Jordan Richards gets the other 10%...

Bill gets 100% from me. The media said all Super Bowl week that the Eagles were going to target Rowe in the passing game as he graded out as the worst CB in football, yet Bill puts him on their best WR (Jeffrey). This lead to a field goal and TD on the first two drives. Rowe, Richards and Johnson Badhemosi shouldn't be blamed for Bill's poor coaching decisions which let the team down.

His worst defensive game plan of his career.

 

[sb1]

So Brady leaves town and suddenly the team is nose diving toward mediocrity, not winning the division and missing the postseason for the time since Brady wasn't their quarterback (2008 with a totally stacked offense and a soft schedule). And your only defense of Belichick is the team with another head coach would be "for sure" 0-16? A dubious record achieved merely twice in the history of the league.

The schedule was pretty soft last season, and they were mostly floundering by the time of the postseason, but they were 12-4. They likely will finish 7-9 this season. Which is about right, Brady makes about a 5 game difference (as was the case in 2008). Without Belichick they wouldn't have also dropped another 7 games, that's just ridiculous. Especially when this season is probably one of his worst seasons as a head coach.

By the way, in that Tennessee playoff game, the defense got steam rolled when it was obvious Tennessee was just running the same rushing attempts repeatedly. That's partly on the coaching staff (i.e. Bill and Stephen).

With McDaniels or another lesser coach? Oh yeah I believe 1-15 or 0-16 is in play for sure. McD is not a very good head coach as proven by his track record and this is a lousy football team, both on offense and defense. This roster has a starting QB who can’t throw a football, no real alternative on the bench, nothing up front on defense, and to be honest really have no business winning even 6 games as they have to date.

In that playoff game the defense did play much better in the second half of the Titans game. Offense sadly couldn’t do anything.

 

[sb1]

Absolutely! Belichick completely coughed up the 2015 season with brutally bad coaching. Deferring to the Jets in overtime, Brady watching from the sideline as the defense promptly lost the game. Then the curious game plan against Miami... Brady handing off to a retired has-been running back. Ugh.

The Super Bowl 52 loss... 90% on Belichick. And I'm being generous. Jordan Richards gets the other 10%... he has got to be Belichick's worst pick ever. Second rounder! Even Kiper was dumbfounded... he didn't have anything on Richards, ESPN had no video, nothing. Crickets.

100% imo. Lost the Super Bowl. Without a doubt. Richards sucks but he was out there by necessity because of that decision. I thought the Philly Special play call to Brady was moronic but maybe that was Josh that called that.

I hope one day we hear a reason for benching MB that gives us all closure. I hope it’s a good one and that it was worth it. Thanks to that, Brady will never get enough credit for what he did against that Eagles defense. As others have pointed out - maybe this was the moment of the beginning of the end of Brady in NE.

 

[Ring 6]

Abandoned the team. Take that sh*t elsewhere. Is Brady supposed to take whatever deal Belichick throws at him and say “thank you sir”?

They would have matched the deal in a heartbeat. He never gave them a chance.

 

[Foxypats]

This is a stupid debate ! Neither of them is more important than the other. Together they won 6 SB's. Without Bill, Brady would never have won those many, he might not have even got a starting position in the NFL. considering every team passed on him for 6 rounds ! Without Brady, Bill would have not won 6 SB's, I still think he would have won about 2 but that's it.
If Brady gets trounced the 1st round of the playoffs, then he hasn't accomplished much without Bill either. That would be what he did in NE last year, and that wasn't good enough. If Brady doesn't make it pass the WC, then he will consider the year a failure as we consider this year a failure for the Pats. In that case, it is a draw, they both failed without each other !
As of now, I am interesting in seeing this team's re build and excited about what the future might hold. I am not concerned about what Tampa does. Both Brady and Gronk jumped ship, why are some fans so obsessed with what they are doing ? The fans who want to blame Bill for everything may as well start rooting for another team, they don't have an allegiance to the Patriots at all, they were more Brady fans then fans of the team . My focus is on seeing the Pats build a team that can compete again for the AFC East crown and the AFC in general .

 

[Boomer B]

They would have matched the deal in a heartbeat. He never gave them a chance.

BS. He asked for a multi year deal in Aug 2018 and then again in Aug 2019. Bill would only guarantee 1 year. This has been written and discussed by those in the know for a while now.

 

[Boomer B]

This is a stupid debate ! Neither of them is more important than the other. Together they won 6 SB's. Without Bill, Brady would never have won those many, he might not have even got a starting position in the NFL. considering every team passed on him for 6 rounds ! Without Brady, Bill would have not won 6 SB's, I still think he would have won about 2 but that's it.
If Brady gets trounced the 1st round of the playoffs, then he hasn't accomplished much without Bill either. That would be what he did in NE last year, and that wasn't good enough. If Brady doesn't make it pass the WC, then he will consider the year a failure as we consider this year a failure for the Pats. In that case, it is a draw, they both failed without each other !
As of now, I am interesting in seeing this team's re build and excited about what the future might hold. I am not concerned about what Tampa does. Both Brady and Gronk jumped ship, why are some fans so obsessed with what they are doing ? The fans who want to blame Bill for everything may as well start rooting for another team, they don't have an allegiance to the Patriots at all, they were more Brady fans then fans of the team . My focus is on seeing the Pats build a team that can compete again for the AFC East crown and the AFC in general .

Haha. So Brady brings his team to the playoffs, the first time for the Bucs since 07, and Bill misses the playoffs, the first time for the Pats since 08, and to you that’s a draw? Must be fun in this imaginary land you live in.

 

[Ring 6]

BS. He asked for a multi year deal in Aug 2018 and then again in Aug 2019. Bill would only guarantee 1 year. This has been written and discussed by those in the know for a while now.

Rumors, and conjecture.