Day 8 Patriots Training Camp

[Ring 6]

Tuna energized this pathetic excuse for a franchise.

“Energizing” and getting to .500 isn’t hof worthy to me.

Going 10-6 when 2 years prior were 2-14 and making the playoffs after missing it 9 straight years was a miracle with a flawed bunch.

Virtually Every good coach that takes over a bad team can get them to one and done in the playoffs once within the first 3 years.
Parcells first 3 years with that crew was 21-27.

Your comparison of Tuna to PomPom is off base.

Other than the playoff run in 96 Carroll did better. The playoff run, to me, is negated by him checking out after the afccg to become hc Nyj.
If instead of 10-6, 9-7, 8-8 Pete had gone 6-10, 11-5 and lost the Sb and 7-9 would you think that was a lot better?

Is he Pats HoF worthy. I agree - borderline.

Don’t see it.
.500 with 2 playoff wins in 4 years was ok. Not hof. Just my outlook on where the bar should be set.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The only thing that really pi$$ed me off about Parcells was him stealing Curtis Martin.

He brought Belichick with him and drafted a bunch of key players. I don’t care about his fued with Kraft - in fact I agreed with him that Kraft should have stayed out of football affairs. And I’m over the SB31 loss because the Packers in retrospect were an all-time great team. I was happy for Reggie White.

Tuna did some things that I certainly don't appreciate. My loyalty is to the NEP but as I said in another post last night I have a love/hate relationship with Tuna.

 

[RobertWeathers]

“Energizing” and getting to .500 isn’t hof worthy to me.


Virtually Every good coach that takes over a bad team can get them to one and done in the playoffs once within the first 3 years.
Parcells first 3 years with that crew was 21-27.



Other than the playoff run in 96 Carroll did better. The playoff run, to me, is negated by him checking out after the afccg to become hc Nyj.
If instead of 10-6, 9-7, 8-8 Pete had gone 6-10, 11-5 and lost the Sb and 7-9 would you think that was a lot better?




Don’t see it.
.500 with 2 playoff wins in 4 years was ok. Not hof. Just my outlook on where the bar should be set.

You are evaluating Tuna as just a coach.

I am evaluating him as a team builder/GM and HC.

He drafted Drew, Ty, Bru, Willie, Milloy, and a few other players who made key contributions to the franchise. In my book that counts.

 

[Clonamery]

You are evaluating Tuna as just a coach.

I am evaluating him as a team builder/GM and HC.

He drafted Drew, Ty, Bru, Willie, Milloy, and a few other players who made key contributions to the franchise. In my book that counts.

He abandoned those players to search for greener ($) valleys. **** him.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

If Thomas is healthy only Edelman is better.

Pre-achilles tear. We don't know what he will be when he is healthy again.

 

[supafly]

Troy has been there through mini-camp and training camp. He was 1st on the field yesterday. I hope he becomes assistant WR coach this year. ..

I think he did because there was a report that he was working with N’’Keal Harry.

Thanks, guys. I’m glad to see that Brown has been helping out, after all. I remember some rumors a week or so ago, but hadn’t been keeping up since then. He would likely make a great assistant coach, at least to start in 2019.

 

[SBLIII]

Pre-achilles tear. We don't know what he will be when he is healthy again.

There wasn't much competition on the opening market for his services. I have my doubts about him and his health.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Hate to say it but berrios and harry look like busts so far. Why are we so bad at drafting wide receivers? It feels like we should stick with trades when it comes to them.

Who is our wr coach? Dante develops gold ol but our wr coach develops coal

Though everyone is all over you for this post, I think the general premise is relevant.

Let’s start with this: it is way too early to say anything about Harry, and Berrios is a sixth round pick. Also too early to tell on him based on limited information.

BUT...

I keep coming back to this: the last WR the Patriots drafted that was useful in any way: Julian Edelman, TEN years ago. Prior to that: Deion Branch and David Givens (decent) in 2002. What do Moss, Welker, Stallworth, Gaffney, Lloyd, LaFell, Hogan, Amendola, Cooks and Gordon have in common? None were draft picks. The draft picks seen as high potential have been Chad Jackson, Tate, Price, and Dobson, though none were first round picks.

I’ve theorized the Patriots are hesitant to use first round picks because it’t too hard to predict if these kids will develop chemistry and master the offense, as well as a position of high supply (look at all the potential options they bring in every offseason along with the UDFAs.). They’ve gotten by fine by savvy FA moves and trades for known commodities.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

He abandoned those players to search for greener ($) valleys. **** him.

Don't think it was about money. It was ownership. Kraft meddled when he shouldn't have been meddling. He had no business telling Parcells who to draft.

At the end of the day Parcells coming here worked out great if you look at the big picture. He turned around a bad franchise and brought great players along with Belichick.

 

[Ring 6]

You are evaluating Tuna as just a coach.

I am evaluating him as a team builder/GM and HC.

He drafted Drew, Ty, Bru, Willie, Milloy, and a few other players who made key contributions to the franchise. In my book that counts.

He was a coach.
I just don’t give him credit for the fact that he was here when players came in that became good players.
He left because he couldn’t pick the groceries so it’s hard to put him in the hof as a grocery picker.
People give him way, way too much credit for Belichicks success.
The players that came in during his time that significantly contributed to sbs were:
Mcginest because he went 6-10 and got the #4. Pick.
Milloy and bruschi would we’re drafted in the year that he quit because he couldn't make the picks. Both of whom developed under Carroll and bb not Parcells.
And ty law.

That’s not extraordinary.

 

[Ring 6]

Pre-achilles tear. We don't know what he will be when he is healthy again.

Why i said if healthy. No one else has come close to his level of play ever.

 

[1960Pats]

No Parcells...maybe we draft Rick Mirer...maybe no Belichick...maybe the team moves to St. Louis without much fanfare because the team would have likely sucked in 1993-1994...and Kraft wouldn't have been inclined to save the team...

It is what it is. Parcells was a great coach...I don't care what his record is without BB...he has brought a team to a Superbowl 3 times...and the Jets to one AFC title game...

It may pale into comparison with BB, but compare Parcells with other coaches.....

If I am pissed about anything...it was that Parcells kept kicking off to Desmond Howard....then again...had we won that SB...no Belichick/Brady era perhaps...

My last words on the subject. I don't want to further derail the thread.

Parcells was dealing with the Jete as he was coaching the Pats to the SB. Maybe that's why he kept kicking the ball to Howard.

Parcells also takes credit for drafting some of the Pats stars yet at the same time whines about not being able to "shop for the groceries."

Parcells convinced Curtis Martin to leave the Pats.

Parcells tried to keep Belichick from being the HC here.

The Pats teams that Parcells coached were no better and accomplished no more than the teams from the decade before.

That's enough reasons for me.

As far as a great coach, he is, but not that great. I have him at #33 all time.

Btw, if we want to thank anyone related to the Giants for Bill Belichick then we should thank Ray Perkins. He was the one who hired Bill, before he hired Parcells I believe.

Ok, that's it for me. Anyone else can have the last word.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He was a coach.
I just don’t give him credit for the fact that he was here when players came in that became good players.
He left because he couldn’t pick the groceries so it’s hard to put him in the hof as a grocery picker.
People give him way, way too much credit for Belichicks success.
The players that came in during his time that significantly contributed to sbs were:
Mcginest because he went 6-10 and got the #4. Pick.
Milloy and bruschi would we’re drafted in the year that he quit because he couldn't make the picks. Both of whom developed under Carroll and bb not Parcells.
And ty law.

That’s not extraordinary.

They were good when he was here. They went to the SB.

They got Willie because they were 5-11 in 93 because he had to clean up a pile of **** left by Joe Mendes and Chuck Sullivan. Ironically the same record as BB in 2000. Same spring cleaning exercise...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

He drafted Drew, Ty, Bru, Willie, Milloy, and a few other players who made key contributions to the franchise. In my book that counts.

don’t forget Troy Brown and Vinatieri...

 

[Jackson 2]

Radio guys were pimping him for the NEPHOF today, and my first thought was "Do we put Berry in, too, then?".

Sure, how about Chuck Fairbanks?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

My last words on the subject. I don't want to further derail the thread.

Parcells was dealing with the Jete as he was coaching the Pats to the SB. Maybe that's why he kept kicking the ball to Howard.

Parcells also takes credit for drafting some of the Pats stars yet at the same time whines about not being able to "shop for the groceries."

Parcells convinced Curtis Martin to leave the Pats.

Parcells tried to keep Belichick from being the HC here.

The Pats teams that Parcells coached were no better and accomplished no more than the teams from the decade before.

That's enough reasons for me.

As far as a great coach, he is, but not that great. I have him at #33 all time.

Btw, if we want to thank anyone related to the Giants for Bill Belichick then we should thank Ray Perkins. He was the one who hired Bill, before he hired Parcells I believe.

Ok, that's it for me. Anyone else can have the last word.

everything you say is the fault of Kraft. if kraft hadn’t been a typical elitist and instruct Parcells on how to run the team, almost none of those things would have happened. in the end all of his backstabbing was directed at Kraft, not the players or team.

 

[Ring 6]

They were good when he was here. They went to the SB.

They got Willie because they were 5-11 in 93 because he had to clean up a pile of **** left by Joe Mendes and Chuck Sullivan. Ironically the same record as BB in 2000. Same spring cleaning exercise...

Saying executing on a #4 pick isn’t extraordinary to me.
Bruschi was a backup and milloy started part of the season in 1996. They developed much more afterward.

I’m not saying Parcells was awful or did nothing, I’m saying he coached 4 years that were overall mediocre and the assets brought in that contributed to later success was not shockingly more than would be expected.

To me hall of fame isn’t about I can find ways to create an argument that he was pretty good, it’s about unquestionably being head and shoulders above the rest.

This seems to be one of those cases where we disagree and should accept that rather than bust a thread.

 

[RobertWeathers]

don’t forget Troy Brown and Vinatieri...

...and Curtis Martin.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Saying executing on a #4 pick isn’t extraordinary to me.
Bruschi was a backup and milloy started part of the season in 1996. They developed much more afterward.

I’m not saying Parcells was awful or did nothing, I’m saying he coached 4 years that were overall mediocre and the assets brought in that contributed to later success was not shockingly more than would be expected.

To me hall of fame isn’t about I can find ways to create an argument that he was pretty good, it’s about unquestionably being head and shoulders above the rest.

This seems to be one of those cases where we disagree and should accept that rather than bust a thread.

Just to be clear, the disagreement is not over Tuna in the NEP HoF but rather his role and positive impact on the organization.

To say his tenure here is on the same level at Pete Carroll's 3 years is where you and I have a massive disagreement.

 

[Jimke]

Don't think it was about money. It was ownership. Kraft meddled when he shouldn't have been meddling. He had no business telling Parcells who to draft.

At the end of the day Parcells coming here worked out great if you look at the big picture. He turned around a bad franchise and brought great players along with Belichick.

Drafting Terry Glenn was the straw that broke the camel's back and started Parcells
on his quest to leave the Patriots. The Patriots did a similar thing years before when
Chuck Sullivan vetoed contracts negotiated by GM Chuck Fairbanks for Hannah and
Gray that caused Fairbanks to start looking elsewhere.